Best way to learn guitar for beginners

[SeilerBird]

My $179 guitar plays fantastic above the 12th fret. You obviously have not played an inexpensive guitar in a long time. Things have changed radically. The only advantage to an expensive guitar is you can brag to your friends how much your guitar costs. Kinda like buying a Rolex. It keeps time no better than a Timex but it is good for showing off.

 

[muskoka guy]

My $179 guitar plays fantastic above the 12th fret. You obviously have not played an inexpensive guitar in a long time. Things have changed radically. The only advantage to an expensive guitar is you can brag to your friends how much your guitar costs. Kinda like buying a Rolex. It keeps time no better than a Timex but it is good for showing off.

I don't think having an expensive guitar comes down to showing off. There is a reason every professional player has an expensive guitar, and its not because they are showing off. If you are happy with your guitar, that's great. I personally don't think playing a cheap guitar will help someone learn higher level playing. Thats my experience in 38 years of playing. Perhaps you are an exception to the rule.

 

[SeilerBird]

I don't think having an expensive guitar comes down to showing off. There is a reason every professional player has an expensive guitar, and its not because they are showing off. If you are happy with your guitar, that's great. I personally don't think playing a cheap guitar will help someone learn higher level playing. Thats my experience in 38 years of playing. Perhaps you are an exception to the rule.

Jimi Hendrix, the Beatles and hundreds of other guitar gods from the 60s never played an expensive guitar, yet they changed the world. I learned the solo to Crazy Train on $199 guitar not to mention a lot of others.

 

[muskoka guy]

Jimi Hendrix, the Beatles and hundreds of other guitar gods from the 60s never played an expensive guitar, yet they changed the world. I learned the solo to Crazy Train on $199 guitar not to mention a lot of others.

I play cheap guitars at times as well. Im not saying it cant be done. My point was if someone is going to stick with it, don't sell yourself short. My daughter took piano lessons for many years. All she had at home was a keyboard. After a few years of lessons, her piano teacher called me up, and insisted if my daughter was to advance to a higher level, she needed a better piano at home to practice on. I bought her the best piano that I could afford that would meet the requirements. It was no high end one, but it was a real piano with weighted keys that made her practice authentic. She took piano for many years, and can teach piano now if she wants to. I can clearly see Im not going to convince you of the benefits of higher quality guitars, just the same as you are not going to convince me to cash in my axes for lesser ones. On this I guess we shall have to agree to disagree. As long as you get pleasure from playing, it doesn't really matter what you play. May you have many more years of enjoyment playing. Cheers

 

[SeilerBird]

I am certainly not trying to convince you to trade in your guitars for cheaper ones. My point is that the whole idea of the more money you spend on a guitar the better it sounds and the better you play is not real. I have heard this line of baloney for years on music web sites. Many guitar players are convinced the more money you spend on a guitar the better you are as a guitar player. I have just never seen, felt or heard the truth. In 55 years of playing guitar I have listened to thousands of guitars, played hundreds and owned dozens. I agree that 40 years ago you were correct. Cheap guitars were the pits. Uneven frets, action way too high, bad electronics. But now modern guitars are all computer generated on CNC machines. Gibson supplies Epiphone factories all over the world with their CNC programs so they are basically all identical except the hardware. Fenders biggest problem right now is that MIM and MIJ guitars are being rated higher by many guitar players over the MIA guitars.

The only way I would be convinced that expensive guitars sound better is if I could play you a guitar song you have never heard before and you could tell me how much the guitar cost. I know you cannot do that. However what you could do is to stop in a music store someday and play an Epiphone Les Paul Jr Special II and then explain to me exactly how a $2000 Gibson LP would be an improvement.

 

[muskoka guy]

