dash AC on an 04 alpine...

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TonyDtorch

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look what Google found....http://www.alpinecoachassociation.com/chassis/Electric%20Aux%20Fan-03%20Alpine.pdf
 

MYRV2

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352
TonyDtorch said:
look what Google found....http://www.alpinecoachassociation.com/chassis/Electric%20Aux%20Fan-03%20Alpine.pdf

I saw that and got already to run and do it.... his must have the small motor and a smaller radiator... he says he has 2'' after the stack to the grill... mine has about 1/2'' , and my condenser is close to the innercooler already...so I was thinking about a puller fan,... but it's way too hot to go out and crawl under the coach to see...I have seen on a forum somewhere that they moved the condenser and added fans,,,looked like a lot of work... as of now,.. it's charged and cooling , but i'm only gonna use it on the freeway till it's fixed..you can't hear nothing in the coach... and I know it will build too much head pressure quick....another thing that puzzels me is even going down the road... there is no force to the air coming in from the side...kinda like having a window open......

thanks for the reply
 

youracman

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Denver, CO
MYRV2-  A/C problems always interest me.  I researched your issue some....over in  the irv2 Forum.  [  irv2.com>Forums>Owners Forums>Alpine Coach]  When the list of posts appears, look just above it and to the right side for "Search this Forum"; type in Fan; then hit GO.  When you then read the thread(s) "Alpine dash air 2002" and "Hydraulic radiator fan" and "Radiator Fan" I believe you will conclude that Alpine didn't design your coach to work the way it does.....you almost surely have a hardware/or "black box" problem.  Heck....what RV owner doesn't?  For me......about 1 per trip.    :^]  )

Here's a recap of some info I found on that site......FWIW:

For 2003 and prior years a "Wax Valve" system was used to control the hydraulic fan.  The wax valve turns up the fan speed when the engine warms up; it is spec'd to have a minimum fan speed (not zero) regardless of engine temp.  Several posters said their fan does not have a minimum speed but instead behaves just like the fan on your coach; only one poster (owns a 2001) said his fan was always on anytime the engine was running......higher speed after warm up.  One 2003 owner said Source Engineering had an orifice kit that would bypass some hydraulic fluid around the wax valve so the fan would always turn (at some lower speed) prior to engine warm up......I went to the Source Engineering website but unfortunately I didn't see that exact product shown.

For 2004 and on, an electronic control was used to modulate the fan speed.......versus a wax valve. As I read it, with the electronic controller, if the A/C is "On" the hydraulic fan is supposed to run at full speed .........regardless of ambient air temp or engine coolant temp.    Since your coach is a 2004,  the posts I read would indicate you should have an electronic controller.  In any event, after reading several threads on the Alpine Owners Forum over on irv2,  it sure seems that your hydraulic fan is designed to run if the A/C is on.

Suggestion(s): Post your problem on the irv2 Alpine Owners forum.  Hopefully another owner of a 2004 or later coach will respond with good, meaningful data for you (probably several will.)  Also, you might look online at sourcerv.com/products ....... that's Source Engineering and  their phone number is listed there ........ a call just might be very beneficial....dunno.

Hope this sheds a little light ..... and helps some.  Good luck with a fix, and safe travels. 
 

MYRV2

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Sep 15, 2015
Posts
352
youracman said:
MYRV2-  A/C problems always interest me.  I researched your issue some....over in  the irv2 Forum.  [  irv2.com>Forums>Owners Forums>Alpine Coach]  When the list of posts appears, look just above it and to the right side for "Search this Forum"; type in Fan; then hit GO.  When you then read the thread(s) "Alpine dash air 2002" and "Hydraulic radiator fan" and "Radiator Fan" I believe you will conclude that Alpine didn't design your coach to work the way it does.....you almost surely have a hardware/or "black box" problem.  Heck....what RV owner doesn't?  For me......about 1 per trip.    :^]  )

Here's a recap of some info I found on that site......FWIW:

For 2003 and prior years a "Wax Valve" system was used to control the hydraulic fan.  The wax valve turns up the fan speed when the engine warms up; it is spec'd to have a minimum fan speed (not zero) regardless of engine temp.  Several posters said their fan does not have a minimum speed but instead behaves just like the fan on your coach; only one poster (owns a 2001) said his fan was always on anytime the engine was running......higher speed after warm up.  One 2003 owner said Source Engineering had an orifice kit that would bypass some hydraulic fluid around the wax valve so the fan would always turn (at some lower speed) prior to engine warm up......I went to the Source Engineering website but unfortunately I didn't see that exact product shown.

For 2004 and on, an electronic control was used to modulate the fan speed.......versus a wax valve. As I read it, with the electronic controller, if the A/C is "On" the hydraulic fan is supposed to run at full speed .........regardless of ambient air temp or engine coolant temp.    Since your coach is a 2004,  the posts I read would indicate you should have an electronic controller.  In any event, after reading several threads on the Alpine Owners Forum over on irv2,  it sure seems that your hydraulic fan is designed to run if the A/C is on.

Suggestion(s): Post your problem on the irv2 Alpine Owners forum.  Hopefully another owner of a 2004 or later coach will respond with good, meaningful data for you (probably several will.)  Also, you might look online at sourcerv.com/products ....... that's Source Engineering and  their phone number is listed there ........ a call just might be very beneficial....dunno.

