Buying a used RV. How to determine fair pricing?

2labs-FRF

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Jul 27, 2013
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Hello all.
Newer member and first time poster here. My wife and I are about to venture into the RV world with our first purchase after a couple rental experiences. We have looked at a couple of previously owned RV's and found a 2004 Tiffin Allegro Bay in cherry condition with less than 20,000 miles on it. We really like it and would like to make an offer. The question is where/how do we determine a fair market value? This unit is 10 years old, but in uncommonly good condition. I believe the owner is asking way too much and need info to support a more equitable offer. Where do I go?

A related question:  What should I be on the lookout for with a RV of this vintage given that it has been in cold storage (covered) for most of it's life? Don't want to start out with a "money pit" purchase!
Thanks!!!    Scott
 
Welcome to the group!!

You could start with N.A.D.A. and get some ball park figures based on depreciation alone. Do NOT add any options when using NADA.  PPL Motor Homes also list recent sales prices. Other online sales outfits show asking prices. The condition is everything so expect to pay more than NADA for an RV in "uncommonly good" condition. 

The present owner might be asking more than you think it's worth, but he may have an outstanding loan on it and does not want to end up paying off the difference between the selling price and the amount owed. (This is often referred to as being "underwater").

An inspection by an independent person or persons of the coach part and obtaining the maintenance records are good places to start. Tires greater than 7 years old (based on the date code stamped into them and NOT the condition of the treads) is a common reason to offer less. Those 6 -22.5 inch tires would likely go for close to $4000-5000 a set. At 20K miles the tread will be pristine and I would almost bet they are the originals (10 years old).

In the end, the fair market price is simply the price which a purchaser like you is willing to pay.
 
There is an RV Buyers checklist in the forum Library. Get a copy and use it to inspect the coach carefully. Get an experienced RVer to help, or hire a mobile RV tech or professional RV inspector to help. Professional Inspectors aren't available everywhere, but some areas have them.
 
scottt said:
The question is where/how do we determine a fair market value? This unit is 10 years old, but in uncommonly good condition. I believe the owner is asking way too much and need info to support a more equitable offer. Where do I go?
The fair market value does not exist. A fair price is one that both the buyer and seller agree upon. Start out by making an offer you are comfortable with. The worst thing he could say is no.
What should I be on the lookout for with a RV of this vintage given that it has been in cold storage (covered) for most of it's life? Don't want to start out with a "money pit" purchase!
You have got the question backwards. An RV that has not been used much will have a lot more problems than one that was used regularly. And covering an RV is not a good thing to do. The cover will scratch the paint job and hold moisture in. Personally I would be wary of a 10 year old RV with only 20k miles on it.
 
Thanks all for the feedback!  It is much appreciated.  ALFA, I did a NADA report some time ago. You state that one should not add options when using NADA. Could you clarify why this is the case?  Obviously, this makes a big difference in the price you end up with.

A point of clarification:  When I said the unit was covered, I meant it was under a roof (storage shed)

For an RV that has been in storage much of the time, what are some of the service pitfalls I should be particularly aware of as GARY RV alluded to?  Tires, as pointed out, are one biggie. What else?

Thanks again for the feedback!!

Scott
 
Re storage:
Basically anything rubber or flexible continues to age whether in use or not, and some materials get stiff when not flexed regularly. Furthermore,  things like engines, transmissions, rear axles and hydraulic systems often depend on normal operation to distribute the lubricants internally,  and lack of use can expose surfaces rust or allow contaminants to cling in one spot for long periods. It also can let seals dry out or get misshapen from being under pressure in one position for extended periods. Just how much of a worry that should be is debatable and I personally don't think its a big thing, but there are recorded cases where problems have occurred because of lack of use. The standard precaution is to replace belts and hoses if they've been sitting too long. Tires too, if practical.

re NADA:
Two issues here. First, you have to determine what was in fact an option on the RV in question. The online NADA RV Guide mostly uses a universal list of possible options and makes no attempt to filter the list for any specific RV (they are slowly changing that for new models). If you select an awning or a/c from the list, the price estimator will add it whether it was originally an option or not. Second, an RV dealer doesn't much care if an item was an option unless it is a fairly unique feature. RVs are priced "as typically equipped", which often includes at least a few options on some models. Modern RVs are typically very well equipped and there isn't much on the option list that isn't typical.  The bottom line is that if you tick off everything on the possible option list that is actually on your RV, you will almost surely end up with an hugely inflated price. And if you choose nothing, you are probably within several hundred dollars anyway.
 
