Airstream parent company Thor signs MOU with ZF to build electric RV

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Henry J Fate

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From what I read months ago, Tesla uses a 45 volt compressor or about 45 volts. No idea how it works whether its staged or uses different voltages etc. Its never been detailed for some odd reason. Other manufactures have not detailed the hvac either. That alone should raise a red flag.

A heat pump would work for ac just fine but in the heat mode, it would be limited to outside temperature and would need electric backup and use it after temps drop below 50f or about. The other issue is humidity. All modern cars use the ac to reduce humidity levels in the cabin for safety and comfort. To do all that with a heat pump doesn't sound very easy but may have been accomplished.

Lou, the hybrid really does not accomplish what I am putting fourth. Plugin hybrids are still hybrids which is an electric assist of a combustion engine. Thats not what I was suggesting however is was an interesting step in a better direction which again was something that was skipped over. I consider that design more of an eco. (engineering change order) Plug in battery ranges are very low or were the last time I looked.

If the goal of electrics is to save the planet, then I would think EVs should be more practical and manufaturers should be clearer on the functionality.

The Tesla is obviousy the beast in the industry but so is the price. Last I looked the model S dual motor was rated at about 425 miles. Thats pretty good even if you factor in the hvac issues. The problem with that is at 60-70k price. It prices out of most peoples budget and probably won't save any money to the consumer once the batteries need replacing. You cannot tow it either and its quite heavy.
 

Henry J Fate

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Read this and then you will be. You can lose 60 miles of range with all the heating or cooling stuff on full. Around 16.5%. But how often do we leave such stuff on for that long?

I have never noticed the difference with the stuff on or off. But I have never been in the situation where the range was an issue in my EV cars. I wish I could say that about my EV motorcycles, but even then, it is rare for it to be an issue in the areas I mostly ride.

-Don- Tifton, GA

Thats a petty good article. It does not include alot of other factors but it does put out food for thought. My estimate of 25% is still a pretty good consideration. Its the fact that they dont like talking about hvac in real terms. That really bothers me. Especially being in south florida heat which could easily use up 25% in traffic or just stop n go.

But for grocery shopping or quick turns its fine. I was looking to use it for local business usage and it just was way to murky.
 

DonTom

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Especially being in south florida heat which could easily use up 25% in traffic or just stop n go.
But range in stop and go traffic in a BEV is excellent. It will gain more range than lost with the A/C.

For an example, the range at 65 MPH on my Tesla M3 is around 320 miles at 65 MPH (level ground, no wind, 70F). It can be better or worse depending on conditions. The range at 38 MPH is around 420 miles on a full charge.

You get your best regen with stop and go traffic.

And many thousands of watts generated as soon as you slow down a little. Perhaps around 50KW if not more, every time you slow down for a red light or stopsign. That is probably enough to help keep your A/C running for quite a while.

-Don- Tifton, GA
 

Viajeros

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One of our most common road trips is about 470 kilometres. We notice the winter range reduction and it usually means an extra 10 or 15 minute charge stop somewhere. But I can’t say I notice much difference between let’s say a spring trip and a summer trip when it’s really hot out and the AC is working. Again I’ll guess at 10 percent but really don’t know. Still the best vehicle we have ever had for this road trip though. The extra horsepower, all wheel drive and auto steer make for a fun and relaxing drive. Good in the snow too.

010698C0-8A5E-44C2-AC43-834BFB371FE0.jpeg
 

DonTom

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It does not include alot of other factors
What type of info. are you looking for? There are many variables with driving an EV. But the very best way to prevent a lot of guesswork is to use wattage to figure out everything.

For an example, my Tesla Model 3 has a 70 KWH battery. IIRC, the A/C is as much as 4kW when running at max. So run the A/C for an hour and your range decreased from having a 70KWH battery to having a 66KWH battery. Now convert back to range, knowing the range is 320 miles at 70 KWH, or 420 miles at 38 MPH. Simple math will give you the exact decrease in range. IOW, 4.6 miles per KWH at 65MPH. So use 66KWH when the A/C is on. 4.6 miles times 66KWH=303 miles range instead of 320. You lost 6% of your range at 65 MPH. You will use a high percentage at a slower speed, but the increase range of the motor will more than make up for it.

In reality, it just isn't the big issue some make out of it. Yeah, there is a decrease. Will you notice the difference? I doubt it. At least I don't.

-Don- Tifton, GA
 

Henry J Fate

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One of our most common road trips is about 470 kilometres. We notice the winter range reduction and it usually means an extra 10 or 15 minute charge stop somewhere. But I can’t say I notice much difference between let’s say a spring trip and a summer trip when it’s really hot out and the AC is working. Again I’ll guess at 10 percent but really don’t know. Still the best vehicle we have ever had for this road trip though. The extra horsepower, all wheel drive and auto steer make for a fun and relaxing drive. Good in the snow too.

View attachment 151254

That's a great car and obviously the best choice out there. The price was a little steep though but the range was probably good enough for what we do. The thing that really did not help was the towing issue. It would need all 4 up and that was alot of weight for our gas mh.
 