I am certainly not trying to convince you to trade in your guitars for cheaper ones. My point is that the whole idea of the more money you spend on a guitar the better it sounds and the better you play is not real. I have heard this line of baloney for years on music web sites. Many guitar players are convinced the more money you spend on a guitar the better you are as a guitar player. I have just never seen, felt or heard the truth. In 55 years of playing guitar I have listened to thousands of guitars, played hundreds and owned dozens. I agree that 40 years ago you were correct. Cheap guitars were the pits. Uneven frets, action way too high, bad electronics. But now modern guitars are all computer generated on CNC machines. Gibson supplies Epiphone factories all over the world with their CNC programs so they are basically all identical except the hardware. Fenders biggest problem right now is that MIM and MIJ guitars are being rated higher by many guitar players over the MIA guitars.
Perhaps you have a point on electrics, as they are easier to play to begin with. But, there is no way a 200 dollar acoustic is going to sound, or feel like a 2000 dollar one. Brazilian rosewood is the benchmark of tone woods for acoustics. You couldn't find a Brazilian rosewood acoustic for 2000, let alone 200 dollars. I have a variety of different acoustics, ranging from 300 dollar ones up to many thousands. I take the cheaper ones traveling, like when I go to Cuba or something. I cant risk flight damage on a good guitar. I travel with about a 700 dollar one in the rv.  There is a huge difference in sound, and playability between them. Each step up in price range increases the ease of playing, and the tone quality of the guitar. My former girlfriend was a professional musician, so I had the pleasure of playing many of her friends guitars as well. She played an Eric Clapton series Martin D28. Her friends played many high end Gibsons, Taylors, Larrivees, etc. After playing these types of instruments, you would never attempt to convince someone that a 200 dollar guitar is the same. Im sorry, but the point of this thread is advice to someone wanting to learn guitar. Maybe after playing for 55 years, it is easy for you, but someone just trying to learn acoustic is making a mistake playing a cheap guitar any longer than a year in my opinion. I guess this is just you and me Seilerbird. Apparently no other guitar player want to voice an opinion on this one. lol
The only way I would be convinced that expensive guitars sound better is if I could play you a guitar song you have never heard before and you could tell me how much the guitar cost. I know you cannot do that. However what you could do is to stop in a music store someday and play an Epiphone Les Paul Jr Special II and then explain to me exactly how a $2000 Gibson LP would be an improvement.

Perhaps you have a point on electrics, as they are easier to play to begin with. But, there is no way a 200 dollar acoustic is going to sound, or feel like a 2000 dollar one. Brazilian rosewood is the benchmark of tone woods for acoustics. You couldn't find a Brazilian rosewood acoustic for 2000, let alone 200 dollars. I have a variety of different acoustics, ranging from 300 dollar ones up to many thousands. I take the cheaper ones traveling, like when I go to Cuba or something. I cant risk flight damage on a good guitar. I travel with about a 700 dollar one in the rv.  There is a huge difference in sound, and playability between them. Each step up in price range increases the ease of playing, and the tone quality of the guitar. My former girlfriend was a professional musician, so I had the pleasure of playing many of her friends guitars as well. She played an Eric Clapton series Martin D28. Her friends played many high end Gibsons, Taylors, Larrivees, etc. After playing these types of instruments, you would never attempt to convince someone that a 200 dollar guitar is the same. Im sorry, but the point of this thread is advice to someone wanting to learn guitar. Maybe after playing for 55 years, it is easy for you, but someone just trying to learn acoustic is making a mistake playing a cheap guitar any longer than a year in my opinion. I guess this is just you and me Seilerbird. Apparently no other guitar player want to voice an opinion on this one. lol

 

[SeilerBird]

OOps wrong place.

 

[SeilerBird]

Musk - You must have missed it a while back when I upgraded my $129 8 string uke to a $469 8 string uke. The cheap one is not as pretty sounding or looking as the expensive one. I never buy electric guitars that cost over $200 but since I almost always play my uke acoustically I did not mind spending the money on the Lanikai. If Martin would make an 8 string with an electric tuner I would buy it in a heartbeat. Here is a video I made to compare the two:

https://youtu.be/OI9HaTdB_6s

 

[muskoka guy]

Musk - You must have missed it a while back when I upgraded my $129 8 string uke to a $469 8 string uke. The cheap one is not as pretty sounding or looking as the expensive one. I never buy electric guitars that cost over $200 but since I almost always play my uke acoustically I did not mind spending the money on the Lanikai. If Martin would make an 8 string with an electric tuner I would buy it in a heartbeat. Here is a video I made to compare the two:

https://youtu.be/OI9HaTdB_6s

Cool, zeppelin, the doobies, mine kind of guy. The problem with electrics is it opens another whole can of worms that can also get expensive. Im talking amps and pedals. A beginner can buy a small amp with effects already in it. I have one of those as well, but it isn't loud enough or good enough quality for playing on stage. I guess not too much cheap about guitars once you reach the professional level.

 

[SeilerBird]

Cool, zeppelin, the doobies, mine kind of guy. The problem with electrics is it opens another whole can of worms that can also get expensive. Im talking amps and pedals. A beginner can buy a small amp with effects already in it. I have one of those as well, but it isn't loud enough or good enough quality for playing on stage. I guess not too much cheap about guitars once you reach the professional level.

