Bicycle battery--kills one

[DonTom]

"Lithium battery fire inside Bay Area home kills one"​

The full story is here.

 

[bigbAZ]

I wish these news reports would say if the battery was charging, or in use. I'm pretty sure for a Li battery to catch fire it has to be either charging or discharging.
Almost all ebike batteries are not LiFeP04. LiFeP04 is much safer.

 

[DonTom]

I'm pretty sure for a Li battery to catch fire it has to be either charging or discharging.

No, but is less likely when doing nothing.

"No, a lithium-ion battery does not need to be charging or discharging to catch fire. While fires are most common during charging or high-discharge events due to thermal stress, lithium batteries can ignite while sitting idle if they suffer from internal defects, manufacturing flaws, or physical damage.

• Thermal Runaway at Rest: Fires can occur during storage due to internal short circuits, impurities, or degraded separators, which trigger a self-sustaining chemical reaction known as thermal runaway without an external electrical load.
• Role of Electrolyte: The flammable electrolyte inside the cell can vaporize and ignite if the battery is punctured or exposed to extreme heat (above 130°C–150°C), regardless of its state of charge.
• Risk Factors: The primary risks for idle fires include manufacturing defects (accounting for roughly 25% of incidents), physical damage from crushing or drops, and improper storage conditions like high humidity or temperatures.

Although a fully discharged battery contains less stored energy and is generally less dangerous than a charged one, it is not risk-free because the flammable materials within the cell remain present and can still burn if an ignition source is introduced. "

 

[DonTom]

Almost all ebike batteries are not LiFeP04. LiFeP04 is much safer.

Yes, and the new Solid State Battery is safer yet. I expect the SS battery to soon be used for all electronic stuff from cellphones to EV cars and RV house batteries. And quite soon. The LiFeP04 will soon be obsolete too, IMO.

The SS battery is the only battery of countless other designs mentioned that I believe is not just more of the endless EV battery vaporware. But it is also a designed for replacing every type rechargeable, battery, not for just EVs.

The only question is when, and I expect very soon on this one, mainly because it is so well-proved to be safer than all the rest. Other advantages too. One big advantage is charge to 100% as much as wanted, every charge if wanted, and almost no slowdown near the end, making the charge to 100% SOC much faster.

The SS battery is a major improvement in every known way.

But IMO, the real proof is only when there are thousands of them on the road for at least five years. That is when we will really know all the facts.

-Don- Reno, NV

 

[RayIN]

I realize it's not the same battery type, however i checked on our MH last winter and found the GPS unit laying on the dash shelf. The battery had ruptured and blew it off it's mount. My fault for leaving it plugged into 12V.

 

[John From Detroit]

But IMO, the real proof is only when there are thousands of them on the road for at least five years. That is when we will really know all the facts.

Very good point.. Reading about the SS batteries they are not that much different from slightly older LiFePO4s .. But they are different. The design swaps safety (less likely to "Flame on") for capacity (Energy density of watt hours per pound). That does look like an advantage.

I realize it's not the same battery type, however i checked on our MH last winter and found the GPS unit laying on the dash shelf. The battery had ruptured and blew it off it's mount. My fault for leaving it plugged into 12V.

Odd. a well designed unit would limit battery charging to prevent just that
However... That is a "Battery failure" mode even with a proper charge limiter.
That type of battery swells when it gets old and yes that can heppen

Your smart phone. If you notice the back bulging out.. that is the issue Old battery nearing total failure.

 

[whiteva]

WE recharge at the local bar! Haven't had a problem in 200 years

 

[TheBar]

Lithium batteries have been around since 1984 but it took a couple decades before the fire hazard became public knowledge. The new SS batteries may have a fatal flaw that hasn't been discovered yet.

 

[Trivet]

"No, a lithium-ion battery does not need to be charging or discharging to catch fire. While fires are most common during charging or high-discharge events due to thermal stress, lithium batteries can ignite while sitting idle if they suffer from internal defects, manufacturing flaws, or physical damage.

• Thermal Runaway at Rest: Fires can occur during storage due to internal short circuits, impurities, or degraded separators, which trigger a self-sustaining chemical reaction known as thermal runaway without an external electrical load.
• Role of Electrolyte: The flammable electrolyte inside the cell can vaporize and ignite if the battery is punctured or exposed to extreme heat (above 130°C–150°C), regardless of its state of charge.
• Risk Factors: The primary risks for idle fires include manufacturing defects (accounting for roughly 25% of incidents), physical damage from crushing or drops, and improper storage conditions like high humidity or temperatures.

Although a fully discharged battery contains less stored energy and is generally less dangerous than a charged one, it is not risk-free because the flammable materials within the cell remain present and can still burn if an ignition source is introduced. "

I see quotation marks around this. Who are you quoting?

 

[DonTom]

I see quotation marks around this. Who are you quoting?

It was copied from a Brave Browser Search. There is no way for me to link to it.

-Don- Reno, NV

 

[DonTom]

Lithium batteries have been around since 1984 but it took a couple decades before the fire hazard became public knowledge. The new SS batteries may have a fatal flaw that hasn't been discovered yet.

Agreed! That is why I said "But IMO, the real proof is only when there are thousands of them on the road for at least five years. That is when we will really know all the facts."

But it looks good so far. But so did the newly designed battery in my 2022 Chevy Bolt--until a couple of them blew up.

Look at all the vehicle recalls these days. Has anybody purchased a new vehicle in the last five or so years without a safety recall of some type?

-Don- Reno, NV

 

[DonTom]

Your smart phone. If you notice the back bulging out.. that is the issue Old battery nearing total failure.

That happened to my Verizion Hotspot battery. The battery still worked well, but when on for a while, the back cover would snap out, especially when warmer.

Replacing the battery with a cheap new one from Amazon 100% fixed the issue.

-Don- Reno, NV

 

[DonTom]

WE recharge at the local bar! Haven't had a problem in 200 years

Yep. The old technology has it advantages too.

The motto from the Airheads (a club for my 1971 BMW motorcycle) is "Simple by Choice".

-Don- Reno, NV

 

[RayIN]

View attachment 2437416

WE recharge at the local bar! Haven't had a problem in 200 years

A guy would have to have real muscles to pedal those for very far. The gear ratio is terrible.

 

[DonTom]

ebike batteries are not LiFeP04

That is because less KWH for the size and weight in a LifeP04.

The SS battery will solve that issue too, as they are lighter for the same KWH.

-Don- Reno, NV