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Viajeros

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Electric will never replace the majority of cars and trucks on the road. Its a big...big dream.

Once cam-less engines come out electric will hit bottom.
I’ll disagree. The market in the world for anything with a gas tank gets smaller everyday. I think manufacturers will be very shy of throwing money at it for an ever shrinking market.
 

Jayflight

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Jan 22, 2021
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I’ll disagree. The market in the world for anything with a gas tank gets smaller everyday. I think manufacturers will be very shy of throwing money at it for an ever shrinking market.
I know I know the normal reply is that technology will evolve to the point that everything on the road will be electric in the future. So be it to argue with such short term thinking, but to date attacks on the infrastructure by our leaders that provides energy to charge the current EVs are under constant assault.

So if this does not change, we will see nothing more than more brown outs, and truly unforced flaws to the premise that the world's transportation needs will be nothing but EVs. I will add that all the EV owners want to point out changes for EVs will make it more friendly at the speed of light, so to speak. So this does not square with the constant assault on the sources that provide energy for recharging the EVs.

Of course solar on demand and solar storage requires an entirely different set up.

Not even the homes thats rigged with solar panels on the roofs designed to only meet their homes needs can provide additional and reserve energy to charge on demand and provide energy for the home unless there is a storage system set up for energy on demand without being tied to an electrical grid. Most of those solar systems alternate from solar power to conventional power grid set ups. Few people are buying batteries for the residential systems if they live in populated areas.

Sure there may be some exceptions, but the latest system that my own panic induced "the earth is going to catch on fire from climate changes" family member was running around looking for enough gas to power their generator during the latest storm. I just laughed at them since they spent 80 grand to put solar on their roofs and bragged about zero power bill, while paying 300 bucks payments a month for the system. He is 78 years old and will never see the end of that note.
 
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DonTom

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Auburn, CA or Reno, NV
Electric will never replace the majority of cars and trucks on the road. Its a big...big dream.
What makes you believe that?

Here in CA if the new EVs could keep up with the demand, it would probably already be happening with cars even without the new CA laws coming in 2035.

Trucks, motorhomes and other larger heavier vehicles will take years longer and are excluded even in CAs 2035 laws where all new CARS must be electric.

But If Tesla wasn't so busy trying to keep up with the demand for their cars, we would probably have a lot of their trucks on the road by now.

-Don- Auburn, CA
 

DonTom

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Auburn, CA or Reno, NV
we will see nothing more than more brown outs,
I doubt if we ever see the day when we have brownouts from too many EVs charging at midnight. It's always been the same reason for the brownouts. Very hot afternoons with countless A/C units on full time. A problem even well before modern EVs.

However, I can see it happening if too many people are charging for free in the daytime where they work, which is on the increase. IMO, the fix for that is for them to turn off the power to such on hot days so their employees must charge at night (home, in most cases) when other usage is very low.

An even better fix would be to somehow make much more efficient A/C units.

-Don- Auburn, CA
 

udidwht

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Jun 3, 2018
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212
Location
HB, CA. - Renton-Highlands, WA. - Fujieda Japan
What makes you believe that?

Here in CA if the new EVs could keep up with the demand, it would probably already be happening with cars even without the new CA laws coming in 2035.

Trucks, motorhomes and other larger heavier vehicles will take years longer and are excluded even in CAs 2035 laws where all new CARS must be electric.

But If Tesla wasn't so busy trying to keep up with the demand for their cars, we would probably have a lot of their trucks on the road by now.

-Don- Auburn, CA
It a proposal. A lot can happen between now and 2035. Big pipe dream. Most who are in Sacramento will be long gone by then.
 

DonTom

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Location
Auburn, CA or Reno, NV
A lot can happen between now and 2035.
What do you expect to happen if not what they plan?

It's not just CA. It's more like worldwide with the USA well behind China and the EU.

