ButchW
Well-known member
Me too..
Butch
Class A Diesel VS. Gas?
- Thread starter Mark2068
- Start date
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If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
Butch
DonTom
Well-known member
Here in this area of Reno, diesel fuel is a litter bit cheaper than 87 gasoline these days. I compared the prices less than an hour ago at several gas stations here.
-Don- Reno, NV
Isaac-1
Well-known member
The only real gas pusher out there was the Workhorse UFO chassis (UFO stood for Universal Fuel Option), which never lived up to its hype (it was intended to provide a gasoline or entry level diesel option on a common flat floor chassis, though the diesel version never did ship). As to the cause for its demise that was a mix of the 2008 economic collapse along with the ever delayed diesel engine option.
Larry N.
Well-known member
Expense is a likely factor, along with the fact that while rear diesel engines have long been perfected, rear gasoline engines have not, often encountering cooling problems. But see, for example, posts #37 & #38 in this thread for more on that. Did you read the entire thread?
Gary RV_Wizard
Site Team
It's equally true that "FRED" motorhomes, i.e. FRont-Engine Diesels, didn't catch on with US buyers. They fared a little better than rear engine gas units, but not much. Super-C coaches still are sold in small numbers, but Class A FREDs are not being offered anywhere that I know of. We could debate the possible reasons, but I think extra cost vs perceived advantages has to be a big part of it. Another more subtle reason may be that much of the American public is still uncomfortable with the use of diesel engines.
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Isaac-1
Well-known member
Gary, I am not sure about that, just before Covid hit I saw where there was a new FRED scheduled for 2021, though I have not followed up to see if it has shipped yet.
Kirk
Well-known member
Check out the Newmar Canyon Star for 2022.
WILDEBILL308
Well-known member
I think these gas versus diesel threads are fun. Mostly it boils down to the owners making rationalizations on why they bought what they did.
I have had both and Yes if it was the only way I could travel I would go back to gas. Till then I am solidley in the diesel camp. My last 2 coaches have been diesel. Last one was 38' and this one is 45'. With the short 38' coach I was in all the lower 48 states and 3 Canadian providence's multiple times and never had a time I couldn't find a place to stay.
I also want to address the "you have to have a little small coach to get in places" BS That is why you have a toad. Why would you want to get into a tiny campground probably not upgraded since it was mostly small pull behind or car camping in a tent and is still dry camping and way out of level? When I can stay at a nice campground with full hookups and level for about the same money. Then drive in and see the sights. I actually don't think of it so much as "camping" as more RV traveling.
Just so the OP knows and understands I do have some experience about this hearer is a short summary of this years travel and we thought of it as a reduced year because of all the problems.
We were in 21 different states some more than once Some in the North East multiple times (Pa.was 4 times and NM was 5. Ok I know NM isn't in the NE but.). 11,620 miles in the RV, 51 campgrounds some more than once.
So yes I would recommend the OP find a nice used diesel and go have some fun. Try driving a Newmar with "Comfort Drive" makes it a even better drive.
Bill
I have had both and Yes if it was the only way I could travel I would go back to gas. Till then I am solidley in the diesel camp. My last 2 coaches have been diesel. Last one was 38' and this one is 45'. With the short 38' coach I was in all the lower 48 states and 3 Canadian providence's multiple times and never had a time I couldn't find a place to stay.
I also want to address the "you have to have a little small coach to get in places" BS That is why you have a toad. Why would you want to get into a tiny campground probably not upgraded since it was mostly small pull behind or car camping in a tent and is still dry camping and way out of level? When I can stay at a nice campground with full hookups and level for about the same money. Then drive in and see the sights. I actually don't think of it so much as "camping" as more RV traveling.
Just so the OP knows and understands I do have some experience about this hearer is a short summary of this years travel and we thought of it as a reduced year because of all the problems.
We were in 21 different states some more than once Some in the North East multiple times (Pa.was 4 times and NM was 5. Ok I know NM isn't in the NE but.). 11,620 miles in the RV, 51 campgrounds some more than once.
So yes I would recommend the OP find a nice used diesel and go have some fun. Try driving a Newmar with "Comfort Drive" makes it a even better drive.
Bill
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Larry N.
Well-known member
I have to disagree -- I think a tremendous amount of objective information was included, in addition to people's opinion -- so it was a mixture.
I'll agree with the Comfort Drive being a great tool, a marvelous feature that helps to ease the tension when driving, especially with gusty winds.
SeilerBird
Well-known member
The huge disadvantage of a FRED is the huge box located between the passenger seat and the drivers seat. It is much more logical to put the engine under the bed in the back. Noise, heat, room and a long drive shaft are huge disadvantages.
Ex-Calif
Well-known member
There are a lot of folks who prefer smaller places. It's no ding at you but it's a preference many have.
The bigger the park and more the infrastructure the more the walking trails and nature has been disturbed. Part of the allure of boondocking is the fact that things are a lot less disturbed by other people.
You state that you fall at the other end of the spectrum which is sort of a roving condominium whereby you see the sights via TOAD. No problem, Horses for Courses.
I personally really can't imagine myself and spouse in anything bigger than about 30 feet.
