Don't blame the salesman

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carjocky

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Ron said:
I was once told that the three groups of people you should never freely trust or take what they say as gospel are LAWYERS, POLITICIANS, and SALESMAN. Seems this old guy had it pretty straight for a 90 year old man at the time. ;D

Why is it always the salesmans fault because someone that is making a large purchase doesnt do their homework when buying a vehicle. It is NOT the salesmans job to do this for you. YOU should know what YOU need before you buy it. Dont make yourself look or feel better by blameing someone else. They have in EVERY vehicle made the ratings for what the vehicle can tow in the door jam.

And yes I am a car salesman.
 

Ron

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Because 9 chances out of 10 if a prospective buyer of a trailer indicates he wants to pull the trailer behind that truck as he points to his truck the salesman will say no problem intead of saying I'm not sure or better check the specs.  Another senerio the prospective truck buyer says I need a truck to pull my 38 ft Grand Teton 5th wheel trailer and most salesman will show him what they have on the lot even though he has no idea what is required to pull the mentioned trailer.  If asked are you sure this truck will pull my Teton the general answer is oh yea that truck will pull anything you put behind it.  In both cases if the salesman hasn't a clue he should so state.  Even the truck manufacturers TV adds are misleading.

I agree that one should do their homework but then also the salesman need to be completely honest and not just tell the person what ever he thinks will help make the sale.

I know there are good  honest salesman and ther are those that are not.  However,  there are an awful lot of the other that make any good ones seem to be in the minority.

Life is a learning experience and one thing I learned early on was never to trust a lawyer, politician, or a salesman at least untill I have found a reason to trust them. ;D
 

carjocky

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Thats nice......

It is ok to slam sales people but when I defend them you erase my posts. Doesnt seem to fair to me..... I even had some valid information to back it up.

Thanks for your "unbiased" (cough) censoring...

 

Tom

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carjocky said:
Thats nice...... It is ok to slam sales people but when I defend them you erase my posts. Doesnt seem to fair to me..... I even had some valid information to back it up.
Thanks for your "unbiased" (cough) censoring...

Nothing was erased and nothing was censored. Your message and others in that topic were moved here with a subject line that I thought was more appropriate and relevant to the point you were trying to make.
 

carjocky

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Thank you for clearing that up. I didnt see where it was moved so I figured it was erased.

 

Tom

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Guilty until proven innocent eh? Aren't you the one who's complaining about others unfairly characterizing salesmen? It's OK for salesmen to unfairly characterize others here though ;D
 

carjocky

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Tom said:
Guilty until proven innocent eh? Aren't you the one who's complaining about others unfairly characterizing salesmen? It's OK for salesmen to unfairly characterize others here though ;D

No but common sense would have told you to put "moved to another forum" at the original post. 

Sorry I guess I should have looked thru 21137 posts in 2319 topics before I thought it was erased..... My fault I guess......

 

Tom

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common sense would have told you to put "moved to another forum" at the original post.

I'm really sorry you don't think I have any common sense, although that comment violates the agreement you accepted when registering for an account here. But, as others here will attest, I'm really a nice guy and I'll overlook it this time.

My normal policy is to avoid cluttering the message boards with lots of "message moved to..." notices, although in this case I really intended to post such a message, but I guess I screwed up. Shame on me. Maybe I'll even get fired over this. There again, I figured the subject line "Don't blame the salesman" might have got your attention. No need to look through all the posts as it would have shown up in the small number of "new" posts..

Believe it or not, I really was trying to help you out by changing the subject line and bringing attention to the point you were trying to make. There's just no pleasing some folks.
 

Woody

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Tom,

There really ins't any reason for you to apologize. We have all dealt with salesman at RV dealerships that either didn't know what they were talking about or were saying whatever they had to to make the sale. That doesn't make them bad, but it does make them dishonest, same goes for car salesman.
If the truth hurts, I'm sorry, but it is still the truth.
Kinda like all the finger pointing going on about Katrina/New Orleans now. Just depends on where your poliitical view is coming from.