Many auto manufacturers are planning going to electric *ONLY* fairly soon. Many before 2035:

These Car Companies Are Going All-Electric:

  • GM — all-electric by 2035 Source: Getty Images ...
  • Volvo — all-electric by 2030 Swedish car brand, Volvo, has committed to transition to 100 percent renewable energy by 2030, according to Treehugger. ...
  • Uber — zero emissions by 2040 ...
  • Fedex — carbon neutral by 2040 ...
  • Jaguar — all-electric by 2025 ...
-Don- Auburn, CA
 

Babe2201

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Joined
Jul 9, 2021
Posts
786
Location
Walpole, NH
What do you expect to happen if not what they plan?

It's not just CA. It's more like worldwide with the USA well behind China and the EU.

Many auto manufacturers are planning going to electric *ONLY* fairly soon. Many before 2035:

These Car Companies Are Going All-Electric:

  • GM — all-electric by 2035 Source: Getty Images ...
  • Volvo — all-electric by 2030 Swedish car brand, Volvo, has committed to transition to 100 percent renewable energy by 2030, according to Treehugger. ...
  • Uber — zero emissions by 2040 ...
  • Fedex — carbon neutral by 2040 ...
  • Jaguar — all-electric by 2025 ...
-Don- Auburn, CA
Could that not all change if gas prices came back down to normal? If gas is not costing so much then the EV might not look as such a great investment driving the market back to ICE again.
 

DonTom

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Auburn, CA or Reno, NV
Could that not all change if gas prices came back down to normal? If gas is not costing so much then the EV might not look as such a great investment driving the market back to ICE again.
I am sure it would make some difference as EV sales went way up with the gas price. But many (like me) buy EVs for other reasons.

-Don- Auburn, CA
 

Babe2201

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786
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Walpole, NH
I wondered the same when I first read that. But I listen to what they mean, not what they say, such as Babe2201 explained here in message 189.

-Don- Auburn, CA
I can see some problems arise from that because I am pretty sure both are short on drivers and if they force the drivers to buy EV it might make them with even less drivers.
 

Viajeros

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Apr 19, 2015
Posts
1,062
I am sure it would make some difference as EV sales went way up with the gas price. But many (like me) buy EVs for other reasons.

-Don- Auburn, CA
I think you are probably right. Certainly the driving experience is a key contributor to the EV buying decision, but for many high mileage commuters it just makes fiscal sense as well.

The EV winter experience is also nice for those who have to park outside. We only have one car now so I don’t have to park outside anymore (one car garage) but before I retired winter was when I appreciated our EV’s the most. 😊

Surprisingly not to many we know buy from any environmental motivation.
 

Laura & Charles

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Jun 10, 2016
Posts
998
Location
Could be anywhere. Originally from Ohio. Go Bucks!
I think you are probably right. Certainly the driving experience is a key contributor to the EV buying decision, but for many high mileage commuters it just makes fiscal sense as well.

The EV winter experience is also nice for those who have to park outside. We only have one car now so I don’t have to park outside anymore (one car garage) but before I retired winter was when I appreciated our EV’s the most. 😊

Surprisingly not to many we know buy from any environmental motivation.

I’ve always assumed EVs faired poor in temp extremes due to high draw for either heat or A/C. Not performance, but distance between charges. Can you elaborate a bit on why you value EVs in winter?
 

Viajeros

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Joined
Apr 19, 2015
Posts
1,062
I’ve always assumed EVs faired poor in temp extremes due to high draw for either heat or A/C. Not performance, but distance between charges. Can you elaborate a bit on why you value EVs in winter?
It depends on the persons usage I guess. Most of what we do in the winter is commuting so the reduced range just doesn’t matter. But huge advantages in terms of liveability. Pretty much instantly warm, windows clear, seats toasty. All within a few minutes of selecting preheat on the phone app. Just can’t do that with a gasser or diesel. Everybody else on our block is scraping windows or running the car for 10 minutes just to get a little heat inside.

