Comparing Ram 2500/F250 tow vehicles

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Blaise

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 2, 2013
Posts
122
Location
Upstate NY
I'm kinda new here - this is my second post ...

Been RVing for many years with a small trailer (22 foot, 2 ton) pulled by my dependable Durango. But we're getting a new trailer - a 34 foot monster weighing in at about 7,000 lbs dry ... still not sure how i got talked into that ...  :eek:
It's a PrimeTime Tracer Ultralight (lol) 3150BHD - an "Executive" model ... http://www.primetimerv.com/default.asp?page=products&choice=floorviewer&model=tracer&name=3546&series=Executive

So we need a new tow vehicle. I thought I had myself all decided on a 2013 diesel F-250 King Ranch crew cab, nicely loaded http://shar.es/esg6c
The dealer offered it for $54k, but this has to be ordered ... 6, 8, 10, 12 weeks ... who knows? I'm not really in a hurry, so I can wait - but I'm sure it will be hard  :)

But then - just before placing the order for the F-250, I stopped by the Dodge dealer, and they had a new 2012 diesel RAM 2500 Longhorn crew cab, similarly loaded on the lot ... for $46,500.
http://www.maguirechryslerjeepdodge.com/new/Ram/2012-Ram-2500-400356090a0a006401ef4970b12c8219.htm?vin=3C6UD5GL0CG327363

The F-250 interior is definitely a bit nicer. We're getting lots of options (on either truck) because we'll be spending lots of time in it. I'm just approaching retirement and looking to go out west (from upstate NY). But what has me vexed is ... is the F-250  $7,500 nicer??    :)

On the face of it, they both seem like awesome trucks. So I'm looking for a bit more technical advise from folks who have some experience with these brands/models.

The RAM obviously has the very well received Cummins engine, and as a short bed will fit in my garage (the F-250 is an 8' bed that won't). The RAM is rated to tow 12,450 while the F-250 is 14,000 which gives a bit more "buffer".

I'd appreciate any feedback, technical or aesthetic, to help me make a good decision.

Thanks!
 
I'm weighing the same decision as you right now, so I'm watching your thread too.  I'm heavily in favor of the Dodge.  You'll get a lot of opinions....the experts shall weigh in shortly.  :)
 
Blaise,
    I think the #1 difference is a 2013 vs a 2012; Heck yes a dealer will heavily discount last years model.
    Couple other minor differences:
  - Ford 8' bed vs the  Dodge has a 6' bed.  I'd guess that is 1-2K right there?
  - The ford has 18" wheels.  The Dodge has 17" wheels.
  - Ford has remote start.  Didn't see that on the Dodge.
  - Ford has Trailer Brake Controller.  Didn't see that on the Dodge. (I think I am just missing this one, surely Dodge has these?)
  - Ford has Running boards. Didn't see that on the Dodge.
  - Dodge has a bed liner.  Didn't see that on the Ford.

  I'm a Ford guy so I'd go that way.  Not to mention two tone Blue is prettier than white....lol
 
I did not see where the Dodge was a short bed.  But non the less that is about an 800 dollar difference.  For a TT that long the short bed might be nicer to have for maneuverability.
Dodge for 2012 2500 does not use Urea (DEF), Ford does.
Cummins had millions of miles of proven reliability.  Ford is still too new to get that many miles
Dodge is much cheaper
Most local dealers are slashing Dodge prices about 10K.  Thats a lot of money difference between the two for what?
As a comparison, contact Dave Smith Motors and see what they might still have on the lot.
 
Thanks for the feedback everyone ...

Derby6, I don't know why the specs don't show it, but both have remote start, trailer brake and running boards - though the Ford has illuminated running boards :)
As for the bed lengths ... to get the F250 short bed would save $200. Also, the F250 does have their spray in "Tough Bed" liner.

So they really are close. The wife and I just came back from the dealers - we sat in both to try and help decide (I've already test drive the RAM and a similar F-250).

Most people (including Donn!) would say that the vehicles are fairly comparable functionally, so for $8,100 less (once you add in sales tax) the RAM is a no-brainer - and I would generally agree.

Although I would certainly like the extra features the Ford has, like:
- electric folding and telescoping tow mirrors!  ;D
- Ford's heavier duty 200 amp alternator vs RAM's 180 amp
- Ford's two 110v outlets and six 12v power points vs the RAM's single 110v outlet and three DC power points
- Ford's 10,000 lb GVWR vs. RAM's 9600
- Ford's 18" wheels with all season tires vs RAM's 17" wheels with all terrain tires
  I won't be going off-road, so the AT tires and the skid plate on the RAM are not useful to me
- Ford's supplemental heater - no wait for heat in the winter
- Ford's engine block heater
- Ford's 3.31 electronic locking axle vs RAM's limited slip differential
  RAM specs say it has a "11.50 rear axle", but i don't know what that means (though I understand the Ford's ratio)

