Changing brake pads

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dannyboy

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Joined
May 16, 2010
Posts
23
The mechanic said my brake pads were in desperate need of changing on my Winnebago (24') class C  Ford E350 chassis all disk brakes and tallied the estimate to about $1100.  That seemed a bit steep to me so I popped the wheel off the front and confirmed his comment that there were about 4mm remaining on the pads.  I also confirmed that I could get the front wheels off and do those pads myself.  Two questions:

1)  What is the appropriate remaining thickness on the pad when one should replace them on these motorhomes?
2)  How does one remove the twin wheels on the rear?  Any tricks?  I've never done those.

Thanks for your help.  It seems like I should be able to do the brakes myself for a lot less than having someone else do them.
 
If you're half way mechanically inclined this shouldn't be an issue.  The calipers are straight forward (in my opinion) although if you want to turn the rotors you're going to of course get a little more involved.

As far as the duals are concerned chances are they are "hub pilot" wheels and are also pretty straight forward with one possible exception.  I'm not sure about motorhomes but on large commercial vehicles it's common for the left side to use left hand threads and the right side to use right hand threads on the lug studs.  Since this is a Ford chasis you might also find that your parking brakes on the rear are actually drum/shoe and while  you're in there you'll probably want to adjust those or change the shoes if somebody drove with the parking brake on (that never happens does it?).

I think a lot of the cost of what your mechanic quoted you was probably for removing and turning the rotors.  Disk brakes themselves are pretty simple and easy to change pads on.  I know it's not a good comparison but on my bike I can change the front brake pads in less than 30 minutes and be back out killing bugs, of course I don't have to pull wheels to do it.
 
4mm is pretty thin.  Thinner than I would trust due to heat cracks and such.  I would replace them.  Not worth it to let them go to save a few bucks now and take care of it later. 

No offense, but if you are unfamilar with how to remove the dual rear wheels, maybe diving into a brake job is not something you should be taking a chance on.

I'm not saying to pay the $1100.  I'm saying don't get in over your head.  Properly working brakes are imperative.  Are you willing to take the chance?  Something to think about.

Many may say "slapping new pads on" is all it takes.  Many get away with doing just that.  There is more to it than that if you want it done right.

Your call.
 
No offense taken.  I'm pretty mechanically handy and do the brakes on the cars and motorcycles when due.  I just need some guidance on the motorhome as I have never had to remove the twin rear wheels before.  Being much bigger and heavier, the motorhome is a bit intimidating but should be like any other disk brake when I get to it I would think. 
 
Hmmm, no mention of cleaning and lubing the the caliper, checking the pins for wear, cleaning and packing the wheel bearings, and the other items included in a proper brake job. So we're comparing a real brake job for $1100 and changing the pads. Apples and oranges comparison. Brakes are a pretty important item to have working properly. Saving a few dollars by doing only a partial job is not cost effective in the long run.

Ken
 
Here's a couple of things to consider from my experience in having a brake shop in a prior life:

1) Tools - there are few specialty tools needed to do a proper job, depending on the brake system. Clamps, bleeder wrenches, large lock nut pliers, snap ring pliers, etc. come to mind, especially with a large rear axle assembly.

2) Floor jacks and jacks stands - there is no substitute for the proper equipment to safely raise and support a large brake job. Solid concrete pads are the best, asphalt not so much, and chocks and level are critical. My brother's uncle-in-law killed himself in my brother's driveway with his Class C not supporting it correctly and getting pinned when it fell. Saddest part - my brother had all the safety equipment and the uncle did not use it. Having a helper close by might have saved him.

3) Don't disassemble everything until you understand how it goes back together. Don't take apart both sides of the axle at the same time unless you are totally familiar with how everything works. Use a camera to be sure. Nothing beats having a pattern of reassembly to go by.

4) Don't reuse rubber parts, use new, and if rubber hoses are not supple or are cracked, replace them, and replace them in sets (both front, etc.) Torn caliper boots are a no-no.

5) If disc rotors are discolored or have heat checks on them, replace them. If they have been that hot, the bearings probably need a really good going over or replacement.

