Anti gel v diesel #1

The friendliest place on the web for anyone with an RV or an interest in RVing!
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.

Tom

Administrator
Joined
Jan 13, 2005
Posts
48,637
Has anyone used an anti-gel additive such as Power Service Supplement to protect against low temperatures while the rig is in winter storage. What difference is there between using the anti-gel additive v using a winter blend of diesel (diesel #1)?
 

UTTransplant

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 20, 2014
Posts
2,657
Location
Cedar Falls, IA
I understood from a Cummins guy that you only need the winter blend fuel if you travel in the winter. If you are in storage, just top up the tank before you put it to bed to minimize condensation. As long as it is warmer when you turn it on in the spring you will be fine. If you occasionally exercise the engine while in storage, either fill up with a winter blend (all you can find in my area in cold weather) or add a manufacturer approved additive.
 

jubileee

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 17, 2013
Posts
684
As a trucker in the cold climes for over 50 years, I can tell you that power service will work just fine if engine is started regularly and fuel is circulated and warmed. We always used coolant based fuel tank warmers and heated fuel filters.
If engine is going to sit for a long period (over a week) at consistent cold temps (-10 and colder), then #1 is best, but fuel tank will have to be warmed to get fuel to flow through the filter.
Just my experiences.
If there is only minimal chance of use from cold storage, I would treat it Power Service (double dose) and be prepared to heat fuel and fuel filter before and on startup if unit is needed.Your outfit may have a heated fuel filter/ water separator.
I might add that even though I’m passed 80 and sold my trucking business 4 years ago, I still have my service truck and all my cold weather start gear. If we get a - 20, -30 degree cold snap, I enjoy going out and starting a few warm state truckers at $500 a pop. Makes me appreciate retirement and don’t have to do it if I don’t want to.
 

Ray-IN

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 16, 2014
Posts
254
Location
North America-somewhere
I understood from a Cummins guy that you only need the winter blend fuel if you travel in the winter. If you are in storage, just top up the tank before you put it to bed to minimize condensation. As long as it is warmer when you turn it on in the spring you will be fine. If you occasionally exercise the engine while in storage, either fill up with a winter blend (all you can find in my area in cold weather) or add a manufacturer approved additive.
Exactly! If diesel fuel is jelled Power Service 9-1-1 works as advertised.
 

Tom

Administrator
Joined
Jan 13, 2005
Posts
48,637
Thanks for the replies. My question came from our (Chris and I) discussion about leaving our motorhome in covered storage in WY over the winter. We're on our n'th time around the loop of installing a park model, buy a 5th wheel and store for the winter, store the motorhome in WY for the winter, continue doing what we've been doing i.e. travel to WY in Spring and return home to mild CA at the end of summer.

Anticipating we'd buy a 5th wheel, I snagged a 50 foot enclosed bay in Star Valley for the last couple of years. Unfortunately, there's no power in the bay, so there are considerations that have previously made me shy away from storing the coach there.

The one issue that has continued to have me concerned is the diesel gel issue. Arriving in Spring with a tank of diesel #1 isn't practical, nor is replacing the contents of the tank when we leave at the end of summer. Also, we won't/can't visit to routinely start the engine, and I can't use some form of fuel heating when we begin the next season.

On the gel issue, would it be safe to assume that adding an anti-gel product before we store for the winter, we wouldn't have an issue starting the coach when we show up in Spring?
 

Gary RV_Wizard

Site Team
Joined
Feb 2, 2005
Posts
73,553
Location
At our Silver Springs FL home
It's my understanding that diesel "gel" is reversible, i.e. it will "ungel" when temperatures return to normal. So, if you store the rig until warmer weather and never start it until then, there is no need to worry about gel in the fuel.

#1 diesel (basically kerosene) has a lower freeze/gel point than #2, so depending on the expected low temperature, there may be no gelling at all. The anti-gel additives like Power Service go even lower. I don't know the specific temperatures, but you can research that as well as I.

A belt and suspenders approach would be to fill the fuel tank, add the Power Service anti-gel, drive the coach to storage, and then leave it without every starting it again until spring weather arrives.
 

Tom

Administrator
Joined
Jan 13, 2005
Posts
48,637
Thanks for the link Gary. The "gel reversal" if correct, will do it for us and, as you say, we can still add anti-gel.

I recall the day we moved from San Jose, I awoke to find my neighbor with a blow torch trying to thaw his incoming water line following an unusually cold night. The moving truck turned up several hours late and the owner explained "all our fuel lines froze and we couldn't start the trucks; Had to wait for it to warm up". In retrospect, I suspect his fuel gel'd rather than froze. But, of course, this wasn't "Wyoming cold".
 