Our longest road trips in winter are about 470 kilometres to Vancouver. So all the reduced winter range means is our halfway break is 20 minutes instead 10 minutes of charging. In Merritt. Takes pretty much that much time to get our coffees and pee break anyway so that aspect really doesn’t affect us. Everybody has different needs of course.
 

Jayflight

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Joined
Jan 22, 2021
Posts
905
I doubt if we ever see the day when we have brownouts from too many EVs charging at midnight. It's always been the same reason for the brownouts. Very hot afternoons with countless A/C units on full time. A problem even well before modern EVs.

However, I can see it happening if too many people are charging for free in the daytime where they work, which is on the increase. IMO, the fix for that is for them to turn off the power to such on hot days so their employees must charge at night (home, in most cases) when other usage is very low.

An even better fix would be to somehow make much more efficient A/C units.

-Don- Auburn, CA
At least you admit that there is a problem with the electric grid not being able to handle the current needs for the citizens with their toys and even their necessities. So people drive their EVs to work, and need power to get home, but should not be allowed to charge them while they work now?

So the citizens needs to pick their times to use their electricity, while knowing that Ca. has already had serious issues with the electrical grid, creating brown outs and blackouts. They have surely had a long time to correct this problem,

I thought we lived in a developed country. You are accepting the notion that if people do not go without electricity, the public officials will and can just take it away from them. Nuts, Howabout you demand that your officials fix the grid and if not vote them out or recall them.

And now we know that the state of Ca is banning gas appliances, which people cook with. But the citizens have no real choice if your wish to eat at the normal times but to burden the grid even more as people are forced to abandon their gas appliances and buy electric appliances. .

So as the push to dismantle our current power sources is taking place, which cannot keep up with the current needs now, Ca. is a long ways without a good and credible plan as they phase out well known and dependable energy sources if the bans of comfortable creature comforts such as gas appliances to cook their food continues to take place. Whats next to be banned or altered, probably electricity for gasoline pumps every other day of the week?

In 2021 Ca got 17 percent of its energy from solar, according to the Ca. Energy Commission. But the state cannot produce enough electricity now with alternative sources of energy, working with conventional means.

Now expand that to the national policy, and you expect the country to prosper using just solar and wind turbines? Our food sources are dependent on fossil fuels and if you want stuff on the shelves at your local grocery store, fossil fuels are essential to plow and plant the fields and them essential to harvest , process it and then bring it to you.

The country is getting the cart before the horse throwing away billions on charging stations. As we are constantly told, technology continues to change. So will this current policy and equipment be outdated in a couple of years when all these supposed EVs hit the road?

The average working class, which many here cannot relate to cannot afford to buy brand new cars of any type, which also requires people to install charging stations these days if your premise is that the owners charge their vehicles only overnight. Life is just not that simple.

Rental apartments currently do not have chargers in every parking space either. Its nice sounding when the leaders push this ev agenda. But not even a single handful live the talk. I guess I had better shut up and move along.
.
Solar thermal facilities are concentrated in the desert areas of the state in the Mojave area. In 2021, solar PV and solar thermal power plants produced 33,670 gigawatt-hours (GWh) of energy or 17.31 percent of California's in-state generation portfolio. A total of 776 operating Solar power plants, with an installed capacity about 15,206 megawatts, are in California.

 

Babe2201

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 9, 2021
Posts
786
Location
Walpole, NH
At least you admit that there is a problem with the electric grid not being able to handle the current needs for the citizens with their toys and even their necessities. So people drive their EVs to work, and need power to get home, but should not be allowed to charge them while they work now?

So the citizens needs to pick their times to use their electricity, while knowing that Ca. has already had serious issues with the electrical grid, creating brown outs and blackouts. They have surely had a long time to correct this problem,

I thought we lived in a developed country. You are accepting the notion that if people do not go without electricity, the public officials will and can just take it away from them. Nuts, Howabout you demand that your officials fix the grid and if not vote them out or recall them.

And now we know that the state of Ca is banning gas appliances, which people cook with. But the citizens have no real choice if your wish to eat at the normal times but to burden the grid even more as people are forced to abandon their gas appliances and buy electric appliances. .