Isaac-1
Well-known member
Gary RV_Wizard
Site Team
Thanks, Kirk, I hadn't seen that one. Newmar dropped their original FRED model a dozen years ago and I didn't know they restarted it. Tiffin offered a FRED model for several years too, but I don't see one in the current line-up.
Old_Crow
Well-known member
For a park with that location, and so few amenities, Goosenecks sure seems to attract a lot of us.
Kirk
Well-known member
How is it that one must rationalize having bought what they wanted and/or what fit their budget, rather than what you think that they should want? You seem to be one of those who would join the crowd that told me why we were wrong to buy only a 36', gasoline fueled, slide free, class A and what is even more offensive, we loved our lifestyle and kept the wrong rig for all 12 years full-time and a total of 14 years. I guess we are just people who never learn from the experts?
There are many valid reasons for people choosing the RV that they feel is right. With what is being built today, I would buy a diesel powered RV that has air ride, if my budget was unlimited but it still would not pass your approval so I'd still be doing it wrong and I wouldn't even try to justify my choice.
And there are many who choose to downsize from the bigger RVs to something smaller for different valid reasons. The "bigger is better" club would really be indignant if they saw the little travel trailer that we have spent as much as 5 consecutive months living/traveling in.
There are several reasons and I suspect that we will see more of them with other builders. The old FRED didn't have air ride and the new MC does, along with several other major changes. The reviews also say that it has much lower noise levels. I suspect that there are cost savings as well. The big reason for Newmar Canyon Star is that they now have a toy hauler model. According to a Freightliner rep that I spoke with recently, the new MC chassis is the leader for the super C market also. I don't know if that is true. If the Newmar sells well we will see other manufacturers build on it again.
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Alontheway
Well-known member
Very big or very small vehicles are great for diesel options. It is the middle that all the discussion persist. The 3/4 ton trucks mostly.
I loved the unlimited power my cummins made, but I think it was more the turbo, not the diesel that was the factor there. A gas turbo engine will do wonders also, but it just does not exist as a factory option, well, not in 8 cyl version.
While it gets better mpg's the other factors pull that down. On modern diesels the emissions cuts the possible mpg way way down, does harm to the motor by recirculating dirty exhaust and the DEF gets expensive when added to the cost per gallon of fuel. Diesels typically have a larger oil need. Gallons instead of quarts that a gasser needs at oil change... I was about $80 for an oil change.
Diesels run a long time with no need for a tune up (no spark plugs etc), but can be expensive when they are worked on. I never found that to pan out, but I sold before the expensive things came due (injector pump $2,000 and another $2,000+ to have it done - I could do that myself).
I had friend that drove big vehicles for company all his life (box trucks etc), and his last RV was a super-c gasser. 4mpg or so but he swore it was cheaper in the long run than owning a diesel. By then though he had so much money IDT he could see straight...
I loved the unlimited power my cummins made, but I think it was more the turbo, not the diesel that was the factor there. A gas turbo engine will do wonders also, but it just does not exist as a factory option, well, not in 8 cyl version.
While it gets better mpg's the other factors pull that down. On modern diesels the emissions cuts the possible mpg way way down, does harm to the motor by recirculating dirty exhaust and the DEF gets expensive when added to the cost per gallon of fuel. Diesels typically have a larger oil need. Gallons instead of quarts that a gasser needs at oil change... I was about $80 for an oil change.
Diesels run a long time with no need for a tune up (no spark plugs etc), but can be expensive when they are worked on. I never found that to pan out, but I sold before the expensive things came due (injector pump $2,000 and another $2,000+ to have it done - I could do that myself).
I had friend that drove big vehicles for company all his life (box trucks etc), and his last RV was a super-c gasser. 4mpg or so but he swore it was cheaper in the long run than owning a diesel. By then though he had so much money IDT he could see straight...
CharlesinGA
Well-known member
Winnebago in the '90's built a rear engine gas Class A using the Ford 7.5L/460 v8. They experienced a number of fires and WBO repurchased all of them. Eventually re-sold them to Lazy Daze who re-engined them with the Ford V-10. They are rare.
Another rear engine gas class A was the FMC. This, like the GMC coach was an idea ahead of its time. It used a 413 Chrysler V8 and a 3 speed torque flite automatic. It sits low and was well built. Like all older large motorhomes, the engines and especially the transmissions are dated and don't offer the fuel economy or reliability of newer products. One guy who had owned a gas FMC decided to convert it and did a lot of documentation and photos of the installation of a Duramax and 5 speed Allison transmission in his. He covered this on a couple of different forums, including the FMCowners.
Charles
Another rear engine gas class A was the FMC. This, like the GMC coach was an idea ahead of its time. It used a 413 Chrysler V8 and a 3 speed torque flite automatic. It sits low and was well built. Like all older large motorhomes, the engines and especially the transmissions are dated and don't offer the fuel economy or reliability of newer products. One guy who had owned a gas FMC decided to convert it and did a lot of documentation and photos of the installation of a Duramax and 5 speed Allison transmission in his. He covered this on a couple of different forums, including the FMCowners.
Charles
