Coleman Williamsburg Dry Weight Versus Scale Weight

[Stringdriver]

Hi all! New here.
Have a Coleman Americana Williamsburg that claims a dry weight of 1715lbs.
Just stopped at a local building material store and got weighed at a total that is utterly unbelievable.
Meaning there IS NO WAY the difference from the mfg spec sheet and what I was told could POSSIBLY be correct.

So my analytical mind moves to think the mfg. number is grossly misstated. Or, the mfg stated the weight of the trailer without interior appointments. Meaning seat cushions. The number is THAT far off.

Has anyone else found themselves in a similar situation? Wouldn’t a vendor list the trailer weight, dry, with the awning and all interior items included? I know that sounds ludicrous to ask, but I’m genuinely scratching my head about how the numbers could be THAT far off. And I am accounting for one propane tank, battery, etc.

Would love to have some feedback! And much appreciated any help or insight would be.

String

 

[EdJunior]

Welcome String to the forums. So what were your actual numbers, as weighed. Is this a new RV or used? Please provide more information.

 

[Stringdriver]

Hi Ed,
Apologies for the lack of info.

Used. Bought in 1997 - 1994 model.

Garage kept most of its life. In very good to excellent condition

Stated: 1715 lbs
Weighed: 2240

There is ABSOLUTELY no way those numbers could know each other.

Battery: 20lbs +/-
Full bottle: 38lbs
AC: 40lbs +/- (refitted to the storage compartment)
Maybe 100 other pounds of plates, forks, pans, fans

That math simply doesn’t work.

Would love to hear any insight/experience!

Thanks for the welcome!

 

[CharlesinGA]

Hi all! New here.
Have a Coleman Americana Williamsburg that claims a dry weight of 1715lbs.
Just stopped at a local building material store and got weighed at a total that is utterly unbelievable.
Meaning there IS NO WAY the difference from the mfg spec sheet and what I was told could POSSIBLY be correct.

So my analytical mind moves to think the mfg. number is grossly misstated. Or, the mfg stated the weight of the trailer without interior appointments. Meaning seat cushions. The number is THAT far off.

Has anyone else found themselves in a similar situation? Wouldn’t a vendor list the trailer weight, dry, with the awning and all interior items included? I know that sounds ludicrous to ask, but I’m genuinely scratching my head about how the numbers could be THAT far off. And I am accounting for one propane tank, battery, etc.

Would love to have some feedback! And much appreciated any help or insight would be.

String

EDIT: I was researching and typing while you were replying.
This rant is of little value unless you give details. What year/exact model # Coleman do you have? When you weighed it, is the scale a divided scale with segments for front axle, rear axle, trailer axles (like a cat scale) or just one large platform? Did you weigh the entire rig on the scale? or did you unhitch the trailer and pull your tow vehicle off the trailer? Details matter as someone can probably pick out what went wrong.

Manufacturers do make mistakes. What is the GVWR of the trailer (found on the sticker on the front left of the box).

Ok, not knowing, I Googled Coleman Americana Williamsburg and found that this is a very old pop-up camper.

The Coleman Americana Williamsburg is a classic pop-up camping trailer produced during the early-to-mid 1990s (such as the 1993 model). It features an open canvas design with a travel size of roughly 22 feet 8 inches by 6 feet 8 inches, an approximate dry weight of 1,715 pounds, and a reliable hand-crank lift system

This is a 1993 Fleetwood/Coleman brochure for the pop-up models.

This is a 1992 Coleman brochure and lists the Williamsburg at 1705 lbs.

 

[CharlesinGA]

Hi Ed,
Apologies for the lack of info.

Used. Bought in 1997 - 1994 model.

Garage kept most of its life. In very good to excellent condition

Stated: 1715 lbs
Weighed: 2240

There is ABSOLUTELY no way those numbers could know each other.

