Diesel Engine Change between F250 Model Years

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GaryB

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Hi - was originally thinking to get a F250/350 4x2 gasser (for 5er towing), but the more I think about it I think I'll bite the $$ bullet and get a 4x4 diesel.? I hear the 4x2 big block V10 gasers are very hard to get rid of (also poor mpg).? IS that true?? Maybe that's evidenced by seeing roughy 10 diesels to every 1 gasser when I look at 3/4 and 1 ton trucks in dealer lots.

One other thing - I thought I read somewhere that all diesel engines will change in 2007 to only run the ultra low suplhur (ULS) fuel.? But I was told today (over phone by Ford dealer) that the 2007 Ford PSD engines are the same as the 2006's.? What's going on here?? However, I was told that the displacement of the 2008 PSD engine will change (although the salesperson didn't know if it will be the new ULS engine).? One would think that'd be a very hot topic right now among dealers, but apparently not so.? Anyway, my question is ---? I know it's not good to buy a new engine the first year it comes out, but I cannot really wait 2 years until the 2009's come out.? Would it be better to get a new 2006 or 2007, or else to get the 2008 new engine next summer when it comes out?? I can wait one year, just not two years.

Thanks
Gary?
 

Gary RV_Wizard

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As of Jan 1, 2007, all NEW diesel engines sold must meet the lower emissions standards. As far as I know, all those engines will require  low sulphur fuel to meet those standards, but maybe Fords 6.0L already does meet the standard??? I haven't heard that anywhere but...?  On the other hand, never rely on what a salesman tells you.

2007 model diesels can be sold up to Dec 31, 2006 under the "old" emissions standards, so the engines don't need to change quite yet.
 

Ned

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Gary, is it when the engine is sold or when the engine is manufactured?  I recall reading somewhere that the date of manufacturer controls the new standards requirement.  So an engine made in 2006 can be sold in 2007 and still not be required to meet the new standards.
 

Gary RV_Wizard

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You are right, Ned, it's the production date rather than the date sold. That's to allow for vehicles in transit, those already of sales lots, incomplete chassis (e.g. motorhoe & truck chassis), etc.  So that's another reason wht you will likely find 2007 model year diesels available with engines that may not require low sulphur fuels.  But they will begin to get scarce as 2007 marches on.

Here's some fairly readable material from Isuzu concerning the new standards. Of course it's from the Isuzi perspective, but it appears to be fairly generic.  http://www.isuzucv.com/images/engines/EmissionsBro_Isuzu.pdf#search=%222007%20diesel%20standards%22
 

GaryB

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Hi - thanks for the great advice.  I do have a few more questions:

1. Should I be able to get a great deal on a diesel truck produced prior to Jan. 1, 2007, especially as the beginning of the year approaches?? Seems like dealers may want to get rid of those old engine models fairly fast as demand for the new engines picks up.

2. Are there any disadvantages to buying a pre-2007 diesel engine (other than maybe resale later)?  I believe those pre-2007 engines will run either the old or new fuel.

3. Is anyone aware of a Ford truck dealer who gives great deals?? I'm referring to a high-volume, internet dealer who sells lots of trucks at a very low margin - the type of dealer that people travel from 500 miles away to buy from.

Thanks
Gary
 

woodartist

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When I bought my F-250 I went to http://www.autobytel.com/ and got quotess for different Zip codes. Found the best deals were in Oklahoma for some reason. As long as you have a detailed list of what you want, then comparing dealers is easy. We had Montana residency so didn't have to pay sales tax ;)
 

Gary RV_Wizard

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Since low sulphur diesel fuel is not widely available yet, I suspect that dealers will want a premium for the pre-2007 spec engines, rather than discounting them. Many folks are concerned about fuel availability.
 

Kenneth

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RV Roamer said:
Since low sulphur diesel fuel is not widely available yet, I suspect that dealers will want a premium for the pre-2007 spec engines, rather than discounting them. Many folks are concerned about fuel availability.

Does anyone know what Canada's policy is on low sulphur fuel ? Might be a situation if you were to buy a new coach, and not be able to drive to Alaska ! I know the older diesel engines will operate on both fuels, but the new diesel cannot operate on old fuel at all.
 

GaryB

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Sounds like I should buy now.  Am I overlooking any disadvantages to doing that?

By the way, I tried the www.autobytel.com website.  It seems like it just requests quotes thru my local dealer (who is notorious for not coming down in price).  Are there any other dealer websites who give "no hassle" e-quotes and are high-volume dealers giving great prices?

Thanks
Gary
 

GaryB

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Am I correct that the "old" diesel fuel will still be sold after Jan. 1, 2007?  I would imagine so, at least for awhile.

