Building an Estate Fence 4 Rail

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djw2112

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Joined
Dec 30, 2018
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1,166
Location
East Texas
After looking at many pics of styles of fencing and weighing the cost and DIY one man job, i think i have settled on the style fence i want to build.  Its called an estate fence 4 rail (sample image included).  I like it because its one of the easiest fences to build, its also less expensive, and if i ever want privacy on one section of it, i dont have to take down the fence, i can just add pickets.  I have not decided on white posts and yellow rails or vise versa, but something like that. 

So now i am just trying to get an idea or post placement. I want to use 2x6x8 and 2x6x16 staggard for strength, and i also dont want to do any cuts unless i have to.  So i sort of layed it out using the paint program for a 24ft section, 2 24ft sections will cover the back of the property and be just inside the property line , see pic.... 

Check out the pic and let me know what you think of my measurments, i might be making it too complicated.
 

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Be careful with fences,, counties & cities will charge taxes based on the footage,, so much a running foot, can add up quickly.>>>Dan
 
Utclmjmpr said:
Be careful with fences,, counties will charge taxes based on the footage,, so much a running foot, can add up quickly.>>>Dan

Thank you for that, that is something i did not think about.  I am still researching ways to save on taxes and i forgot to ask when i was at the clerks office today, dang. 
 
AND TO ADD INSULT TO INJURY,,you get to pay the tax EACH year!!  Over time you get to pay for that fence many times over,,AND you get to maintain it!!. What a deal huh??>>>D
 
I get what you are trying to do, but your numbers are a little off if you don't want to do cuts.  From the outside edge of the first post to the middle of the 2nd post would be 8'.  Then the third post would be 16' from the edge of the first post to the center of the 3rd post.  And so on. You still may have to trim the boards though, as often lumber may be as much as a 1/2" longer than the stated length. If you don't trim, the last post may be and you will have an overhang.  Also the last post would be moved in 1 3/4" if you want the lumber to be even with the edge of the last post.
 
maddog348 said:
Fencing IN ?? ~~  Fencing OUT ?? ~~ Just for the looking at.

Just fencing as its a 4 rail fense so no privacy.

Thanks sarg that is easier to remember :)
 
Arch Hoagland said:
How did you determine the property line where the fence is going?

What state are you in?

In Texas

I was able to find 3 of the original markers, the only one i did not have was the rear left.  So i used a construction app for my android phone to get the diagnal of 100 by 50 lot and that came out to 111.8  I had to buy a 100ft measuring tape, i measured 100ft diagnal from front right to rear left, then used my normal tape to get the other 11.8 ft  I will put the fence inside that mark just to be sure.  I think with 3 official marks the 4th should be pretty close.

Walmart has a good deal on the 100ft tape, it even has alittle removable steak you can use and then it just snaps right back on the reel when done, $14


 
The fun comes when you have a corner lot,(like mine) with easements on two sides.  Out of a full acre (like mine) you get much less usable land when figuring loss on two sides and the rounded corner.>>>Dan
 
Utclmjmpr said:
The fun comes when you have a corner lot,(like mine) with easements on two sides.  Out of a full acre (like mine) you get much less usable land when figuring loss on two sides and the rounded corner.>>>Dan

Yeah that totally sucks, i would not want that at all.
 
I got the first two corner posts done today, came out good just hope they had time to set before the wind came up as i left after dark and my braces were good but not the best work i have done.  I only went down 12 inches and i put some gravel in the bottom as well. 

Each post takes exactly 1 40lb bag of quickcrete slow drying (not the fast stuff) 

Regarding spacing between posts since i want them to be evenly distributed i  figured i might do something like this

from the outside edge of the first post to the center of post 2 is 5ft then it is center to center 8 ft until the last panel section which is 5ft from center to end of run (outside post at other end)

looks like this for a 50ft span 
| = post 
o = outside edge post 
c = center post

o  c  c c  c  c c  o
|5|8|8|8|8|8|5|

and that adds up to 50 ft


Pretty much what sargeW was saying :)  just a little adjustment

I just happened to think i did not really allow that much for the 2 inch rails,  only about 1 3/4 inches from property line.  Since they are not exactly 2 inches i think it should be fine. 

