Do we need 5-minute charging?

[DonTom]

"Do We Even Need Five-Minute EV Charging?"​

"One charging network CEO says "faster is not always better."​

And I agree with this CEO.

"Do we need to charge in five minutes? The answer is probably no, because actually the average dwell time for filling up your gas tank is about 10 to 12 minutes," he said. "So that's actually the number that we're solving for.”

And I am not so sure why we need to match it. EV charging doesn't compare well to gas stations, IMO. For one thing, I could leave home to get gas first in an ICE vehicle and often do, but I will never leave home to get a charge first. I will leave here with around a 300-mile range in my Tesla. If I were to drive a few hundred miles, I would enjoy the break after couple of hundred miles of driving. Five minutes could be way too short for me. Then I have to leave that charge spot and find a place to take the rest of my break.

But for those who have a hot date at a long distance, we will soon have charge stops of a shorter time than at a gas station.

Megawatt chargers are already here, but it will be a while before they are in common use.

-Don- Reno, NV

 

[Derby6]

Nope. I don’t want to have to stop every 300 miles. That’s 4 hours in west with 75-80mph speed limits. And if I do stop. It’s in and out. Zoom zoom.

 

[DonTom]

Nope. I don’t want to have to stop every 300 miles. That’s 4 hours in west with 75-80mph speed limits. And if I do stop. It’s in and out. Zoom zoom.

You must be a lot younger than I am (75). I can barely make it 100 miles these days without a break, which is the distance between here and my Auburn house. It usually takes me two hours for that. Just under two hours if traffic is extra good the entire way.

-Don- Reno, NV

 

[Derby6]

54. I’ll stop every 3-4 hours normally. But literally pee and go. I have drinks and snacks in truck. That’s what I do to get home.
When with a load I do what driver wants / desires. Im a contractor and work on their schedule. No load will stop or wait for me if at all possible.

 

[DonTom]

54. I’ll stop every 3-4 hours normally. But literally pee and go. I have drinks and snacks in truck. That’s what I do to get home.
When with a load I do what driver wants / desires. Im a contractor and work on their schedule. No load will stop or wait for me if at all possible.

Yeah, things are very different for those poor people who still work for a living.

I am never in a big hurry these days.

-Don- Reno, NV

 

[John From Detroit]

I am never in a big hurry these days.

I know that feeling

 

[Isaac-1]

Where do they get these 10-12 minute average dwell time statistics for stopping at gas stations, I suspect my average gas station stop is closer to 3 minutes with pay at the pump unless I need to use the restroom, or get food. This is not to say I don't stop, stretch, etc. eat food, etc. while traveling, but I don't tend to spend all that much time hanging around gas stations, unless it is some place like Bucees.

 

[Lou Schneider]

Where do they get these 10-12 minute average dwell time statistics for stopping at gas stations, I suspect my average gas station stop is closer to 3 minutes with pay at the pump unless I need to use the restroom, or get food. This is not to say I don't stop, stretch, etc. eat food, etc. while traveling, but I don't tend to spend all that much time hanging around gas stations, unless it is some place like Bucees.

Obviously you're not in CA. They restrict their pumps to about half of the flow rate elsewhere to accommodate their vapor recovery system. It takes an awfully long time to pump 30-40 gallons into a motorhome.

 

[dave541]

I read a write-up on the Chinese 5 minute charging system. It was a contrived demonstration that realistically cannot be applied in the average daily situation.
The write-up described what would be needed in an average American city charging facility with several chargers. Basically, if all were in use at once you would need a powerplant sitting next to the facility, the charging cables would be the size of your arm, and would need some sort of cooling system.

 

[DonTom]

Where do they get these 10-12 minute average dwell time statistics for stopping at gas stations, I suspect my average gas station stop is closer to 3 minutes with pay at the pump unless I need to use the restroom, or get food. This is not to say I don't stop, stretch, etc. eat food, etc. while traveling, but I don't tend to spend all that much time hanging around gas stations, unless it is some place like Bucees.

It varies greatly for various reasons. I guess out there you have never had to wait for other vehicles to fill up. I could not guess what the average time would be at a gas station, but it will be different in some areas than others. 11 minutes as an average would not surprise me. but some places will be a lot less wait and some will be longer.

In rare cases, a lot longer.

A few years ago, I recall a line of trucks and cars waiting for gas and diesel that went around a mile down the freeway during the 3-day PG&E power outage. This was at Cisco Grove CA where they also have EV charge stations. The ironic thing was if an EV needed a charge, drive right up to the charge station and be fully charge before the gas line moved much. This was the first place they had electricity (gas stations were closed because if it) for around 100 miles.