6) If you decide to rebuild calipers or brake cylinders, try to flush all the old fluid out with new. And be sure you use the correct brake fluid for you application.

The job is not hard, just time consuming. Don't get in a huge hurry and use the proper wrenches on the fasteners. They will have been hot and tight. Then use the correct torque to tighten them back.

Ask the $1100 to itemize the repairs. I can see a couple hundred dollars of labor but that looks like the upper edge. If there are new rotors, drum turning, and caliper rebuilds in there, maybe not. You can also have a brake inspection and have him point out the issues. We did that for every customer who wanted one and clearly explained the reason and logic for what needed repair. At that price, it's not unreasonable to ask for it.

Just remember that if you are not real sure about what you are doing, there's a lot at stake with the consequences of your mistakes. Use your best judgment and you will be fine.

Everybody does this job their own way, I used to have to do it and guaranty it. I had very few "workmanship" related comebacks. Your mileage may vary!  8)

Those are some of my methods, it's certainly not everything you need to know, and others will have their own experiences to contribute.

 
A good mechanic will always stand in front of his brake jobs!

Ken
 
skyking4ar2 said:
Those are some of my methods, it's certainly not everything you need to know, and others will have their own experiences to contribute.

Your post was very well put.  I am an ex-mechanic and have also done more brake jobs than I can count.  I still have people come to me and ask me how much I would charge them to "slap on a set of pads".  I cringe at that question.  I ask them how much are they willing to spend.  If they say they want the $20 economy pads and nothing else, I don't even turn on the light in the garage.  If they ask what I mean by that question, I explain what could be involved with the job done correctly (the only way I will do it) and the cost goes up accordingly.  I only use quality parts I am comfortable with.  I have the tools.  I have the expertise.  I refuse to be responsible for anything bad happening to them or their family due to saving them a few dollars.  I won't do it.  Too much at stake.

They would get my parts discount and probably save a bundle on the labor rate alone compared to a shop.  I'm not trying to get rich.  Most times it's a favor.  I have no problem with that.  But my work ethic stays the same. 

Bottom line is I just wanted to make sure dannyboy would be safe.  I wanted to hear he trusts his own workmanship and is willing to bet the farm on it. 

 
Thanks for the input and comments, points all good.  I rummaged through the Ford shop manual on the vehicle and found the details on removing the dual wheels that I needed.  That was the key for me to doing the rear brakes.  Other than bigger, these things are a pretty straight forward brake job which I've done on cars and motorcycles.  Extra caution and safety is required, jacks and stands that can handle the weight and chocks to keep things in place.    I've got the equipment and time so sounds like I should be able to handle it. 

What doesn't make much sense, is the shop manual says the minimum limit on the pads is 1mm.  That sounds outrageously thin to me.  Judging from the comments above, 4mm would be an OK time to replace the pads.  Any last comments on thickness?
 
If you're careful about measuring the thickness in several places on all the pads, and you inspect them to see that there's no cracking or missing chunks, sure, 1mm is probably OK.  Pads rarely wear uniformly.  I replace mine before they get to that point.
 
Take a look at a new set of pads for your application (all disk pads are not created equally) and check them against yours (or eyeball, or whatever). The thinner they get, the more heat is generated when they are applied, then the rotors get hot, then they heat check....you get the idea.

They are cheap enough and your rig important enough that if you went through the trouble of tearing it down, put the new ones on and be done with it.

Remember that you will have to compress your calipers to get some clearance for the new pads. The easiest way to do that is have the calipers off and sometimes you have to remove the brake hose (which you want to avoid or you'll have to bleed the brakes). Use an old pad for leverage and a C-clamp to gently, emphasis gently, compress the caliper piston back in, just enough to get the clearance you need, being sure not to get it cocked (that's what the old pad is for).

Have the cover off the master cylinder but be sure to cover it with a rag or something because all the brake fluid you splash on paint will eat it. Pressing the caliper piston back  is going to displace brake fluid and the top off the master cylinder or very loose will relieve the pressure.