Woody
 

Tom

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Thanks Woody. I have my own opinion of RV, boat and car salesmen (lots of experiences with all three), but I've deliberately avoided passing them along so as not to upset one side or the other in this discussion. I will say that we had a very pleasant experience with a Beaver salesman in Bend recently. He had been Beaver's warranty and service manager for 19 years before they moved the plant to Coburg a few months ago. This guy really knew what he was talking about and didn't attempt to passify us with something we wanted to hear.
 

carjocky

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Woody said:
Tom,

That doesn't make them bad, but it does make them dishonest, same goes for car salesman.
If the truth hurts, I'm sorry, but it is still the truth.

Woody

Wow.... I sure hope you are not a police officer or someone of public service. Your stereotyping is the kind of thing that makes people racists... My point is that just because someone sells cars does not make them dishonest. That is like saying that I knew a guy named Woody that was a drunk. Now does that make you a drunk because your name is Woody also? Dont stereotype people on a public message board and insult them and expect people to not to be offended.


 

Tom

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carjocky said:
My point is that just because someone sells cars does not make them dishonest.

Your point is taken. Unfortunately we see a lot of folks here who were "told something by the salesman" which was clearly incorrect and the salesman either knew it or should have known it. By the time the folks come here and find out they were duped, it's too late. It's these cases that give sales people a bad reputation. Personally, I've had my share of both kinds, maybe I should say three kinds of salespeople:

  • The guy who didn't know any better, but preferred to BS me rather than say he didn't know.
  • The guy who knew he was telling an outright lie.
  • The guy who knew the right answer and was honest with me, even if it jeopardized the sale.

It only takes experience with one of the first two for someone to be wary of all salesmen. As you say, it doesn't make all salesmen bad, but the one bad experience sticks.

Having seen this a number of times, it's also natural that folks caution others about believing everything they're told.

A week ago I had the opportunity to tell the owner of a large nation-wide RV dealer about my experience with his company. I explained that I was pleased with the sales process, but after-sales support was extremely bad. The net result is that I won't do business with any of his retail locations again. Someone hearing me say that could interpret that as me saying I don't like RV dealerships and they'd be right. My next RV will be picked up at the factory with no dealer personnel present. My recent warranty service was done at the factory because "I don't trust the dealer to do it right" and that all stems from my bad experience with one dealer. Clearly, not all dealers are bad.
 

Bob Buchanan

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Hello Woody:

That doesn't make them bad, but it does make them dishonest, same goes for car salesman. If the truth hurts, I'm sorry, but it is still the truth.
====
Actually, that is not the truth ?:). Your statement appears to include "all" car salesmen -- and I suppose saleswomen in the world. I know of car salesmen and women that are not dishonest -- and over the past 55 years, have purchased many, many vehicles from many many sales folk. I hate the idea of categorizing people based on the actions of some in that group.

I have been screwed over several times, and on other occassions, was treated fairly and honestly -- and became lasting friends with others. When I was struggling back in the 60's, I bought a used plymouth from a fellow on Fulton Avenue (auto row there) -- and it was great for me. ?I told my friends of this person and he did them well also. Until this day, when drinking a beer or two, we still talk about him and how he was always able to get us into a vehicle at a fair price when we were living from payday to payday.
 

Jim Dick

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carjocky said:
Wow.... I sure hope you are not a police officer or someone of public service. Your stereotyping is the kind of thing that makes people racists... My point is that just because someone sells cars does not make them dishonest. That is like saying that I knew a guy named Woody that was a drunk. Now does that make you a drunk because your name is Woody also? Don't stereotype people on a public message board and insult them and expect people to not to be offended.

I refrained from posting before but you have now changed my mind. I agree that "just because someone sells cars does not make them dishonest". If you are one of the sales persons that do business with the customers interests in mind, Congratulations!! We need more of you!!!!  I feel any sales person has the duty to inform any potential customer that what they are trying to do is or is not feasible. I have worked part time for an RV dealership for the past 9 years and I have seen some pretty shady dealings. Fortunately those people did not keep their job! That is not the case with many dealerships!!!!

There are many individuals that have limited knowledge of a subject, such as RVing, that wish to participate. They put their trust in the sales person with whom they are dealing. It is the responsibility of that sales person to provide ALL of the information the buyer needs to make a reasonable decision on the purchase! Trying to close a deal because you can make X number of dollars is not an honest way to do business. I long for the days when you could walk into any business and make a purchase knowing you were guided with honesty instead of greed. Unfortunately those days no longer exist. Fortunately there are venues such as this forum that can help guide those individuals in their decision process.