And the part of the fence that is going to be against my neighbors fence ill have to do in premade panels and concrete them in afterwards because there will be no way to screw the rails from the back side which would be against her fence.  So ill build the panel then connect it to the post and then concrete the whole thing at once with braces.

Have a look at this picture, see how much of my neighbors stuff is on my property, even her 4x4 posts are alittle on my property, and especially her fishtail driveway is for sure.

Also here is a pic of how i fixed my free standing pvc water pipe that noone ever supported, it was just loose in the wind (very bendy)  so i used some left over pvc that i had about 3 ft long (removed the nozzle) and slid it over the little pipe and very carefully tapped on it slowly with a hammer, all the while feeling for any resistance at all in case i hit the pipe below ground.  No resistance at all so looks like i got lucky, put the nozzle back and filled it up with gravel, it already had the insulation on it so that will keep the stone for damaging the pipe.  Very solid now....




 

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And here are the first two post settings..  I am really out of breath and back hurting but what do ya do when you are a one man band... you just get it done!!  I was sending the video to my dad.  He is getting too old for projects like this but i know he likes to look and be involved so i keep him involved.  :)

https://youtu.be/xX51cDeOXGA

 
Well im getting there slowly but surely... It got too late and was getting cold so i had to stop, 2 more posts for the back side.  The digging is easy but everything else like the lifting is kicking my butt.  I really should hire someone to help me but i cant afford them.

 

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$163 is the estimate for the fence rails using 2x6x8 and 2x6x16 mixed.    So i looked at using 1x6 both sizes instead, that is way more expensive $204  and i dont get it, why would 1x6 be more than 2x6!  So i looked at 2x4 in both sizes and that only saves me about $50 at $112 and 2x4 would look funny anyway. 

So then i looked at possibly using pvc for the rails so i looked at 2" and 2.5 inch pvc, that is even more expensive because each piece is cheaper but they only come in 10ft lengths and i would need a ton of them. Plus i would have to drill a bunch of big holes in the 4x4's and they would have to line up perfectly, too much of a pain.

I even thought about using some kind of wire as the rails but that is more expensive than anything else because i would need something about approx as big around as a quarter, otherwise it would look wierd.

So it appears $163 and 2x6x8 and 2x6x16 is the less expensive way to do this. 
 
djw2112 said:
$163 is the estimate for the fence rails using 2x6x8 and 2x6x16 mixed.    So i looked at using 1x6 both sizes instead, that is way more expensive $204  and i dont get it, why would 1x6 be more than 2x6!  So i looked at 2x4 in both sizes and that only saves me about $50 at $112 and 2x4 would look funny anyway. 

So then i looked at possibly using pvc for the rails so i looked at 2" and 2.5 inch pvc, that is even more expensive because each piece is cheaper but they only come in 10ft lengths and i would need a ton of them. Plus i would have to drill a bunch of big holes in the 4x4's and they would have to line up perfectly, too much of a pain.

I even thought about using some kind of wire as the rails but that is more expensive than anything else because i would need something about approx as big around as a quarter, otherwise it would look wierd.

So it appears $163 and 2x6x8 and 2x6x16 is the less expensive way to do this.

PVC would sag in time. Are you using Pressure Treated for the entire fence?
 
Rene T said:
PVC would sag in time. Are you using Pressure Treated for the entire fence?

I didnt know about the sagging...  yes pressure treated for all of it....  I have a ton of painting to do today lol..... I may also have to redo one corner post, its been 24 hours and its a bit wobly, i meant to put screws in the 4x4 before i put it in concrete but i forgot, ill wait to see if it stiffens up, if not ill pull it out and redo it.