Boy you should try my amp. I bought a Fender Mustang GT 200. It costs about $500 but I got mine for $350. It is totally controlled by an app. It is just way  too cool. Comes with 120 patches built in and there is a library online that is free and easy to use that contains thousands of user created patches. There are dozens of patches for Stairway To Heaven alone. I downloaded one and it sounded precisely like the record. Same deal with Crazy Train. If I were in a band I would have one patch for each song. Switching between patches is simple. It connects with Bluetooth. So I sit in the living room and with my wireless guitar and my wireless amp and I am in hog heaven.

Speaking of which I was rocking out last night (to the Doobie Brothers) and I really love this guitar. I cannot find one single thing about it I would change. It feels like it is about half the weight of my older LP so that one will be sold. Speaking of the Doobie Brothers in 1979 one of the Walton family died and there was a benefit at the Catalyst Club in Santa Cruz Ca headlined by the Doobies. My brother Bill said he knew a doorman and we should go down and see if we can get in since it was sold out. We went down about 2 in the afternoon and the front door was locked. So we went around to the back door and it was open and the Doobies were on stage warming up. So we walked in like we owned the place and went up to the balcony and sat there for an hour listening to a private Doobie Brothers concert. After about a half an hour Toni Tennille came skiping in through the front door and joined them on stage. Daryl Dragon (the Captain) followed her in (walking not skipping) and he got up on stage behind one the keyboards. About a half an hour later they broke for a smoke break out the back door. Bill and I followed them outside and they were standing in a circle BSing. We just went up and joined the circle and chatted with them. Toni was wearing a white pair of pants that had a distinctive belt and I recognized it as identical to a pair I had bought in Maui. So I asked her if she bought her pants in Maui. She said yes and was positively blown away that I would know where she bought her pants. I got to chat with Daryl and he was a very nice guy. They lived in Incline Village where my sister lives and they knew the town quite well. I was standing in between Patrick Simmons and Daryl but I never said a word to Patrick much to my dismay now. But what a great memory. They were all so nice to us and no one questioned why we were there. We did not go to the concert, we didn't need too, we already had a private one for free.

 

[muskoka guy]

Cool story. Lots of my buddies have gone cordless. Im still in the dino age with cords. Lots of new hi tech stuff to learn. I recently bought a rc 30 boss looper Ive been working with. Im trying to work in some looping so I can use it for possibly some solo stuff. In any case, it makes practice lots of fun. I normally jam with backing tracks to work on leads. With this, I can just play the rhythm myself, and jam away for hours.

 

[SeilerBird]

Loopers are cool. The very best use of a looper I have ever heard was from Jake:

https://youtu.be/mljFr7yuYzk

 

[8Muddypaws]

I bought a looper and expanded it?s memory so I could record whole songs into it, thinking we could use it to cover for a band mate who couldn?t play anymore.  Didn?t work out because his Alzheimer?s is progressing very quickly.  Now that?s I?m using the iPad I can simply record the parts in my studio, render them down to and Apple friendly format, and be a one man band.  I?ve always though that to be really cheesy but it?s where I am now.

BTW, the looper is a Jam Man Solo and the manufacturer says it can only handle a 32GB memory card.  Not so.  If you format the the card on the Jam Man and then use Easus Partition Magic (from Majorgeeks.com)on a PC to expand and format the partition out to 64GB, maybe further but I?ve only tested  it to 64.  I?ve found several other devices that say they max out at 32GB will also work with 64 if done this way, most recently a dash cam and a Wyze security cam.  I?ve got about 40 64GB cards so I am motivated to use them.

 

[SeilerBird]

Musk - I think you missed this post up above so I am reprinting down here for you.

I completely agree with you Musk. I stated earlier in the thread that I was only talking about electrics. Acoustics are a completely different ballgame and the wood is a very big factor in the way they sound. Wood makes absolutely no difference in the sound of an electric guitar since electric guitars don't make a sound that is amplified, it makes an electro-mechanical vibration that the amp then turns into sound. Keef played a transparent plastic guitar for many years and you simply cannot tell it is any different that the wooden guitars he plays.

 

[SeilerBird]

Mud - I can't help but wonder how does someone end up with 40 - 64 gig cards? That is some great info you have for the Mac users. Thanks.