Gary
 

Jim Godward

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Gary,

You might try "Yellowstone Country Ford" In livingston MT.  YC Dodge, Jeep, etc. is owned by the same people and they really deal on the Chrysler products.  I see a lot of new Fords here with their Logo on it.  YC Just bought the Ford dealership a few months ago.  Give them a try.

I Had a good experience when I bought my 2002 Jeep and great service since then.  I don't know if Dick Smith in Kellogg ID has Fords of not but know he deals well on Chrysler products especially Dodge PUs.

I would get a new diesel before the 2007s are available as they will cost a lot more due to the Clean air/SMOG requirements.  The 2006s already run hotter and have poorer mileage that the earlier ones.  There are a lot of mixed reports on the 2007s so be careful.

Good luck,
 

GaryB

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James Godward said:
The 2006s already run hotter and have poorer mileage that the earlier ones.? There are a lot of mixed reports on the 2007s so be careful.

Wow - that is very interesting.  Thanks.  Does anybody else concur that the 2006 and 2007 diesels run hotter and have poorer mpg than the old ones?  In that case, maybe I should buy used instead.
Gary
 

woodartist

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The Ford PSD went from a 7.3L to a 6.0. I took my 7.3L in for a problem and was talking to the Service manager who told me that I was lucky to have a 7.3. The 6.0 has been nothing but problems..........FYI You might want to go back to the PSD forum I posted earlier and ask questions. A lot of the forum members are Service managers, shop formans, and tech's. I have found the solution to all my problems on the forum.....they know what they are talking about.
 

Gary RV_Wizard

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You might also ask for tips on dealers and engines on the Ford Truck Enthusiast web site.

For what its worth, I know two Rvers with 6.0L Ford diesels who drive/tow a lot of miles and have had zero problems and love them compared to their previous 7.3L Fords.

But if you are concerned about the Ford, why not go with a GMC or Chevy? The Duratech 6.0L diesel is an outstanding engine and is mated to an excellent Allison tranny.
 

woodartist

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I'm just passing on what the dealer's service manager said. I'm sure there ae some good ones out there (6.0) but the mechanics were complaining also. Maybe the 6 is better than the 7.3, I don't know. They told me the reason thaat Ford went to the 6.0 was to meet emission standards. I have the 7.3 and other than expected problems, it seems OK. Let's see, replaced the Vacuum pump, fuel pump, and the chronic failing Glow plug relay. Oh, and also the cam position sensor, but I think that have solved that problem. That was a well know problem.....have about 140,000 miles and original brakes that I will replace in a few months......FWIW
 

GaryB

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RVRoamer - do you happen to know what years are for the Ford 6.0L PSD your friends own?? I heard by reading on forum that the 2003-2004 years were particularly bad (turbo problems), but some people have been complaining about the later years also.

Would really prefer to stay with a Ford due to dimensions, capacities.? Dodge doesn't fit the bill on a couple fronts (bed lengths, GVWR, etc.).? Also, I could stay with a 3/4 ton with Ford, but would likely need a 1 ton for Dodge for the 5er I have in mind. I would have to totally educate myself on Chevy since I've done no research on them.?

Gary
 

Gary RV_Wizard

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do you happen to know what years are for the Ford 6.0L PSD your friends own?  I heard by reading on forum that the 2003-2004 years were particularly bad (turbo problems), but some people have been complaining about the later years also.

The Ford 6.0L diesel came out in 2004, so whatever you heard about 2003's doesn't apply to that engine.  One of my friends has a 2004 F350 custom RV hauler  and the other a 2005 F350 Lariat.  I think you may be over-reacting to bad news on the internet - there are tens of thousands of Ford 6.0L diesels on the road with no more than the usual number of problems. 

If you haven't looked at the Chevy/GMC trucks, you 're research is decidedly incomplete. The 6.6L Duratech diesel is the GM version of a well-regarded Isuzu diesel with an excellent track record and the Allison transmission can't be beat. A 3/4 ton Chevy (2500HD) has a GCWR of 22,000 lbs  and all models except the crew cab have a 15,000+ lb tow rating.

As for a 3500 Dodge, you can get that in an "SRW" (single Rear Wheel) configuration which makes it pretty much indistinguishable from a 3/4 ton. Same for Ford and Chevy, for that matter.
 

woodartist

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there are tens of thousands of Ford 6.0L diesels on the road with no more than the usual number of problems. 
Hundred's of thousands with problems.............. ;D Sorry couldn't resist ;) I think the dealer, the techs, and the web info was comparing the 7.3 to the 6.0.....not the 6.0 alone. Regardless, I'd get a Dodge :eek:
 

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