You could check his service records.  Even though it was not driven much he should have serviced it every year.  We have a membership campground where many people live within 60 miles.  If they only go there their rigs are used but not driven much.  You would really need to knoww the details.  If private party you can tell a lot by talking to the seller.  If an RV lot who knows?
 
This is my first post and hope this will shed some light on your search. i just purchased a class a that is beautiful(it's all in the eye of the beholder). it's been sitting for the biggest part of 4 years and has needed several things fixed even though it was stored inside. my largest expense so far has been 6X22.5 tires ouch!  i knew they were needed most will. the dash air was toast all the seals are rotted/failed lines hoses,dryer,etc it will be over a thousand $ to get going,flush fluids,and the list is ongoing. so far with my good deal...we are pushing about $8k  in repairs and many diy fixes. be prepaired if it's been sleeping for close to 10 years you may have fun waking it up. i would hire a pro and think it would be money well spent or someone who know their way around an rv. i have spent several hours searching the web for diy fixes and have saved money. if you are a do it yourself  kinda guy you may be ok if you need to farm out repairs open your wallet or have the plastic ready. repair shops in my area are charging $100.-$125. per hour and hide the coach in the repair shop? mobile guys seem to be a little less and come to you so you can see what they are doing and ask questions as they work. as in another post the cover may not have been good. going on about 10 years and still learn something new most everyday. i read a post somewhere that said these were projects? either way i am glad we purchased it and looking forward to the highway. good luck on your search there are many types out there for sale so keep looking and go with your gut. a private owner should be able to tell you about  the quirks god and bad.  dealers,not so much it's just another unit to them.
 
Alfa38User said:
Welcome to the group!!

You could start with N.A.D.A. and get some ball park figures based on depreciation alone. Do NOT add any options when using NADA.  PPL Motor Homes also list recent sales prices. Other online sales outfits show asking prices. The condition is everything so expect to pay more than NADA for an RV in "uncommonly good" condition. 

The present owner might be asking more than you think it's worth, but he may have an outstanding loan on it and does not want to end up paying off the difference between the selling price and the amount owed. (This is often referred to as being "underwater").

An inspection by an independent person or persons of the coach part and obtaining the maintenance records are good places to start. Tires greater than 7 years old (based on the date code stamped into them and NOT the condition of the treads) is a common reason to offer less. Those 6 -22.5 inch tires would likely go for close to $4000-5000 a set. At 20K miles the tread will be pristine and I would almost bet they are the originals (10 years old).

In the end, the fair market price is simply the price which a purchaser like you is willing to pay.
There have been a number of good suggestions provided and of note are those from "Gary RV Roamer" as he goes into detail on why a low mileage unit "may" not be as good as it looks and some of the issues with NADA pricing. I don't totally agree with Gary's comments regarding NADA but I do disagree on one comment and feel he missed another important NADA consideration.

Most people do misunderstand or use NADA pricing information incorrectly. As Gary stated, the common options included as standard equipment are included in the base NADA price. A small number of premium (high cost) options should be considered in pricing or at a minimum in a purchase decision. As an example a hydronic heating system may be an option and worthy of adding to a unit's value. Lower cost options are best left out of the NADA pricing equation.

You also have to be aware that NADA pricing is based upon "dealer" sales and its averaged across North America. These prices do not reflect private sale pricing which lack many of the advantages a dealer may offer. As an example, in my own recent 9 year old MH purchase, I was able to see the inspection report from when the unit was taken in on trade and all of the work orders showing what had been done to the unit. Their clean-up, repairs and new tires cost the dealership $13k. Most private sellers will not invest that kind of money in a unit they are selling though you'll likely have to do those same things out of you pocket, effecting the true purchase cost. The dealer also through in a starter kit with many of the base essentials required for a new MH and a 4-year nationally recognized warranty. I was also able to park at the dealer location for several days to experience a 3 hour introduction where one of their techs demonstrated how each and every button and item on the coach worked. During my next two days camped there I received answers to any questions that arose and when I spotted a scrape in the clear coat that was not previously noticed, they immediately called in a paint and body guy to address it. Private sellers simply cannot offer a similar level of service and that too impacts the value. As a safety note here, the value of the dealer service is dealer dependent - for some dealers it may even be a negative.

