Bank Rip off with chip?

[rogergo4]

A year ago I purchased a low mileage motor home with a Ford V10. I hadn?t had any problems with the engine, but only 2500 miles in that year. Two weeks ago, I had a banks system installed to feel better about pulling my boat. Got a Quote and Paid $2800. It did great, with one exception. It stalled three times on me on that first trip. The place that installed it, said, bring it in, it may need a chip. I took it there, and two days later they said it done, and collected $400 plus tax for a chip. They said one out of ten ford engines need a special banks chip.
My question is, does this seem right? Could they really install the system knowing that I of 10 will have stalling problems without a chip, and not say anything? Shouldn?t have my first quote had included this chip?
If anyone reads this and can give me some insight, please help!!

 

[Jeff]

I had a Banks on a 460 Ford but never heard of Banks using a chip. ???

 

[edjunior]

Wow.  I can't possibly imagine what logic they're using with their statement of "1 in 10".  Did they offer a reason why "1 in 10" would have that problem?  I imagine the chip will only help and further increase the performance, but you're right, I think they might have mentioned it up front, and at least offered it at the same time.  Kinda screwey!

 

[Ron]

Just doesn't sound right to me. I would suggest you contact Banks directly and tell them what you have what the installer did and said and get the info straight from the horses mouth so to speak.

 

[Gary RV_Wizard]

Definitely contact Banks directly and ask about this  - I've never heard of a Banks package requiring any chip.  Nor should adding Banks headers and exhaust system cause stalling. 

My last experience with Banks was a 1996 Ford 460, so it isn't relevent to your V10, but Banks is a pretty reputable outfit and I think they will give you a straight answer.  Installers, on the other hand, seldom want to admit they might have done something wrong and also might merely want to sell you "a chip", which is a nice high profit item for them.

 

[Woody]

A friend of mine had the Banks PowerPac system installed on his 93 Fleetwood Southwind with a Ford 460 last spring. While he didn't get the gas mileage improvement they claim he said he did get a very significant improvement in horsepower.

Woody

 

[John From Detroit]

Re: Improvement in HP instead of MPG... Usually you get one or the other, and what's more it's your choice... Yup, "Baby" the rig and you get MPG.  Pedal to the Metal and you get HP

 

[rogergo4]

Thanks For all you're responce. I will contact Banks and let this forum know the outcome. I did have more power on the hills for sure, and my wife said it's more stable, but I think she mixing the power up with stability. I will up date soon. Thanks Again!!!

 

[rogergo4]

Update--I call Banks Tec service today. And the botton line is they don't understand either, but an annalist of everthing indicates i got what I paid for and paid right for what I got. The stalling should have nothing to do with anything they did. In fact installing the chip, which is actually an ottomind has caused stalling in a few cases, because the chip it self comes loose once and a while. But the ottomind unit is a $400 extra, that Banks said really shouldn't be and extra, and really should be sold with every package. I should help with fuel economy and other issues. For now I think I will just try it anther trip when gas get to $2.00 a gallon, and carefully see if it still stalls. I was told that I should look for an airleak. (Just kidding about the $2). Thanks again for all you're help.

 

[DougJ]

Hi Rogergo,

I had a Banks power pack and tanscommand installed at the Banks factory in Jan 2004.  No stalling after; more horsepower after; and perhaps a slightly better MPG.

The transcommand is, as I understand it, the only "chip"they added and that has to do with controlling the E40D transmission.

Sometimes something goes wrong at the same time that you change something supposedly for the better and the temptation is to associate the "going wrong" with the "change for the better."

Perhaps  that's what you're observing here.  You may be wise to ignore the Banks change and ask, what would cause my V10 to stall. 

Ciao,

Doug

 

[blueblood]

Update--I call Banks Tec service today. And the botton line is they don't understand either, but an annalist of everthing indicates i got what I paid for and paid right for what I got. The stalling should have nothing to do with anything they did. In fact installing the chip, which is actually an ottomind has caused stalling in a few cases, because the chip it self comes loose once and a while. But the ottomind unit is a $400 extra, that Banks said really shouldn't be and extra, and really should be sold with every package. I should help with fuel economy and other issues. For now I think I will just try it anther trip when gas get to $2.00 a gallon, and carefully see if it still stalls. I was told that I should look for an airleak. (Just kidding about the $2). Thanks again for all you're help.

I think you might benefit from reading Gale bank's own explanation of the Ottomind module

http://www.rversonline.org/PowerChips.html

 

[Gary RV_Wizard]

Sometimes something goes wrong at the same time that you change something supposedly for the better and the temptation is to associate the "going wrong" with the "change for the better."

Perhaps  that's what you're observing here.  You may be wise to ignore the Banks change and ask, what would cause my V10 to stall.

I think Doug has hit the nail on the head.  Having or not-having the Banks system, with or without the Ottomind chip, should not cause stalling.  The question is "why does it stall" and not "is the chip worth $400".

 

[madizazzo]

I am a retired fleet mechanic, ASE Master Fleet rated, and had a lot of experience with Ford products.

Fords with fuel injection use (or used) an idle air bypass operated by a stepper motor which is controled by the engine computer (the ECM).  The ECM "learns" by making slow, minor adjustments to the various devices it controls.  It starts from a pre-determined setting and is constantly fine tuning these settings in response to the feed back it gets.  It can only make incremental changes.

The idle speed is set by a combination of air passing the throttle plate and air passing through the idle air bypass control.

Whenever the battery is disconnected for more than a few minutes, the ECM will loose it's adaptive settings, starting back at the pre-determined settings and then gradually readjusting back to what it sees as correct.

The ECM also "forgets" a setting if the engine is started with an adjustable control disconnected.  When it's re-connected, the learning process starts from scratch.  This makes it easy for a mechanic to reset the ECM for a replacemnet part.

Over time, the throttle body and the idle air bypass will both accumulate deposits.  The idle air bypass has been allowing more air than the "standard" setting to compensate for this.  After being disconnected, or after the ECM looses it's adaptive memory because of it was disconnected from the battery, the engine may keep stalling.  The ECM will only adjust the idle solenoid one step each time the engine is started and gets up to operating temperature.  Within 6-12 statrs, it will be set correctly again. 

An alternative is to clean the throttle body, which will raise the idle, which the air bypass will adjust to quicker.

I hope this helps clear this up.

 

[Newt & Jan]

madizazzo - I love it when someone can give an understandable answer to a complex issue and you surely did.