So as the push to dismantle our current power sources is taking place, which cannot keep up with the current needs now, Ca. is a long ways without a good and credible plan as they phase out well known and dependable energy sources if the bans of comfortable creature comforts such as gas appliances to cook their food continues to take place. Whats next to be banned or altered, probably electricity for gasoline pumps every other day of the week?

In 2021 Ca got 17 percent of its energy from solar, according to the Ca. Energy Commission. But the state cannot produce enough electricity now with alternative sources of energy, working with conventional means.

Now expand that to the national policy, and you expect the country to prosper using just solar and wind turbines? Our food sources are dependent on fossil fuels and if you want stuff on the shelves at your local grocery store, fossil fuels are essential to plow and plant the fields and them essential to harvest , process it and then bring it to you.

The country is getting the cart before the horse throwing away billions on charging stations. As we are constantly told, technology continues to change. So will this current policy and equipment be outdated in a couple of years when all these supposed EVs hit the road?

The average working class, which many here cannot relate to cannot afford to buy brand new cars of any type, which also requires people to install charging stations these days if your premise is that the owners charge their vehicles only overnight. Life is just not that simple.

Rental apartments currently do not have chargers in every parking space either. Its nice sounding when the leaders push this ev agenda. But not even a single handful live the talk. I guess I had better shut up and move along.
.


Don't you know that none of this stuff is important. ICE vehicles are loud, stinky, and absolutely ruining the planet so everyone needs to just shut up and go buy new EVs whether the infrastructure is ready or will ever be ready for it.
 

Viajeros

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Joined
Apr 19, 2015
Posts
1,062
It’s a 35 year transition. Modern countries are not having any issues dealing with the changes. It takes times and literally covers two generations. Plans can be modified along the way.
 

DonTom

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Joined
Apr 21, 2005
Posts
8,560
Location
Auburn, CA or Reno, NV
So people drive their EVs to work, and need power to get home, but should not be allowed to charge them while they work now?
Charging at work is probably close to 100% "opportunity charging". A common EV term for those who charge when it is NOT at all needed. It's free (or somebody else is paying, in most cases) so why not charge when you still have 70% of your charge left and get to 100% SOC but only need 5% to get home?

I have "opportunity charged" countless times. If I am going to be in a building for 30 minutes and it has a free charge station outside, I will probably use it yet don't need it at all.

A few months ago, I had to renew my driver's license at the Reno DMV. They have several charge stations. Of course, I got my free one-hour slow charge while inside. Wasn't at all needed. 40 miles of range added for free at no cost to me in time or in money. Who wouldn't? But if there were no charge stations there, I would not have cared much.

Before and since then, I have also had many meals at restaurants that had free slow charging. I never needed ANY of those charges ever. 100% opportunity charging at such places. Reno has free slow charging just about everywhere I go. Not any of them were needed, but I used them. On both my electric motorcycles and cars.

I doubt of many need a 300 mile charge to get home from work!

There are also several free slow charge stations near Auburn. And the free DC fast charger at Donner Summit that I used to other day. But that was NOT opportunity charging because I need one charge to get here on my motorcycle from Reno. That free fast charger is at a perfect location, very top of the hill halfway here.

Free DC fast charging is rare, but exists at some places such as the Donnor Summit Rest Stop (7,240' elevation).

-Don- Auburn, CA
 

DonTom

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Joined
Apr 21, 2005
Posts
8,560
Location
Auburn, CA or Reno, NV
At least you admit that there is a problem with the electric grid
Of course there will be a problem if everybody charges their EV at the same time on a hot afternoon. But that is totally unnecessary and very unlikely to happen.

No more likely than everybody's clothes drier running at the same time.

But with home A/C units on hot afternoons--there is the real serious issue to the grid. All on at the same time in the same areas. That's what really needs fixing. I don't have an answer for that one.

-Don- Auburn, CA
 

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