BUT the RAM has:
-  the Cummins engine vs Ford's relatively new - some might say unproven - engine
- 5 year/100,000 mile drive train and corrosion warranty vs Ford's 5 year/72,000
- immediate availability vs Ford's order time
  one concern is that my new TT would likely arrive before the Ford is delivered

But the things that concerns me most are towing and overall reliability.
- The Ford has 1500 lb higher towing capacity. With a 10,000 lb load, the Ford would be pulling 71% of
  capacity vs the RAM's 80%
- The Ford has the "camper package" (upgraded front springs, auxiliary rear springs and stabilizer bar), while
  the RAM has their HD snow plow package - heavier front springs. I'm not sure how much difference these make for towing ...

At this point, I'll probably get the RAM. I'll save the $8k, hope the differences do not work against the RAM's towing my 5 ton load well, enjoy the reliability of the Cummins and get used to not having those extras.  :)

Thanks again all!
 
Blaise said:
  RAM specs say it has a "11.50 rear axle", but i don't know what that means (though I understand the Ford's ratio)

Yea what's up with that?  I didn't comment on that because I didn't understand it either. :eek:

Going with the Dodge. :(  As a Ford man, I guess we can no longer be friends.....lol
J/K--Like Lowell said, either one would be fine... ;D
 
The 11.5" is the ring gear diameter on the rear axle. Its a AAM 11.5" axle and has been used on some MDTs. Looks like the truck has the 3.73 axle ratio.

The Cummins has better exhaust braking which your gonna' like. It also allows early warm up when its activated on cold morniung starty up. Exhaust braking is through the VGT Holset turbo with a sliding nozzel. Cummins says it has aropund 240 hp for braking vs 180 on the old 5.9 engine with a actual exhaust brake.

The Cummins also has a engine block heater. Some year models you have to buy the 20 dollar extension cord that plugs into the block heater. Some heaters are included with certain packages though.

The Ford is heavely optioned which sells well around here with RV folks.  Both should fit your needs very well.


 
Well, I am also a bit biased towards the Ford, but in all fairness, if you're looking at overall functionality, as said above, they're probably both very close.  But a few key things you mentioned would lean me towards the Ford even at an $8K premium. 

You said you are going to be spending a lot of time in it.  I think you will really like the comfort of the Ford over the Ram.  Especially the King Ranch.  And unless it's a Mega Cab, you'll get more overall room in the Ford, especially the back seat.

Electric folding/telescoping mirrors.  One word...AWESOME.  I will never go without these again.  And they just plain look better than the Bullwinkle Moose mirrors of the RAM (sorry Ram guys...but those mirrors...).

Supplemental heater...nice if you're in a cold weather place.  It would be nothing you need here in Texas.

I think I would plunk out the extra cash for the Ford.  The Cummins is a tried and true engine, but with all the new emissions crap common to all the diesels now, it has it's share of issues.  And that 8' bed, I really miss that.  My '08 had it and I really got used to it.

So, good luck, and keep us posted. 
 
Blaise said:
Thanks for the feedback everyone ...

Derby6, I don't know why the specs don't show it, but both have remote start, trailer brake and running boards - though the Ford has illuminated running boards :)
As for the bed lengths ... to get the F250 short bed would save $200. Also, the F250 does have their spray in "Tough Bed" liner.

So they really are close. The wife and I just came back from the dealers - we sat in both to try and help decide (I've already test drive the RAM and a similar F-250).

Most people (including Donn!) would say that the vehicles are fairly comparable functionally, so for $8,100 less (once you add in sales tax) the RAM is a no-brainer - and I would generally agree.

Although I would certainly like the extra features the Ford has, like:
- electric folding and telescoping tow mirrors!  ;DSee, I really like my flip out towing mirrors
- Ford's heavier duty 200 amp alternator vs RAM's 180 ampTo me this is a toss up.  20 amps at 12VDC is nothing in the grand scheme of things.
- Ford's two 110v outlets and six 12v power points vs the RAM's single 110v outlet and three DC power points
- Ford's 10,000 lb GVWR vs. RAM's 9600Ford is also heavier.  So at the end of the day, the true payload is within a few pounds of each other
- Ford's 18" wheels with all season tires vs RAM's 17" wheels with all terrain tires Check the prices for new tires before you decide this is a good or bad thing
  I won't be going off-road, so the AT tires and the skid plate on the RAM are not useful to me
- Ford's supplemental heater - no wait for heat in the winter
- Ford's engine block heater18 dollars at places like Genis garage for the cord set for a Ram
- Ford's 3.31 electronic locking axle vs RAM's limited slip differential
  RAM specs say it has a "11.50 rear axle", but i don't know what that means (though I understand the Ford's ratio)This is the size of the ring gear.  As far as I know, at least GM and DOD use the AAM 11.5 inch rear end.  I thing Ford is also using that rear end

