Dutch Star 4081 vs. Phaeton 40IH for a DP Upgrade

[Gary RV_Wizard]

Excellent answers from both Larry & UTT.

The actual performance will boil down to the Weight-to-Horsepower. The RV industry generally designs for a 100:1 ratio to get adequate performance, with "adequate" being the leisurely hill-climbing ability you describe. Heavy luxury-class coaches maybe even higher unless an engine upgrade is chosen. Compare that with the 15:1 or 20:1 common in passengers cars and SUVs and you realize the motorhome is always going to disappoint compared to cars.

My advice is to relax and accept that you aren't in a race. The vehicles that pass you on the hill will likely be encountered again when you reach the next major intersection or a fuel stop. They don't arrive much sooner than you anyway.

 

[Kirk]

They don't arrive much sooner than you anyway.

And they are frequently caught behind the slower vehicles, and it upsets them much more when that happens.

 

[Larry N.]

I'll add one more thought to nmorgan: The concentration on hill climbing performance may make you overlook the other characteristics that, long term, will actually mean more to you in comfort and utility, both on and off of the road, including ride comfort and ease of driving, as well as making the beds, sleep comfort, shower size and much more.

Floor plan, seating comfort, position when watching TV, storage space (both amount and arrangement), kitchen layout/storage/counter space, etc.; internal space when on the road, quality of seating, cabinets, etc. and a lot more will ultimately be of more importance than performance during a few minutes of a trip (it'll be great the rest of the time).

Even in the weakest of DPs you'll cruise comfortably at 65-70 mph if you wish, most of the time. Note that on my two DPs, the best fuel mileage on Interstates was usually about 62-65 mph (finally got in 6th gear), though a steady cruise at 40-45 mph might improve it a little (still in 5th gear).

 

[Utclmjmpr]

Alot also depends on gear management on hills,, many times the correct gear choice at the base of the hill will make a difference in overall performance,,,, I have always maintained that "speed when climbing is not a priority,, getting up the hill with everything in running order is"..>>>Dan

 

[nmorgan]

Thank you, all, for such sage advice. I appreciate the reset of my expectations about whisking up big climbs without any effort. You all are right... 49,000 GVWR is a lot to haul up a big hill. I'm also comforted to know that the 43' DutchStars have the same engine and gearbox, and they are 3,000 lbs heavier than the 4081. So, we may not pass cars and SUVs, but we'll at least have a chance against the longer DutchStars.

 

[Kirk]

So, we may not pass cars and SUVs, but we'll at least have a chance against the longer DutchStars.

The best solution is to learn to just enjoy the scenery and be happy with a slower pace. We were fulltime for 12 years and in all of that time, never once did I see anyone gain much from traveling faster. The views are exactly the same no matter how fast or slow you are in reaching them, or what sort of vehicle you travel in.

 

[nmorgan]

Very true, Kirk.

Additionally, I'm looking forward to not being so susceptible to being blown all over the highway when the winds start picking up. I know we're driving giant sails, but 49,000 lbs vs. 25,000 lbs has got to make a noticeable difference.

 

[Larry N.]

but 49,000 lbs vs. 25,000 lbs has got to make a noticeable difference.

And it's more than just the weight. Gas class A's have a longer piece of the body behind the rear while, giving the wind more leverage, and their center of gravity is higher than the DPs, as well. That was a major reason that I replaced my Bounder with a Beaver -- of course the air ride and a number of other factors were there, too.

 

[Derby6]

So did you make the decision/purchase?

 

[SuwanneeDave1]

Thanks, all! Love all of the feedback, advice, and technical details. We got a chance to drive both today, and while the Phaeton felt peppier, it was also very bouncy. The weight of the DutchStar really gave it a fluid ride.

So, the last real question... with the DutchStar, will I still relegated to the slow truck lane, 45 mph, blinkers on for the 4 mile long 5% grade hills we encounter on our travels? (Always avoid the true mountains)

How frequently do you really have to go up such grades. Not much compared to flat or moderate hill driving. So some time spent in the right lane won't be a big deal in the overall scheme of things.

 

[Gary RV_Wizard]

How frequently do you really have to go up such grades. Not much compared to flat or moderate hill driving. So some time spent in the right lane won't be a big deal in the overall scheme of things.

True, but sometimes the degree of frustration is out of proportion to the time or the actual effect. And some folks lack the patience to deal with things that others face philosophically.

 

[nmorgan]

Just to close the loop on this topic... we ended up with a 2023 Tiffin Allegro Bus 40IP. @Derby6 It came in on a trade with only 6,000 miles! We've taken it on one extended weekend trip to see our daughter graduate with her PhD (in Organic Chemistry of all things! Proud parents!!). It's currently in getting a few punch list items resolved plus installing Starlink and WeBoost on the roof before our 3-week tour of WI and MI starting mid-June.

Loving the ride and learning the differences between the gasser and this DP.

Thanks for all the sage wisdom and advice. I sincerely appreciate the expertise and experience in this forum!

 

[Kirk]

Thank you for taking the time to return and let us know. Please do return and let us know if you have any questions or concerns after your trip. Travel safely and have a great trip!

 

[Derby6]

Congrats. I’m jealous. I’ll admit it. Lol

 

[Gary RV_Wizard]

we ended up with a 2023 Tiffin Allegro Bus 40IP.

Excellent choice; a much nicer coach than the Phaeton! Enjoy many happy miles and campsites.