Hope this sheds a little light ..... and helps some.  Good luck with a fix, and safe travels.

first off, I'm banned from IRV, I was banned for 2 weeks... logged in a now banned for another 3 mon..i heard that some one over there is mad that I post here...inbelievable....

next... the fan on my coach stays still till the motor needs cooling... which is hardly never... I did research it and found that's how it works... further research I found that others with the same problem had to move the condenser and some added pusher fans in front of the radiator...(which I personal don't like) but probley the easiest way out to get it to keep the head pressure down
next,... the whole design sucks IMHO..... it will never get good air flow across the condenser because the radiator is on the side... kinda like having the window open in the car... you will never feel it like if you were to remove the windshield...

also there is a guy right around the corner from me in vegas that has the same 04 alpine..his works exact to mine...where I had the problem is.. when I bought it...they charged the air.... riding around havasu in the 120 heat it blew the pop off and went down to .86 lbs....


next, my sons went to school for auto ac... had them look at it...with out running water on the condenser... the pop of would go off... no leaks and vac it down twice for 60 min...we have a good ac machine... that does it all...so the last time I ran water over the condenser and put in 3 lb of Freon..

with the coach about 120 inside... I didn't put the ac on till I got on the freeway and shut it off on the off ramp...

lol... so on ramp on ac on.. off ramp ,ac off...
what I really need last weekend was some help as the 2 roof a/c's struggled to bring the temp done so we stopped and waited in the shade till the sun went down...

I really really thank you and all the others for posting Idea's and try'n to help..
if you or anyone has a cure... please post...

the pusher fan idea won't work as there is less than 1/2'' room.....thanks again to all:D
 

Gary RV_Wizard

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Location
West Palm Beach, FL
I don't have first hand knowledge, but I'm told the dash a/c system in mine take 3.5 lbs for a "normal charge" but 6.5 lb if the system is evacuated and requires a total new charge. That's for a Denso a/c system on a Freightliner XCM chassis with Cummins 8.9L.  I don't think the chassis and engine type has much if anything to do with the a/c charge requirements, though.

In my cooling system, activating the  dash a/c switch forces the radiator cooling fan to run continuously. It's a variable speed hydraulic fan, so it typically is not running full speed, but it always runs at some low speed to keep air flowing over the condensor. That usually holds the engine and transmission temperatures down near their low thresholds, but still ok for proper performance.
 
T

TonyDtorch

Guest
I think,  the bigger your windshield..... the worse your dash air.

you still need the house ac on when it's 100+ going down the road
 

William52

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Posts
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Location
Florida 6 Months winter.
Gary RV Roamer said:
I don't have first hand knowledge, but I'm told the dash a/c system in mine take 3.5 lbs for a "normal charge" but 6.5 lb if the system is evacuated and requires a total new charge. That's for a Denso a/c system on a Freightliner XCM chassis with Cummins 8.9L.  I don't think the chassis and engine type has much if anything to do with the a/c charge requirements, though. Gary 3.5 lbs sounds abt. right.

In my cooling system, activating the  dash a/c switch forces the radiator cooling fan to run continuously. It's a variable speed hydraulic fan, so it typically is not running full speed, but it always runs at some low speed to keep air flowing over the condensor. That usually holds the engine and transmission temperatures down near their low thresholds, but still ok for proper performance.
    That's how the Alpine should work as well .....YOU MUST HAVE AIR FLOW ACROSS CONDENSER  So I still believe you have a FAN problem. ASE Master Auto 30+ years!
 

MYRV2

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Posts
352
William52 said:
http://www.alpinecoachassociation.com/tech/tech.html  So which one?  Heres some fan info.http://www.alpinecoachassociation.com/tech/tech.html

mines an 04, 03's have different fans..
 

Lanceman73

Member
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Sep 24, 2022
Posts
5
Location
Alpine, CA
I guess you could put an aux. fan/fans with a relay in series with the compressor circuit on the condenser. Comparing it to your car, well it will never work as well. A temp/differential more then 30 degrees is about all you expect when its that hot so 100 outside 70 feels better. You are removing heat from inside and shedding it outside. You never told me what kind of FAN you have so i'm still assuming its Hyd.? Most cars/truck with a fan clutch get some air flow cold. A wiring diagram would help and if its a Freight liner chassis maybe you can call them for some feedback. Good luck
 

Lanceman73

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Sep 24, 2022
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5
Location
Alpine, CA
the dash ac on my alpine has not worked since I've own it... the dealer I bought it from added and let out freon.... no machine...

so beings I own an auto repair/ muffler shop that is worked and run by my sons, that and I paid about 4k for a machine to pull the old out, vacume the moisture out, and do a leak check...that and my boys went to school for auto air.....which is why they won't allow me to touch any of the equipment....:D


first thing that I find.... it only had .86 lbs of freon....next my son says, "I'm gonna vacume the system for 60 minutes to make darn sure there is no moisture in there

so that's done....he asked me how much freon it takes ....I read on line that the system takes 3.5 lbs....not gosable but all I know...

so it's vacumed down.... no leaks..... and time to charge......I say put the 3.5 that I read on the alpine section of a web site

would really like to know if that is right.... I will be expecting max performance from the system.... thanks for any and all replies
I'm currently doing my first repair of this ongoing issue. Many calls, but never had one to fix. The wax valve isn't able to do anything for the A/C. Modified the stock brackets and installed a multiflow condenser with fans on a pressure switch.
 

Lanceman73

Member
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Sep 24, 2022
Posts
5
Location
Alpine, CA
There it is. No hose modifications. Fans come on at 250psi and off at 190psi. Tight fit, but doesn't rub on anything.
 

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