BUT the RAM has:
-  the Cummins engine vs Ford's relatively new - some might say unproven - engine
- 5 year/100,000 mile drive train and corrosion warranty vs Ford's 5 year/72,000
- immediate availability vs Ford's order time
  one concern is that my new TT would likely arrive before the Ford is delivered

But the things that concerns me most are towing and overall reliability.
- The Ford has 1500 lb higher towing capacity. With a 10,000 lb load, the Ford would be pulling 71% of
  capacity vs the RAM's 80%I am pulling a 13,500 fiver with a first generation 6.7L Cummins.  I can run all day with cruise control on and still pull down 12.5MPG.  On top of that, the I^ vs V8 makes for 25% fewer parts and lower RPM for that power.
- The Ford has the "camper package" (upgraded front springs, auxiliary rear springs and stabilizer bar), while
  the RAM has their HD snow plow package - heavier front springs. I'm not sure how much difference these make for towing ...Basically none.  It will make for a harsher ride overall from either package.

At this point, I'll probably get the RAM. I'll save the $8k, hope the differences do not work against the RAM's towing my 5 ton load well, enjoy the reliability of the Cummins and get used to not having those extras.  :)

Thanks again all!

At the end of the day, it is your money to spend, so buy what DW likes best and go towing happy
 
Dodge Cummins are meant to last.
http://i55.tinypic.com/20ggyva.jpg

(22,000# Boat) This goes with the million mile odometer plus the vehicle had 1.3 Million when its life ended. This truck was used for hotshoting boats cross country.
http://i56.tinypic.com/o0pbw6.jpg

(21,480# trailer load) This is another hotshotter that delivered hay in the Texas area.
http://i39.tinypic.com/9k3uqw.jpg

Just something to think about...

 
I think they are both great trucks, and the ford looks a bit better on fit and finish, but was not worth the extra money to me when I bought my RAM in 2011. I want to say that the truck is a RAM now not a Dodge, Ram is separating  from Dodge now and RAM ONLY BUILDS TRUCKS. The ford has a brand new motor and like many others have said it is not proven yet...  This is my first Ram and I love it.  Jay
 
Several comments here. Admittedly, I too am Ford biased.

I think it's unfair to say that the 3 - 4 year old 6.7 Ford engine is unproven.

I don't believe DEF has been proven to a detriment nor an added expense given the increase in fuel mileage, etc. As a matter of fact, I believe it may be a plus.

I don't know about a '12 RAM, but I couldn't stand the engine noise in the cab of an '09 RAM after the quietness of my '08 Ford.

Just thoughts for your consideration . . . but my opinion (for what it's worth) is splurge for the Ford.
 
You all are not going to believe what happened today. Ford pulled some unbelievable crap - I don't mean the dealer - I mean the Ford Motor Company.

Last week, I spec-ed out my perfect F-250 on the Ford web site - everything my little heart desired. King Ranch, 4x4 crew cab, with lots of goodies. The MSRP for that was $57,784 (including destination charge but without a $1k financing incentive). I included a link to that work-up in my first post of this thread - but don't click that link just yet - read the rest of this first.

I asked the dealer what it would cost if I ordered it. He said $53,979 less any incentives available at the time of delivery - not bad, but still a bit rich for me. So I looked on the RAM dealer's lot and found the Longhorn 2500 - $7500 less, etc. But we liked the Ford better - we found it more comfortable and a bit more polished.

So we decided to  buy the RAM and save the $$. But I wanted to give the Ford dealer one more shot, so I stopped there on the way to the RAM dealer. We talked about lots of stuff. I explained the situation - including the RAM LongHorn and the $7500 but he said he couldn't budge. So, I took my specs and pulled off $1135 of options - tough bed liner, roof clearing lights, etc. I figured he could work that up for about $1000 less, and I guessed that I'd get at least another $1000 in incentives - maybe more.

This would reduce the gap to about $5000 (given $1000 cash back and $1500 in Ford incentives), and I decided to go for it! So I said "work up a price for that same vehicle less these $1135 in options. If it's below $52,900k, I'll order it right now". He had a big smile and went off to his manager.

But he took a long time to come back ... and when he did the MSRP was $62,065  :eek:

HUH??  I took over $1100 in options off and the price went up $4000 - that's a net increase of over $5000 !!!

He said he couldn't explain it - Ford had change pricing, changed packages ... etc. I thought he must have been BS-ing me - but he wasn't. We tried searching for vehicles on other lots, etc, but no joy.

I'm simply flabbergasted ... but check this out. If you click that link to "my" F-250 - the truck i configured - the King Ranch appears, just as I configured it, but the MSRP is now $63,174, a full $5390 more than when I configured it 2 days ago - the exact same vehicle!

