Automakers' EV Investment Losses and Buyer Concerns

[RayIN]

The financial side,

MSN

 

[Dan_Frisbie]

What common-sense people have been saying all along.
Even with government subsidies from the two previous Democrat Administrations, these things are a bust.

 

[Professor David]

Not the first time the big three have made major management mistakes. Remember the 70s.

 

[weighit]

I will say my Tesla is the best overall vehicle I have ever bought. Watching the other manufacturers try to compete was not going to work out well for them.

 

[RayIN]

Not the first time the big three have made major management mistakes. Remember the 70s.

When a line employee makes a major mistake they get fired; when the BOD or CEO makes a mistake they don't get a raise that year.

 

[DonTom]

The financial side,

" automakers bet enormous sums on an electric transition that moved much slower than expected, and now the losses are becoming too large to hide behind polished press releases and corporate"

Translation: Those who buy new EVs are getting a good deal, the big loss is to the sellers, not to the buyers.

As I expected, prices will drop fast. Both used and new, but used only until the gas price goes up even faster than it has been.

-Don- Sacramento Pass, NV

 

[Oldgator73]

When a line employee makes a major mistake they get fired; when the BOD or CEO makes a mistake they don't get a raise that year.

The CEO gets fired and ends up with a golden parachute large enough that we common folk could live off for generations.

 

[RayIN]

" automakers bet enormous sums on an electric transition that moved much slower than expected, and now the losses are becoming too large to hide behind polished press releases and corporate"

Translation: Those who buy new EVs are getting a good deal, the big loss is to the sellers, not to the buyers.

As I expected, prices will drop fast. Both used and new, but used only until the gas price goes up even faster than it has been.

-Don- Sacramento Pass, NV

The elephant if the room is, dealing with an orphan vehicle. The government has a law that requires vehicle mfgrs to provide access to repair parts for 10 yrs. from date of mfgr., unless, they go out of business.

 

[DonTom]

The elephant if the room is, dealing with an orphan vehicle.

There is always a way if there is a demand.

Such as with my 1971 motorcycle. The main difference is it runs a lot better now than when it was new. The after market stuff is often improved. Such as the OEM 180 watt electrical system is now 280 watts.

-Don- Sacramento Pass, NV

 

[DutchmenSport]

Oh well!!!! .... even Thomas Edison failed hundreds of times before he stumbled onto the right components to make the electric light bulb.

He probably went broke buying parts and pieces for his invention and all went belly-up. But hey!... the hardware store sure made a killing off of him!

 

[John From Detroit]

The CEO gets fired and ends up with a golden parachute large enough that we common folk could live off for generations.

And lower managers often get transferred.
But fired. Alas not so you'd notice.

More likely a good CEO who takes the company from a "Garage" to a multi-million (Or larger) but who also never graduated high school will be pushed out by the board because a "Dropout" does not fit the corporate image. One such was the founder of Electro Voice.

When the Beatles came to the USA the Microphones Ed Sullivan used.. All EV's They were that big.

Well the board pushed him out. So he packed his bags Left Benton Harbor MI and EV .,.. Don't hear much from them nowday (Heil Sound is the big performance mic company)

He went and founded a new company Ten Tec, In Sevierville, Tennessee,
I forget what he sold it for. But the amount was staggering (lots of zeros).

Now the founder of the company was a ham radio operator
Bob Heil, Founder of Heil Sound Likewise (K9EID, SK)
And the company that bought Ten-Tec from it's found.. Yup
And the guy who runs it now.. Also a Ham.

Getting fired from EV turned out well for Jack Burchfield (Founder EV co-founder Ten-Tec)
Alas he's no longer with us.

 

[Mark_K5LXP]

Not the first time the big three have made major management mistakes. Remember the 70s.

This has less to do with corporate marketing and product strategy than legislative. The EV movement was driven by looming emission standards and carbon credits that by design ICE could not meet. If EV's were the economic and performance nirvana proponents offered, there would be some market inertia supporting their adoption and production. But take away the legislation, and there's no 'there' there. Seems plausible that a niche EV market can exist going forward but for now EV's solve few problems people have. Artificially influencing results by laws and subsidies works, but only while in a specific political administration. So I guess we'll see how industry recovers, hopefully with domestic industry and not foreign.

Mark B.
Albuquerque, NM

 

[DonTom]

I will say my Tesla is the best overall vehicle I have ever bought. Watching the other manufacturers try to compete was not going to work out well for them.