I also can recall the all-day gas lines of the 1970's in the SF Bay area:

-Don- Reno, NV

 

[gwinger]

Obviously you're not in CA. They restrict their pumps to about half of the flow rate elsewhere to accommodate their vapor recovery system. It takes an awfully long time to pump 30-40 gallons into a motorhome.

A lot of pumps are the same way. Sam's club is one example. Half the flow of a regular station. I think it's because people not familiar with pumping their own gas are in a big hurry and pull the nozzle out too soon.
I've also seen this at few Flying J's.

 

[DonTom]

A lot of pumps are the same way. Sam's club is one example. Half the flow of a regular station. I think it's because people not familiar with pumping their own gas are in a big hurry and pull the nozzle out too soon.
I've also seen this at few Flying J's.

I have noticed busy gas stations where many are pumping at the same time, the flow rate is less.

-Don- Reno, NV

 

[Derby6]

Yeah, things are very different for those poor people who still work for a living.

I am never in a big hurry these days.

-Don- Reno, NV

Once again you are soooo wrong. I semi-retired 4 years ago. My piloting I do because I enjoy it and it’s just extra money do do fun things. I don’t have to work—hence I snowbird for 2-4 months every winter. The piloting business has me ‘working’ more than I thought but again it’s fun so not really work to me.
When I’m headed home with no load it’s often on roads I travel very often and I know like the back of my hand so I just zoom zoom home.
When I’m in lower 48 with fiver travel plans vary. Sometimes make a run for a spot. Other times we plink along.

 

[Gary RV_Wizard]

I'm always a bit surprised that my 5 minute fuel stop ends up being more like 10 minutes until I am back on the highway at cruising speed again. And that's without a pee brake or a snack.

I think convenience and instant gratification are a big factor in refueling preferences. Some (many?) don't plan far ahead, or at least prefer not to. And sometimes it's just plain inconvenient. I make a 300 mile trip every 5-6 weeks and have things I want to do immediately upon arrival. The difference between a few minute refueling and 25-35 minutes is important to me at that particular time. And the fact that there are gas stations close to my destinations but charge stations are a few miles off my path is relevant. Not a deal breaker, but not helpful either. At other times, I couldn't care less.

 

[Derby6]

I read a write-up on the Chinese 5 minute charging system. It was a contrived demonstration that realistically cannot be applied in the average daily situation.
The write-up described what would be needed in an average American city charging facility with several chargers. Basically, if all were in use at once you would need a powerplant sitting next to the facility, the charging cables would be the size of your arm, and would need some sort of cooling system.

Dave you need to delete that post immediately. It does not reflect the EV narrative.

 

[DonTom]

I read a write-up on the Chinese 5 minute charging system.

Is that somewhere I can find on the web? I would like to read it.

the charging cables would be the size of your arm, and would need some sort of cooling system.

Most DCFCs (even Tesla Superchargers) have coolant in the cables. I have seen the inside of a V4 Tesla Supercharger when a tech was working on one shown below.

The white car <A Tesla M3> at the very end of the chargers was the Tesla Charger Tech who I was BSing with while I was charging. He was replacing a charge cable--because of a slow coolant leak--which gave him an alarm at his house near Lake Tahoe.

I got to see the coolant bottle inside the Supercharger as he had it open to replace the cable.

These are the new V4 Tesal Superchargers with Magic Dock, at the Roseville, CA Ace Hardware:

That is my 2023 Energica Experia in the above photo (my largest electric motorcycle).

-Don- Reno, NV

 

[John From Detroit]

Oconee County South Carolina. along with Clemson next door. Have the Clemson Area Transit (They also serve the county to the south) and with a transfer I think one more.. CAT buses do not have a fare box... You ride free! (They found it saves the county money) They have some fast charge Buses. one of the chargers is at the the hospital in Seneca. Not sure where the other one(s) are. Only seen the one. IT is impressive. The bus pulls in and since it's a "one type only" it auto connects and charges.. Driver gets a cup of coffee and back on the road.. Where he finishes the coffee. This was back in oh. 2020 or a bit before (last time I was there) Was friends with one of the Drivers.(A fellow Full Time RVer)

 

[DonTom]

Clemson Area Transit

Fairfield, CA used to have the Fairfield Area Rapid Transit, or "FART".

The side of the buses used to say:

"Is driving to work giving you gas pains? If so, FART your way to work!"

But some people got upset with that and now they changed their name.

-Don- Reno, NV

 

[John From Detroit]

But some people got upset with that and now they changed their name.

I recall line from a TV show.. Do not remember the show but:
"Some people would get upset if you hung them with a new rope"

Some folks simply have NO sense of humor.

 

[Onyrlef]

Is that somewhere I can find on the web? I would like to read it.



-Don- Reno, NV

Yes, key in "why an angel in heaven loses it's wings when a new EV is sold" and scroll down to "EV charging lies the deep steak want you to believe".