Go figure ... I told him ... "dude, you're making me a RAM owner!".  He apologized profusely - I think he was more upset than I was. So I thanked him and went on to the RAM dealer.

By the time I got there it was only 30 minutes before closing. I offered to put a deposit on the RAM and complete the transaction on Monday. He accepted but said the deposit was not necessary, a handshake was good enough ... nice touch.

So there you have my saga ... unbelievable.

Anyone ever have something like this happen to them? I've never heard of anything like it.

On the bright side, I save $7500 - actually, now that's $12,890 - and I still get an awesome truck!!  ;D

Thanks for the feedback everyone!
 
Congrats!  I talked with a local diesel mechanic yesterday and noticed he was driving a new Dodge.  He had a Chevy Duramax  before, but had a friend that was bugging to sell it to him and finally gave in.  He decided on the new Dodge due to the pricing difference that you found.  He is very pleased with his Dodge/Cummins.  I think you will find the same.  Good Luck!
 
I am a Colorado Rancher and have personally owned and used, along with my hired emplpyees, 18 Dodge Trucks since 1961. Since Dodge began installing Cummins Engines all of our Dodge Trucks have been diesels. I use one of the two 5th wheel hitch equiped D3500 trucks with our Montana RV when we travel. The others are equiped with only goose Neck hitches for our ranch trailers.

I have never worn out a Dodge truck with Diesel. At present my oldest truck, used by my employees, used on my South Ranch for ranch work, is a 1999 Dodge D350, with 258,000 miles. It still runs like new.

One of my rancher neighbors has an older Dodge Diesel, D350 that I sold to him when it had over 300,000 miles. He still uses it for ranch work.

I own a small trucking business, with semi trucks, and my employed mechanic services all of our ranch and truck equipment. So we make sure that all service work is done promptly, the way it should be. I believe this makes our equipment economical and work ready.

I cannot comment on other makes since I have always been happy with Dodge. I understand that Ford no longer offers an F250 or F350 with Standard Transmission. I am not in the market for Ford but all of our Dodge Trucks have the manual transmissions that we need for ranch work. I have only owned one truck with Auto Transmission. It was Dodge some years ago. I owned it only less than 4 months and traded it back for the same model with standard transmission.
 
Rancher Will said:
I have only owned one truck with Auto Transmission. It was Dodge some years ago. I owned it only less than 4 months and traded it back for the same model with standard transmission.
Just curious, why the trade so soon. What about the auto doesn't work for you. I'm a fan of manual transmissions myself but the newer autos seem to be pretty good.
 
Warsw, For ranch work, that includes off road work, hitching. unhitching various trailers, driving and pulling loads iin snow, mud, steep grades, lone driver out of truck moving, control at very low RPM, etc., I and my employees find that we have much better control with manual tranmissions. When chains are required manual transmissions give us more steady RPM without slipping. We also get better engine braking on steep downgrades when hitched to heavy loads with manual transmissions. We often are pulling up to 25,000 lobs with our D350 and D3500 dualys.

We do not use 4-W-D trucks since we have found that studded winter tires and chains when needed are all we need in winter without the 4-W-D. With the 36KW generators and tool boxes on each truck (for use away from the shop), there is enough weight on the truck for good traction with proper tires. And with a 5th Wheel and/or gooseneck  trailer hitched, there is always plenty of weight for traction. The only time we have found when 4-W-D would be useful is if we happen to get into deep mud in a pasture, etc. That happens so rarely that we always have a tractor for one of our winch or backhoe rigs to get out without trouble.

Over the years the initial cost savings has been very considerable and the maintenance for Manual tranmissions, and clutch maintenance  is much less expensive than Auto Tranmissions maintenance costs and quicker. If we only drove the trucks on solid, dry roadways, pulling light loads, then I would perhaps consider auto trannys. I might consider an auto tranny if we only pulled our 5th Wheel RVs, since they would only be on solid roads and off road. I don't know of any RV that is as heavy to handle as our heavy machinery, unstable as stock, and utility trailers.

I have no objection for anyone who used auto transmissions. In fact our autos have all have had auto trannys for decades and I would have it no other way. Some of my family, and some employees, drive lighter D150 type trucks and some of these have auto trannys. But these are used for light work, almost like an auto,  and not heavy ranch work.
 
My brother is a Dodge guy (and a rancher in Colo) but also has a sense of humor.  He's asking me questions about my truck and the 6.7 and proceeds to tell me "the Cummins is a hell of a motor....far outlasted the interior on my truck....far outlasted everything else on my truck, too.

I went from an 04 F-350 Lariet dually to a 1500 Silverado.  I'm back in a Ford....an F-250 and with the 6.7 unproven motor (unproven to who?)......and damn glad I am.  There's a reason it's been the #1 selling truck in America for more than 35 years.  ;)
 
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