Battery: 20lbs +/-
Full bottle: 38lbs
AC: 40lbs +/- (refitted to the storage compartment)
Maybe 100 other pounds of plates, forks, pans, fans

That math simply doesn’t work.

Would love to hear any insight/experience!

Thanks for the welcome!

If you have owned it since 1997, why the sudden concern about the weight.?

I'm going to assume you have something more than a lawnmower battery on it, a group 24 battery is 40 to 60 lbs. Some kind of window A/C? Does the trailer have a built in water tank?

The spec sheet for the 1993 model Williamsburg shows a 20 gallon under floor water tank. If that tank happens to be full, that is 160 lbs right there............

 

[UTTransplant]

When we had pop ups, the “dry weight” was laughable. It did not include the propane bottle, the inside stove, the furnace, the AC, etc. I t truly was just the weight of the box and canvas.

 

[Stringdriver]

EDIT: I was researching and typing while you were replying.
This rant is of little value unless you give details. What year/exact model # Coleman do you have? When you weighed it, is the scale a divided scale with segments for front axle, rear axle, trailer axles (like a cat scale) or just one large platform? Did you weigh the entire rig on the scale? or did you unhitch the trailer and pull your tow vehicle off the trailer? Details matter as someone can probably pick out what went wrong.

Manufacturers do make mistakes. What is the GVWR of the trailer (found on the sticker on the front left of the box).

Ok, not knowing, I Googled Coleman Americana Williamsburg and found that this is a very old pop-up camper.

The Coleman Americana Williamsburg is a classic pop-up camping trailer produced during the early-to-mid 1990s (such as the 1993 model). It features an open canvas design with a travel size of roughly 22 feet 8 inches by 6 feet 8 inches, an approximate dry weight of 1,715 pounds, and a reliable hand-crank lift system

This is a 1993 Fleetwood/Coleman brochure for the pop-up models.

This is a 1992 Coleman brochure and lists the Williamsburg at 1705 lbs.

Hi there! Thanks for the reply.

Americana Williamsburg with the electric hydraulic lift system.
Pulled the camper on the scales, hitch-jack down, unhooked from my tow vehicle.

It’s a platform that is used primarily to sell bulk building materials… sand, crushed limestone, etc. the fellow said the scaled weighed almost 2400 until I stepped off the scale. I’m about 190lbs. I have never weighed the camper before. I’d welcome the idea that it weighed heavy, incorrectly.

GVWR on the sticker is 2300
GAWR 2000 with 20.5x8x10 tire 10x6 rims at 50psi, cold
Mfg 11/1994

I bought it in almost new condition in 1997.

I appreciate the replies. I don’t mean to come off as if I’m ranting. It was shocking to hear such a number when all indicators point to 1715+ gear, fluids, fuel, battery.

Much appreciated!

If you have owned it since 1997, why the sudden concern about the weight.?

I'm going to assume you have something more than a lawnmower battery on it, a group 24 battery is 40 to 60 lbs. Some kind of window A/C? Does the trailer have a built in water tank?

The spec sheet for the 1993 model Williamsburg shows a 20 gallon under floor water tank. If that tank happens to be full, that is 160 lbs right there............

If you have owned it since 1997, why the sudden concern about the weight.?

I'm going to assume you have something more than a lawnmower battery on it, a group 24 battery is 40 to 60 lbs. Some kind of window A/C? Does the trailer have a built in water tank?

The spec sheet for the 1993 model Williamsburg shows a 20 gallon under floor water tank. If that tank happens to be full, that is 160 lbs right there............

Hi, Charles.

The newfound concern has to do with my new vehicle. My 2002 Explorer and other vehicles had larger tow capacity and I never really cared how much it weighed. Never checked.

My current vehicle has a tow max of 2,000lbs, so I’m working to be sharp about the numbers. I’ve not weighed the tongue weight yet, either. And I frankly forgot to do that when I weighed the camper. I pulled it this past weekend and it handled beautifully. I have an Echo Bluetooth controller, and that worked fine.