Tesla is the only EV way to go a long distance, IMO. Mainly because of their great charging network that any idiot can use, unlike the countless hassles with various CCS chargers.

I own a 2018 Tesla M3, AWD, LR. I also own a 2022 Chevy Bolt. Believe it or not, I can list countless features my Bolt has that my Tesla does not. Bolt is better for shorter trips, IMO.

Lots of little things, such as the cameras switch to front from reverse when parking, icons for the blind spot on the mirrors instead of a screen that means take your eyes off the road. See the power used and gained in true KW as you drive. The regen control on the steering wheel, adjust regen as you need to slow down. Progressive regen on the brake pedal, (Tesla adds none).

But they are both great cars, but for different reasons.

-Don- Sacramento Pass, NV

 

[Professor David]

I will say my Tesla is the best overall vehicle I have ever bought. Watching the other manufacturers try to compete was not going to work out well for them.

Exactly. Tesla is still making a profit. Bad management resulting in bad products and/or bad product production timing equals bad sales numbers just like the trap the big three faced in the 70s.

 

[Professor David]

This has less to do with corporate marketing and product strategy than legislative. The EV movement was driven by looming emission standards and carbon credits that by design ICE could not meet. If EV's were the economic and performance nirvana proponents offered, there would be some market inertia supporting their adoption and production. But take away the legislation, and there's no 'there' there. Seems plausible that a niche EV market can exist going forward but for now EV's solve few problems people have. Artificially influencing results by laws and subsidies works, but only while in a specific political administration. So I guess we'll see how industry recovers, hopefully with domestic industry and not foreign.

Mark B.
Albuquerque, NM.

Yes…There does need to be consistent federal policy in support for a lot of essential things like getting the heck off oil, health care, education, science, etc… Lack of critical federal support and federal pressure doesn’t explain why Tesla is still profitable. Tesla is making a profit in the same environment as ford and GM because they make a better product that does things that people desire (like Japanese cars in the 70s to today). Ford and GM management has been behind for many decades. With that said, they do make good PU trucks.

 

[John From Detroit]

Research continues. With federal aid EVs are more and more popular. As they become even more so research will speed up. with research we get better batteries (Already seeing that) Either safer (less likely to "FLAME ON") or higher capacity or both. We get faster re-charging (Also already seeing that). Longer range. More reliability and other improvements.

Coupled with lower cost to manufacture.

Now all this will happen without Government aid. but not as fast.

 

[Oldgator73]

I’ve got maybe ten more years left so I’m just going to sit back and watch.

 

[Gary RV_Wizard]

The government has a law that requires vehicle mfgrs to provide access to repair parts for 10 yrs. from date of mfgr.

That's a misconception. Replacement parts are required to be available only during the manufacturer's warranty period. That includes the emissions warranty, so some emissions components do have a long term availability. But if after 5 years you need a fender or a tail light lens, you might be out of luck.

The good news is that the big US auto brands voluntarily keep parts available for roughly 10 years for most of their vehicles, but they may not do so for limited production models or optional equipment.

 

[Gary RV_Wizard]

Not the first time the big three have made major management mistakes. Remember the 70s.

Ford & GM marketing has always tended to go overboard once they decided some feature or tech is a Good Thing. Or in some cases, not a Good Thing (like the V8 ICE). They live in constant fear of missing out on the next wave of customer demand. And in this case, they were aided and abetted by the US Government, pushing EVs and making it ever more challenging for ICE vehicles.

In their defense, the long lead times and huge investments needed to bring new vehicles or tech to market means they have to make big bets far in advance. But you would think those same things would make them more cautious, as Toyota, Honda, and others are.

 

[Professor David]

Ford & GM marketing has always tended to go overboard once they decided some feature or tech is a Good Thing. Or in some cases, not a Good Thing (like the V8 ICE). They live in constant fear of missing out on the next wave of customer demand. And in this case, they were aided and abetted by the US Government, pushing EVs and making it ever more challenging for ICE vehicles.

In their defense, the long lead times and huge investments needed to bring new vehicles or tech to market means they have to make big bets far in advance. But you would think those same things would make them more cautious, as Toyota, Honda, and others are.

Perhaps Ford and GM were drawn into the EV business too soon, at least in part, with the success of Tesla...essentially hoping to ride an EV paradigm shift. One problem is that both Ford and GM are big clunky corporate cultures that move very, very slowly and have little ability to be innovative enough to compete with a new technologies and demands from both government and consumers (example: the problems with Active Fuel Management (AFM) engines).