As an example of the above, the unit I ended up purchasing has a hydronic heating system (optional) and had a washer/dryer prep cabinet changed out for a larger cabinet equipped with a stacker laundry set. Below are the NADA number for the base unit as well as the same unit with these two costly options, both important to us.
NADA (base)     List: $331,185    Low: $112,690    Avg.: $135,770
NADA (w/options)  List: $331,185    Low: $117,020    Avg.: $140,990
As a side note, all my pricing negotiations referenced the base price only.

Now, onto the price and more importantly the amount of work you are willing to invest and your negotiation skills.

A fair price is simply a compromise between the asking and offer price that both the seller and buyer have agreed they can live with. I see myself as a hard negotiator and my motto over the years has been, "If you don't walk out the door, you have not gotten the best deal possible."

First, you must educate yourself on what comparable (virtually the same) units are currently available and form a basis for comparison, such as the NADA pricing. If I am looking at a number of units where year and model may differ, a spreadsheet that shows the delta to the NADA pricing helps identify pricing position. When I went to look at a MH, I was armed with this pricing
analysis and was able to easily demonstrate my purchase alternatives to the seller - you never want the seller to think his unit is your only option.

Secondly, figure out what the seller's weaknesses and your strengths. The dealer's weakness might be things such as how long they have been sitting on this unit while your advantages might be things like a comparable unit being offered elsewhere at a better price. If you make an offer, be sure to include an out based upon any deficiencies that may be identified during a professional inspection. It is also helpful to set a target price before making your offer and firmly stick to it.
 
You also have to be aware that NADA pricing is based upon "dealer" sales and its averaged across North America.

This may be true if you are using the purchased paper version such as those used by dealers and banks but... The internet version available to most of us seems to be straight depreciation probably starting with the published MSRP (already a somewhat inflated figure as the units are seldom sold for that price even on a brand new unit) and not market sales. Who are these "dealers" that supply sales numbers to NADA? They might be a very small proportion of the total dealerships/sales and thus not very accurate to begin with, and probably never on used units.

This is even more important for a person new to RV and RV pricing who may have NO idea what is standard and what is not. How do you suggest a person determine what items were standard and what were optional, especially in an older unit where brochures etc are not available?

I believe in the KISS principal and try and judge for myself if the "extra's"  are worth adding in or not. Most aren't, IMHO, hence the recommendation to not add any in except for miles on a GASOLINE powered vehicle and discount even that as millage that is to low for the years means the unit was likely left standing, not a good thing!!
 
On the subject of options, I'd note that Lazy Days stated, and demonstrated, that they don't even consider satellite system. I had a Winegard Travel'r (new) on my last trade in; thry ssid "remove it or not with no impact on trade in". So, I removed it.  This was a $1, 300 plus item that is almost always an option. Note that this trade in was a five year old MH in good condition, not something they were likely to wholesale.

Ernie
 
Thanks to all for taking the time to comment. Alot of good information and certainly many points to ponder before making any decisions.

Scott
 
Common sense method to get a ballpark price.. study the local private and dealer classified prices.  You're going to be looking in there anyway right?  Look at the prices even on the RV's that are the wrong color/brand/size/style for you.  It will still give you an idea of the market.  Knock off maybe 10% give or take from the listed asking prices because people usually are willing to bargain.  These prices are affected by all the real life year-season-economy-local supply/demand-etc stuff unlike a book price. Even a browse through ebay completed auctions might give you a rough idea.  You can see the red prices that didn't sell, and the green prices the sold stuff went for.  Works to get ballpark prices not just for RV's but cars or anything else..  It isn't perfect but works for me.  Like it was said there isn't really an exact "fair market" price for anything.
 
aggiedad said:
PPL Motorhomes has listings of their past sales with prices. Since they are strictly a consignment seller, their prices are pretty much on target of real market value. Here is the price page link: http://www.pplmotorhomes.com/sold/class-a-motor-homes.htm

That is a nice site. Thanks. I like the way the RVs for sale are separated by category, then you get one small pic, but most importantly the price, the floor plan and length. Personally, I find that much quicker and better to evaluate an RV than looking through fifty pictures to figure out the floor plan.
 

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