Utclmjmpr

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 14, 2009
Posts
5,086
Location
Cedar City, UT
Tom,, is your 50 foot bay insulated? I am in
"Utah Cold" each year and seldom do any" winterizing",, my garage is 1800 sf. and insulated (ceiling, walls, doors) This gives me a 15-20 degree differential ( 15-17 degrees before any concerns)
then I plug in.. Wyoming, as most northern states, switch over to winter fuel in the fall each year
and anti gel is added at the pump before offering #1 in deep winter..>>>Dan
 

Tom

Administrator
Joined
Jan 13, 2005
Posts
48,637
Tom,, is your 50 foot bay insulated? I am in
"Utah Cold" each year and seldom do any" winterizing",, my garage is 1800 sf. and insulated (ceiling, walls, doors) This gives me a 15-20 degree differential ( 15-17 degrees before any concerns)
then I plug in.. Wyoming, as most northern states, switch over to winter fuel in the fall each year
and anti gel is added at the pump before offering #1 in deep winter..>>>Dan
Good point re insulating, and I understand the temp differential. Our bay is not insulated.
 

Tom

Administrator
Joined
Jan 13, 2005
Posts
48,637
Tom,, is your 50 foot bay insulated? I am in
"Utah Cold" each year and seldom do any" winterizing",, my garage is 1800 sf. and insulated (ceiling, walls, doors) This gives me a 15-20 degree differential ( 15-17 degrees before any concerns)
then I plug in.. Wyoming, as most northern states, switch over to winter fuel in the fall each year
and anti gel is added at the pump before offering #1 in deep winter..>>>Dan
Thanks Dan. Our WY storage bay is not insulated, but I assumed there would be a small differential. We're approx in the "middle" on one side of a double row. Climate graphs show it can get down to 6 degrees December/January.

I just asked the owner if they have any plans to install power, given they've just announced a substantial increase in rent; That would at least allow me to put a battery minder(s) on. FWIW the valley floor is at 5600 feet.
 

Utclmjmpr

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 14, 2009
Posts
5,086
Location
Cedar City, UT
Very similar weather patterns here at Cedar City,, altitude here is 6000 ft. at the foothills of Brian Head mountain.. We did not break below zero this year and not near enough snow at this level.. I also installed roof windows in my garage when I built it so the RV roof mounted solar panels work great at keeping everything charged.>>Dan
 
Last edited:

Tom

Administrator
Joined
Jan 13, 2005
Posts
48,637
I thought I'd ask Power Service is I can just add their anti-gel and expect things to be fine after winter storage. I'll report their reply.
 

Utclmjmpr

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 14, 2009
Posts
5,086
Location
Cedar City, UT
I'm sure you will be fine, remember that you have an induction heater system installed in the intake manifold that preheats the incoming air prior to start cycle.. Many folks don't realize that when cold you can double cycle the heat system prior to actually attempting a start,, it helps alot..
My heater has been in-op for two years and my local "go to" Cummins mechanic says it's not worth the expense to replace, and the engine will still start well even at much lower temps,, for two years he has been right.>>>Dan
 

Ray-IN

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 16, 2014
Posts
254
Location
North America-somewhere
Gary is correct, jelled diesel fuel only happens in below freezing weather; kinda like water freezes then thaws in warmer weather.
When ambient temperature is above 32° there is no concern about summer diesel fuel jelling. I think you are worrying over something that is not a problem. I have ran my dieseel truck in below zero weather just on winter-mix diesel fuel without any problems. Do you plan to be using your MH in below freezing weather? If not, simply park in the garage and put it to bed until next spring.
Filling with #1 diesel when you aren't going to be driving is useless, #1 burns too hot to use in summer weather.
 

Robert K

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 30, 2011
Posts
529
I asked our mechanic if I could add kerosene to diesel in my work truck when anti gel didn't work (or 911) he said no. I believe it is lubricity.
 

Gary RV_Wizard

Site Team
Joined
Feb 2, 2005
Posts
73,553
Location
At our Silver Springs FL home
#1 diesel and kerosene are the same as far as the actual petroleum is concerned, but the additives (or lack of them) differ. Further, kerosene is usually not refined to ULSD low-sulfur standards for on-road use. Kerosene is formulated to be sucked up through a wick (e.g. in a lamp or space heater) and burn clean with low odor (because it is often burned indoors). That's not a concern in a diesel engine, but lubricity and other chemical factors are. #1 diesel is always preferred over kerosene for a winter-grade diesel fuel. However, some folks use kerosene to dilute #2 diesel for winter use, or substitute kerosene for #1 becasue that's what's available. Another factor may be that kerosene isn't taxed for road use like #1 diesel normally is, but that's a separate topic..
 

Tom

Administrator
Joined
Jan 13, 2005
Posts
48,637
I thought I'd ask Power Service is I can just add their anti-gel and expect things to be fine after winter storage. I'll report their reply.
A follow-up response from Power Service to my question re their Power Service Diesel Fuel Supplement + Cetane Boost product:

I am attaching a links to the product that would work better for long term storage.

Power Service Arctic Express
Power Service Arctic Express Antigel | 2/2.5 Gallon Case

Product Data Sheet:
https://petroleumservicecompany.com/content/pdfs/POWER_SERVICE_ARCTIC_EXPRESS_PDS.pdf

Treatment Ratio chart:
https://petroleumservicecompany.com/content/pdfs/POWER_SERVICE_ARCTIC_EXPRESS_TREATMENT_RATIO.pdf
 

Latest posts

Forum statistics

Threads
118,567
Posts
1,188,136
Members
123,165
Latest member
sc6lou1
Top Bottom