The last safety item is if you should decide to rebuild your calipers. When you use air pressure to pop that piston out, have that old pad and some rags blocking the travel of the piston or you will hurt yourself or the shop when that piston flies under pressure unrestrained.

If I had not watched a car come off the jack stands when someone was breaking caliper bolts loose, sprayed brake fluid on paint and bought a paint job, or sent a mechanic to the ER with a smashed hand (it won't restrain a piston at 125 psi), there might not be so much to tell.  8)

Jammer makes a good point - if there is not uniform wear across your pads, that can suggest a cocked or sticking caliper.
 
I will not risk going that thin on any brake pad.  The majority of your braking power is supplied by the front brakes due to weight transfer upon braking. 

You sound pretty confident. I am beginning to think you have a good handle on this.  Just remember...
Stopping a motorcycle is a lot easier than stopping a Class C.  Take your time, use quality replacement parts, don't skimp on procedure, and you should be fine.  If you get hung up on something, please don't take a chance on anything.  Stop what your doing and inquire somehow and/or somewhere.  Don't put yourself or your family in it and go down the road without knowing your workmanship is up to par.  It's just not worth it otherwise.
 
I would like to add a couple of things. The first thing I would do once the wheels were off is open the bleed screws. You might need a torch to heat caliper and water hose to quench. I would never push that old brown moisture contaminated brake fluid back through the ABS module and out the master cylinder. Once the the bleed screws have been broken loose and the calipers removed one at a time and not hanging on the flex hose,  open bleed screw ,push back the piston and close bleed screw again imediately and bleeding will not be necessary. The fluid you waste is garbage anyway. Once everything is competed have someone help pump the brake peddle while you open bleed screw until brake fluid is clear and clean. It will require a quart or two  of brake fluid but that is a fraction of the cost of a brake flush and thousands of dollars cheaper than an ABS module. If you don't have ABS brakes it is still a good practice. Moisture helps seize calipers and rot brake lines from inside out. Moisture isn't a friend of brake componenets. To quote JUDGE Marilyn Millian of the people court The Cheap is often the Expensive. Good Luck.
 
Spend the money for a service manual for your chassis and then follow the directions therein. You will not regret it and you will know the job is done according to the manufacturers instructions and know it is done right!
 
dannyboy said:
Judging from the comments above, 4mm would be an OK time to replace the pads.  Any last comments on thickness?
I have always felt it is much better to replace brakes too soon than too late.

BTW I just paid to have my front brakes redone. New pads, new rotors, new seals, rebuilt calipers. $750.
 
Generally you squeeze the caliper, in place, before removal. They almost always have access to one pad for a c-clamp. I have seen rear calipers with built in e-brake that the piston was pushed in by twisting it. Manual is good idea, truck enthusiast forums for your chassis are helpful when Chilton or Haynes get vague. As mine did for wheel bearing torque procedure.
 
skyking4ar2 said:
I just reread the OP, after Tom's post about his cost, and do I read correctly, OP,  that your chassis is four wheel disk brakes?

..and Tom, did you find that a reasonable price?
Reasonable price was not my first priority in looking for a mechanic. My first priority is that I want a place that will let me stay in my RV while it is being worked on and if it takes more than one day then I want to be able to spend the night in my RV at the repair shop. Many repair shops don't allow this due to "insurance regulations", but many of them do. The place I had the brakes repaired was recommended to me by three different people and that means more to me than price.

My problem with dropping off my RV and leaving it there until they are done is the fact I live in my RV full time and I have three cats in the RV. I can't just drop it off, I would have to find some place to store my cats and then find some place for me to go. It is much easier for me to stay with the cats and the RV. This is why I very rarely take my RV in for service, I prefer to have a mobile mechanic come to me.
 
Tom,

My point about reasonable price was to compare with the original poster's issue with $1100 for his brake job, which he found a little high. But now I am wondering if that was all four corners, and if all the corners were disc brakes.

We have the same problem you do with cats and leaving the rig and that's always a consideration for us, as well. Price is a consideration for us, but not the only consideration.

Kim
 

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