Just had new tires installed yesterday, looking to do a longer pull, so I’m working to be sure I’m all good.

The battery weight you mentioned does make sense. Picked it up this past Friday night. It’s a Group 24.
And my guess on the AC was low until I looked at the spec… comes in at 63lbs.

20 gallon tank was drained before weighing. Water heater has 5 in it because most times I’m filling with water bags.

I’m rusty at this, I will admit. It’s been a shocking 10 years since I’ve pulled it.

Bearings and brakes checked and adjusted recently, so I’m working to check the boxes. The primary box being safety.

Even with the adjusted numbers for the battery and AC, the totals are way off. Perhaps the scale I was on doesn’t get into sub-2,000lb measurements accurately(?)

As always, I sincerely appreciate the replies!

String

 

[Stringdriver]

When we had pop ups, the “dry weight” was laughable. It did not include the propane bottle, the inside stove, the furnace, the AC, etc. I t truly was just the weight of the box and canvas.

Hi there. I’d have to guess that Coleman would have to be accurate with the amenities installed. This model was one of their higher-end offerings. I can see not measuring the add-on cooler-fridge, but I’d guess they would have to include the furnace, water heater, both ranges, etc. (?)

But who knows?

 

[garyr1]

The manufacturer's weight is a conglomeration of the weight of individual components as built. What do you know about the scale that you trust it? When you got the weight slip did you ask if the scale was certified and when it was last certified? I used to go to a small fuel place, the parking space to pay was their scale. I wouldn't trust any weight from it. Scales are precision devices, unless they're treated like that they're just a rough patch of road.

 

[TheBar]

The manufacturer's weight is a conglomeration of the weight of individual components as built. What do you know about the scale that you trust it? When you got the weight slip did you ask if the scale was certified and when it was last certified? I used to go to a small fuel place, the parking space to pay was their scale. I wouldn't trust any weight from it. Scales are precision devices, unless they're treated like that they're just a rough patch of road.

IE: Don't trust any scale that is used to sell by weight.

 

[Stringdriver]

Thank you for the replies and insights! I’ve never weighed a vehicle or trailer before. I didn’t get a weigh slip. Those were $12.99 and I really just wanted an idea. I don’t begrudge the fee, I just didn’t see a need for the slip.

Where do most folks go to get an accurate weight measurement?

 

[DutchmenSport]

The difference in weight is 525 pounds. It is entirely possible for there to be this much difference in weight.

If there is water in the fresh water tank (any at all) a gallon of water weighs a little over 8 pounds a gallon.

Equipment, bedding, pots, pans, tools, hardware, even laundry soap, dish washing soap, shampoo bottles, groceries, ALL add up much, much more quick than most folks realize.

How about the black tank? Considering your camper is previously owned, it's possible it's not been maintained real good and you could have 2 inches or 6 inches of dried "stuff" on the bottom of the tank?

And it's possible the previous owner did some modifications, like adding shelves, dividers, or additions. All of this adds weight. 525 pounds is not excessive. Add your propane tanks and such, and .... it adds up quickly.

 

[Stringdriver]

Hi DutchmenSport.

Thanks for your reply! There wasn’t much, if any, water in the fresh tank (I drained before we left). There isn’t a black tank, and my new approach will be to remove everything possible, calculate my bottle and battery, accurately, and re-weigh.
I did some checking and my AC re-fit is contributing, probably, 65 pounds. There honestly is not much in the camper, but I’m going to strip it all out and check again. I’ve not measured or had any experience with checking items like soaps, shampoo, etc., however, I’d guess it really can add to the overall more than I might think, in passing.

I really appreciate the replies because they help me to consider things I might have overlooked.

Thanks!

 

[Jackiemac]

Look for Cat Scales.