 

[knucklebucket]

A lot of guitarist claim that inexpensive guitars are just junk. I never pay over $200 for a guitar because I think that expensive guitars are a waste of money. I personally could not tell the difference between this cheap guitar and a very expensive Gibson Les Paul. It feels exactly the same to me. They also claim that expensive guitars sound better. Now that might be true for acoustic guitars but electric guitars do not make any sounds. They produce electro-mechanical vibrations that the amp turns into sounds you can hear. The amp is totally responsible for the sound of an electric guitar and the price of the guitar is meaningless to me.

yea I can't agree with that at all. I been playing for 40+ years. I play in one of the top local bands around here. and cost is everything. I'm not saying cheap guitars can't be played as well. but they don't sound as good. they have cheap hardware, cheap wood. the tone from your amp is only half of the overall tone. the resonance of the wood, the materials used in the windings of the pickups, the intonation of the neck, and most importantly the way you play has a lot to do with tone. that being said, if your just playing around the campfire, at home, or the occasional home town bar gig, you would be correct. but if your serious about playing music, quality of equipment absolutely does matter.

 

[SeilerBird]

yea I can't agree with that at all. I been playing for 40+ years. I play in one of the top local bands around here. and cost is everything. I'm not saying cheap guitars can't be played as well. but they don't sound as good. they have cheap hardware, cheap wood. the tone from your amp is only half of the overall tone. the resonance of the wood, the materials used in the windings of the pickups, the intonation of the neck, and most importantly the way you play has a lot to do with tone. that being said, if your just playing around the campfire, at home, or the occasional home town bar gig, you would be correct. but if your serious about playing music, quality of equipment absolutely does matter.

Of course you disagree with me. Every person who disagrees with me says the same thing. The reason is because I have insulted the fact they spent several thousand dollars too much on their guitar. They always claim the same thing, better sound, better pickups, better wood, etc. All personal opinions without a shred of evidence to back up their claims. But when I ask if I played them a random guitar song they had not heard could the tell me if it was a cheap guitar or an expensive guitar their response is always crickets. If expensive guitars sounded so much better then why can't they tell what they are listening to in a blind test? Jimi Hendrix only played off the shelf cheap Fenders and he certainly did ok.

 

[8Muddypaws]

This thread has gone adrift in a sea of conflicting opinions.  As one of the perpetrators I apologies for the threadjacking.

 

[Tom]

And so you should Russ. Go stand in the corner 

I'm still a beginner who has no idea what he's doing, although I have 5 acoustic guitars and 8 (or is that 9) ukuleles. At the request of a family member and against my better judgement, I ordered (from Amazon) a "beginner guitar" as a Christmas gift for a 12 year-old. I spent several days trying to get it in tune, but it wouldn't stay in tune for more than a few seconds, even if not played. I don't think I was able to play a single in-tune chord on this thing. Anyone who could not have "heard" the issue would be in serious need of hearing aids.

Yesterday I dropped it off at a Kohl's store (free Amazon returns)

 

[knucklebucket]

Of course you disagree with me. Every person who disagrees with me says the same thing. The reason is because I have insulted the fact they spent several thousand dollars too much on their guitar. They always claim the same thing, better sound, better pickups, better wood, etc. All personal opinions without a shred of evidence to back up their claims. But when I ask if I played them a random guitar song they had not heard could the tell me if it was a cheap guitar or an expensive guitar their response is always crickets. If expensive guitars sounded so much better then why can't they tell what they are listening to in a blind test? Jimi Hendrix only played off the shelf cheap Fenders and he certainly did ok.

no my apologies it's not an insult at all and wasn't trying to be harsh.  but  I can absolutely tell the difference as I have had both. example. I had a 2012 Epiphone les paul/ and a 2012 Gibson les paul. cosmetically other than the headstock they absolutely appear to be the same guitar except Epiphone was 300.00 and the les paul was 2200.00.  but when playing through various amps ( I have several) the action of the pickups were very noticeably hotter on the Gibson than on the Epiphone. the sustain when holding notes and the harmonics were absolutely better on the Gibson. but I agree there are famous musicians that use cheaper made guitars. the difference is most of them tend to use a lot of effects so the playability and tone of the guitar is less important. for the average guy or gal to go out and get a guitar it does not make sense to go spend a ton on one. but as myself a touring musician, I use very basic all tube vintage amps and my high end guitars give me much more in the way of tone and playability. the important part is we all love making music, and that keeps the world going around .