DonTom

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But I can’t say I notice much difference between let’s say a spring trip and a summer trip when it’s really hot out and the AC is working.
A very cold battery will give less range than a warm battery with the A/C on. Cold can reduce range by 20%. That is the big issue, not running the A/C. But when cold, add the heater on to that reduction too.

-Don- Tifton, GA
 

Henry J Fate

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What type of info. are you looking for? There are many variables with driving an EV. But the very best way to prevent a lot of guesswork is to use wattage to figure out everything.

For an example, my Tesla Model 3 has a 70 KWH battery. IIRC, the A/C is as much as 4kW when running at max. So run the A/C for an hour and your range decreased from having a 70KWH battery to having a 66KWH battery. Now convert back to range, knowing the range is 320 miles at 70 KWH, or 420 miles at 38 MPH. Simple math will give you the exact decrease in range. IOW, 4.6 miles per KWH at 65MPH. So use 66KWH when the A/C is on. 4.6 miles times 66KWH=303 miles range instead of 320. You lost 6% of your range at 65 MPH. You will use a high percentage at a slower speed, but the increase range of the motor will more than make up for it.

In reality, it just isn't the big issue some make out of it. Yeah, there is a decrease. Will you notice the difference? I doubt it. At least I don't.

-Don

Its great you do not have any problems. I would not wish that on anyone who buys a Tesla.

In florida, hvac is something that needs to be considered. Especially if the plan is to be out all day running around. It gets awfully hot down here. I would agree that its less of an issue with the Tesla but if you do not want to pay big bucks or cannot afford a Tesla, the alternatives are much more responsive to hvac and as you say, temperature. Tesla is able to drown all that out with big batteries, dual motors and better software management.
 
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DonTom

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In florida it would be something that needs to be considered. Especially if the plan is to be out all day running around
"Running around town" on a single charge should last you a week or two with everything on full blast. Then recharge as you sleep and then you're good for another week or two of running around.

BTW, SeilerBird and I sure saw a lot of Teslas when I there in Florida in the Orlando /St. Cloud area.

The warm temp in Florida is an especially good reason to own an EV. Cold reduces range more than anything.

-Don- Tifton, GA
 

Henry J Fate

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"Running around town" on a single charge should last you a week or two with everything on full blast. Then recharge as you sleep and then you're good for another week or two of running around.

BTW, SeilerBird and I sure saw a lot of Teslas when I there in Florida in the Orlando /St. Cloud area.

The warm temp in Florida is an especially good reason to own an EV. Cold reduces range more than anything.

-Don- Tifton, GA
Yup, Tesla is big in south florida. We really liked the model Y but unfortunately we would not be able to take it with us when we are out on the road. With a trailer it is just too heavy. I think the gvw was 5g or close to it. The other vehicles we were looking at were single motor front wheel drive if I remember correctly and I think it was the chevy that could be dolly towed but I would need to look back at my notes. The smaller vehicles have much less range and we decided just to stay with our 36mpg gas for now which is all paid for and has good life left. We use the car between 1500-2500 miles per month and get a return of 52¢ per mile so we were really looking at the electric for that reason. We decided to put it on hold for now. We may at some point pull the trigger on it. We did love the Tesla.
 

DonTom

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How come every EV topic becomes a Tesla show?
Perhaps because it is the bestselling EV with the most customer satisfaction of any, so it gets compared to quite often.

Now that I have said that I like to drive my 2022 Chevy Bolt more than my 2018 Tesla M3, LR, AWD.

-Don- Tifton, GA
 

Viajeros

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I thought this topic was rv trailers in Europe? Who cares what the best selling car is (in this thread).
Well, when talking about EV trailers, the topic is bound to cross with EV vehicles as the technologies will cross. As well, the development of EV trailers is marketed towards EV vehicle owners. It’s a discussion and discussions drift.

Jmho.
 

DonTom

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I thought this topic was rv trailers in Europe? Who cares what the best selling car is (in this thread).
Have you ever seen a thread anywhere with more than 30 messages without some thread drift?

IMO, mentioning it just makes more drift and accomplishes nothing.

-Don- Tifton, GA
 

Rob&Deryl

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I support EV development!

I do not expect to own an electric car. Heck, I don’t own a car.
I am not interested in Tesla cars.

When I see a topic about something EV that is not Tesla, I read it. If every EV topic is going to end up Tesla then I will stop reading any of them.
 

Gary RV_Wizard

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I thought this topic was rv trailers in Europe?
Not just Europe, though that's where the eTrailer technology was developed. Thor now has exclusive rights to using the ZF eTrailer technology in RV trailers. And since the vast majority of Thor's RV sales are in the USA, you can count on seeing it offered here. No doubt starting with Airstream, an iconic US brand.
 

Viajeros

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I would love to know more about the interface. Is it all inertia and AI based or is there a data connection needed between the tow vehicle and the trailer? EV’s have 7 pin connections just like any other vehicle, but will there be an additional connection or possibly over the air connection? Interesting stuff. I live the concept.
 
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