CAT Scale

Network of certified truck scales. Guaranteed accurate with over 1,675 Locations in U.S. and Canada. On-line and mobile scale locator.

catscale.com

 

[Gary RV_Wizard]

Stated: 1715 lbs
Weighed: 2240

Stated where? If you are referring back to a 1994 brochure, you are very likely correct that the UVW (dry weight) number represents some configuration of that model and not necessarily the one you own. Or maybe not even one that was ever built. Back then, there were no federal standards requiring that each individual trailer have its own weight sticker and it be accurate to within 100 lbs. But brochures and websites can still show a dry weight that is much lower than the typical configuration - only the federal certified weight sticker is trustworthy.

That said, most owners drastically underestimate what their trailer weighs once used a few times. Residual water in fresh & waste tanks, propane, odds & ends of gear left onboard, weight of a WD hitch, etc. Maybe not 500 lbs worth, but probably much more than you think.

 

[tlmgcamp1]

OP's post #4 calculates the trailer weight (setting aside the book/reality discrepancy) at around 1900 pounds. OP's post #7 notes the TV tow capacity of 2000 pounds. It would seem that any conversation beyond that realization is moot as the TV is clearly insufficient.

 

[Stringdriver]

Stated where? If you are referring back to a 1994 brochure, you are very likely correct that the UVW (dry weight) number represents some configuration of that model and not necessarily the one you own. Or maybe not even one that was ever built. Back then, there were no federal standards requiring that each individual trailer have its own weight sticker and it be accurate to within 100 lbs. But brochures and websites can still show a dry weight that is much lower than the typical configuration - only the federal certified weight sticker is trustworthy.

That said, most owners drastically underestimate what their trailer weighs once used a few times. Residual water in fresh & waste tanks, propane, odds & ends of gear left onboard, weight of a WD hitch, etc. Maybe not 500 lbs worth, but probably much more than you think.

Hi Gary,

The weight is stated in all the public documents and spec sheets from Coleman.
That’s really where all of this conversation started. A reasonable consumer would tend to believe the specs shown from a reputable manufacturer to be accurate. I think that’s a fair statement, no?

 

[Gary RV_Wizard]

A reasonable consumer would tend to believe the specs shown from a reputable manufacturer to be accurate. I think that’s a fair statement, no?

A reasonable & fair assumption yes, but also a mistaken one. Especially when referring to RV industry practice back in the mid-1990's. Realistically, there are many build options for a given model, and some of them become de facto standard equipment because all dealers order the features they know buyers will like. Plus manufacturers sometimes declare certain features to be mandatory, but don't change the UVW weights in the brochure or ads. That's the major reason why, back in 2008, the feds standardized what is/is-not included in the UVW and required accuracy to plus/minus 100 lbs. Manufacturers quickly learned the only way to do that was to actually weigh the RV as it leaves the factory floor and show that on the federal weight label. Any UVW or CCC in advertising is merely an estimate based on an assumed configuration as of the time the description was created.

I'm not disagreeing with you - just explaining what is and why it is that way. And RV manufacturers have done little to make any of this clear to buyers - it's all glib marketing and little or no engineering specification.

 

[Stringdriver]

Well, that is certainly, at a minimum, disheartening for sure. I’d say color me naive, but I think that would not be a reasonable statement about me, since, as a clear-minded consumer, I’d think that what was stated as a spec (with the accoutrements detailed) would be believable.

I’m going to remove everything from the camper and see just where it lands in weight.

I appreciate EVERYONE’S replies and insights.

Forums are a great resource! I learned a ton about sewing custom kites via a forum and it opened a whole new world that now includes 3 commercial sewing machines and the ability to make just about whatever comes to mind.

Much appreciated!

String

 

[mountainkowboy]

Not that unusual. We had an S&S truck camper that was tagged at 2,700lbs dry weight. At the scale, empty it was just under 3,500lbs and 4,450lbs ready to camp. Newer stuff seems to be closer to true.