On a personal note, you have attacked Lucy as being the one that was at fault. Perhaps what she was told was incorrect. Perhaps she misunderstood what was said. I personally know Lucy and she is one of the sweetest people I have ever met. She is not a die hard RVer but wants to participate in RV activities. It surely would have helped if the dealership would have discussed what she wanted to do and provided HONEST information on the feasibility of her desires. I have seen MANY deals where the sales person said "oh, you can do that" but we had to tell them it was going to cost more money because they didn't have adequate towing/carrying capabilities!!!

I'm sorry but the sales person isn't always right!!!!!!

 

Bob Buchanan

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Carjocky:

>> And yes I am a car salesman.
====
As mentioned in another post here, I have had good experiences and bad with car sales personnel -- and also RV sales people. So as in most professions, there are good and bad. I do agree that the buyer should be well educated when buying -- and should also know what the sales strategy is in order to deal effectively. Unfortunately, the later sometimes takes years and many bad deals to figure out - and some poor souls never figure it out. So here is my pet peeve -- and would interested in your response.

The first car I purchased years ago without the help of my parents, introduced me to a sales technique that I still find -- and must outfox 50 some years later. I am initially greeted by a sales person on the lot. Actually, he/she is probably not called a sales person -- more like a greeter person. If I show some interest, almost automatically, I am being introduced to the next person in the chain. This is the one that asks the question, "What would you pay for this vehicle?" No matter what price I come up with, their response will be, "If I can get that price approved, would you buy the car today?" If I say yes, they have me fill out all the paper work involved to take to "the man" inside that makes those kinds of decisions.

Part of this strategy is obviously to get me emotionally involved now with thoughts that I may be getting this vehicle for the price I can afford. After a bit, a new person comes into the little cubicle. This dude is called a "closer". He is the one that is trained to explain to you how ridiculous my offer was and to explain how much money the dealership has invested, and all that stuff. If he plays his cards correctly, and examines and satisfies all of my "reasons I can't purchase" today -- he will have taken advantage of their success in getting me emotionally involved and into that little cubical.

The next part of the scenario is the one where the Closer becomes part of "my" team to get a price through "the main man". I have never seen this person and wonder if he/she really exist ?:). So the Closer leaves for about 10 minutes - and returns with this long look on his face -- and explains that (though it not HIS fault, but rather "the Main Man's fault" that we must bring the price up a bit more. So the con goes on and on.

Does this sound familiar -- and why do most all dealerships play this old con? I don't play or let them play the game anymore -- but for what it's worth, this is one of the main reasons your professional has a bad name.
 

Bob Buchanan

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Woody said:
There really ins't any reason for you to apologize. We have all dealt with salesman at RV dealerships that either didn't know what they were talking about or were saying whatever they had to to make the sale. That doesn't make them bad, but it does make them dishonest, same goes for car salesman.
If the truth hurts, I'm sorry, but it is still the truth.
Kinda like all the finger pointing going on about Katrina/New Orleans now. Just depends on where your poliitical view is coming from.

Woody, after rereading your post, it appears you are just talking about sales folk that "either didn't know what they were talking about . . . ", and so forth and that does not include ALL sales people. Thanks for not putting them all into one category.  Please disregard my last post.
 

Tom

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Ah, the hard sell Bob.

A few years ago our VP of sales held an international sales conference and, for a motivational speaker, invited a seasoned automotive sales pro. This guy had worked at various levels before starting his own "salesman training school" years ago. Although our semiconductor (aka silicon chip) industry had little in common with automobiles, the guy was a real hoot. He did (performed?) a skit and played the parts of the customer and the various guys you described on the other side of the table.

When it was all over the guy next to me said "I didn't hear a word he said because you were laughing so hard and so loud through the whole thing".

Every time I get asked one of those questions such as "what will it take for you to take this car home today?" I chuckle to myself and say "I went to the same class".
 

Jim Dick

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Tom said:
Every time I get asked one of those questions such as "what will it take for you to take this car home today?" I chuckle to myself and say "I went to the same class".

Tom,

That's when I walk out the door. ;D
 

Tom

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Jim

I no longer play the games. I do my homework, walk in and say "Here it is, take it or I'm leaving. No dickering".

But I still get a chuckle out of some young sales guy asking me the same dumb questions.
 
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