19 boards to paint i better get after it.  :)
 
Unless things have change ....

I was always told to never paint treated wood. The paint will peel.
 
Gizmo100 said:
Unless things have change ....

I was always told to never paint treated wood. The paint will peel.

I think unless it's dry. Most PT is what we say "pond dried". It's soaking wet. Do not dry it by putting it in the sun. They'll warp like a pretzel.  Put in a shaded area and separate each board with wooden slats. Let them sit for a couple of weeks at least.  Then use a good primer then a finish coat. You could do the final coat after they are mounted.
 
Yes i have experienced the warping like crazy before but only from my local supplier, the lumber is very wet.  But from places like lowes it seems its already dried out since it is kept inside as Rene suggests. 

However this time for some reason its not so bad, so far we will see because i have 6 16 footers on my truck right now and its sunny and 65 degrees.  I strapped them tight with rope and put a screw in them at the bottom to hold them together, i should prob do the top side as well. 

The prob i have is that someone else picked out the lumber (they were nice enough to deliver it) and they picked total junk.  Knots, holes, cracks galore, two of the 16 footers were so badly cracked that i had to cut them.  The 8 footers were in better shape but still had alot of knots in them.

I was going to say i dont know how it did this but i do know how.  I was off on one post by 4 inches and so now ill have to do cutting.  I marked the center of the posts on the stringer, i maked with organge paint on the ground, and i even put a little flag in the ground for center of post,  and still screwed up.  My mistake was this post was 5th post down from the non neighbor side of the lot, i wanted to measure one last time before i dug so what did i do.  I was too lazy to walk down to the other end and get my long tape measure so i used my short tape measure and measured from the closer end, huge mistake.  This forced me to move my hole 4 inches over and that was wrong, the original marking was correct i should have gone with it.

It is a beautiful day today, a good day to get things done but i am forced to take the day off.  Yesterday my back and knees hurt so bad i could hardly get out of the truck when i got home, and getting up the steps was a real adventure.  I got up this morning at 9am, had a poptart, went back to bed and woke up again at 330 pm, and only because it was hot in here.  I dont know why i push myself so dang hard, i know better and one day im gonna calapse doing this and just lay there until somone finds me, its just stupid.

A few things i have leaned so far: (especially a one man job)

1. Always measure from the same end/place every time.
2. Dont use 16 footers, it will be more expensive using 8's but 16's are too heavy and you will hurt yourself.
3. If the wood is wet (it will be obvious when you touch it) and you have to use it right away, install it all on the fence with a few screws, then you can come back later and paint each one when it dries out and it wont be warped.
4. I did notice some peeling in a few places so dont paint wet lumber, let it dry out as rene suggested above in a shady place for a few weeks or refer to item 3 above.
5. Only order what you can use for that day, i made the mistake of getting all my lumber delivered at once.  Then when the day was done i had to load up what was not used on my truck and take it home.  My truck looks like something from the beverly hillbillys.  Save your labor, only get what you can use.
6. Always carry red flags and extra rope with you, i had both but if my rope would have broken i did not have a backup.
7. Put a few heavy duty screws in the bottom of  the post a few inches below where the level of the concrete will be. These will help secure your post to the concrete and make the post stiffer. The down side is if you have to remove the post it will be alot harder to do.
8. If you are digging in soft ground (took me 1 minute to dig a 12 inch hole, very soft). Put some big gravel or stone in the bottom of the hole for it to drain and also make the hole alittle bit bigger on the bottom than on the top.  This will also help secure the post more security, in soft ground posts can blow over with a heavy wind.
9. This job seems simple to the eye but if you can get help, get it. If i could afford to pay day labor to help i would.
10. Dont overdo it, do only so much in a day and stop.

I am sure before this is over i will learn other lessons, however this will also make my other sides of the fence go easier when i do them.

You can see in the pic the unpainted 16 footers, i was trying to hang them so i would not have to load them but i ran out of daylight.





 

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