Electrical problem

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skydivemark

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Joined
Oct 3, 2015
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480
Location
North East Tennessee
2015 Thor 4 winds 31L. Genny quits when start switch released but that's not my main issue. Last time I tried it the pump light stayed on a after releasing switch and I had to press the start switch "down" (like priming the carb) a few times to get it to stop. Now we can't get the house battery to come on. I don't hear the relay clicking when switching it on or off. When we plugged in to shore power I got the relay to disengage but it wont re-engage, so now the fridge won't work while travelling. Also the gen won't even crank (in the house or at gen-set) or get the fuel pump to come on.
Is there usually a main fuse from the battery? I don't see any bad fuses in the power box (under the bed) and a couple of them are 40Amp fuses.
 
Fuel or low oil issue on the generator.
Dead battery.
Yes there will be a resettable circuit breaker after the battery + .  Usually near the other breakera.
 
Fuel pressure switch or oil pressure switch could be bad.  Jump the oil pressure switch temporairly and see what happens.
 
Oil pressure switch? It's an onan 4k gen - no oil pump or oil press sw. Also no fuel press sw.
Right now I'm not concerned about the Gen. Just want the batteries on to keep the fridge going til we get home.
Both batteries are at 12.6V.
 
Follow the battery + you should find a resettable breaker.  Likely it is a small metal rectangle.  On the bottom there is usually a VERY small button.  Push it up.
Even on my Honda lawn mower there is a low oil pressure switch.  So there is one.
Most generators will shut down when thw fuel tank drops to about a quarter tank.
 
On my FW, on the back side of the battery compartment are about 4 things that look like terminal blocks.  They are actually breakers for the landing gear and slides.
 
The other thing that will make an Onan shut down when you release the Start switch is no AC output from the generator.  It doesn't matter if the citcuit breaker is tripped or not, the voltage the control board is monitoring is before the breaker.
 
Lou Schneider said:
The other thing that will make an Onan shut down when you release the Start switch is no AC output from the generator.  It doesn't matter if the circuit breaker is tripped or not, the voltage the control board is monitoring is before the breaker.
And that would likely be a stator, correct? I'll dig into that problem after we get home.  Priority now is the battery so  fridge and water work while travelling. Getting ready to crawl around on the gravel parking spot under the coach - fun times!
 
Didn't find anything obvious. Did find where the wires go up under the bed but nothing nearby there either. Guess it's no fridge on the way home.
We have a couple empty gallon jugs will fill with water for flushing & the dogs. Need to get back on the road.
Looks like Another project (or 2) when we get home. Yay!
 
skydivemark said:
And that would likely be a stator, correct? I'll dig into that problem after we get home.  Priority now is the battery so  fridge and water work while travelling. Getting ready to crawl around on the gravel parking spot under the coach - fun times!
Not necessarily, it could be a bad regulator board or stuck brushes or dirty slip rings that are impeding the field voltage from reaching the rotor.

Take a look at flightsystems.com.  They make replacement circuit boards for both RV and commercial generators and offer a wide range of free services, from an excellent printed troubleshooting guide to YouTube videos and even 30 minutes of free telephone support by appointment.
 
Lou Schneider said:
Not necessarily, it could be a bad regulator board or stuck brushes or dirty slip rings that are impeding the field voltage from reaching the rotor.

Take a look at flightsystems.com.  They make replacement circuit boards for both RV and commercial generators and offer a wide range of free services, from an excellent printed troubleshooting guide to YouTube videos and even 30 minutes of free telephone support by appointment.
Thanks Lou, I've heard of that site. Didn't kmow they gave free phone support. Might be of use. .
Still have to figure out the battery problem since it effects pretty much everything.
It might take me a week or 2 to start digging into it. Back to work tomorrow. I will update with my findings.
 
skydivemark,
I'm sorry to say I don't have any specific ideas.
The store/use relay not engaging is the most concerning issue in my thinking.... seems like it is yours too.  The thing to chase first.

random thoughts
1) it seems like a dead battery in that everything is dead...no clicks.  sounds like you've verified voltage at the battery at least.  Have you verified voltage at the relay itself?

2) the next thought is the fuses at the relay.  Mine has a couple of 5 amp fuses...those inline fuse holder things that hold a flat automotive type fuse.  They seem to be tapping the power form the battery side post and the other from the other side.... I'm guessing at least one of them is what is sending power back to the switch by the door, to pull in the relay...I think both do.  Maybe a blown fuse there?  pages 2 and 3 of my schematic set.  Do you have schematics?  Mine are very sadly done, and prob different than your newer rig, but I'd be happy to send them to you...maybe they could help till you get the current ones for your rig.  Let me know.

3) Next thought, loops me back around to what others have pointed to.  There seems to be a breaker between the battery and the relay.  If you have voltage at the relay then this should be good I think... but if you don't then that is what I would look for.  I have not had to locate where mine is yet.


re. the generator...I think what you are saying is that the last time you cranked the starter 'without actually starting', the little red light stayed on.  Turned off after pressing stop a few times.
Mine does that all the time.
seems to be various faults that 'lock it out'
it won't start or even try to run the starter while it's lit.
and the faults are 'cleared' by pressing stop till the light turns off.  Then it will crank again.

My genny seems to be the most ornery and temperamental thing.  I can't believe how sorry the thing is.  I can see no reason why an engine like that wouldn't be as reliable as my chevy pick-up's is today, after almost 200,000 miles!
& It seems like mine is not unique.  Seems like all the onans do it.  The bigger diesel rigs seem to be much better from what I can tell reading the forums, but they're not without issues.

As you might know, I did some work to improve the cooling air flow.  Also re-routed the fuel line and insulated it.  It does seem to handle the heat noticeably better now.
It always takes more time than I think it should to get it primed and started...but once it goes the genny will run fine..... many times over many days....then without warning it'll just die.  or sometimes it will stutter and stumble then die.  other times it will stutter and stumble but keep running.

If i crank it a little too long...like maybe i didn't prime it enough, it will fault and "lock out" and won't crank again till I clear it by pressing stop a few times.

after that, sometimes I can get it running again and it just runs smooth.  Other times I can get it to start and it just spits and sputters a bit then dies again...and again....
then the next time I try it....maybe the next day...it fires up and runs like it ought to without problem.
and it's not always doing this stuff when it's hot.  Seems much more random and not related to weather and temperature

oh, & I have yet to find any benefit in reading the fault codes. It always seems to be some generic code.... to bring it in for service.
which is what I would love to do
....if I had time and a convenient place to take it.
but I have little confidence that they would make it any better anyway.
Just last week I was thinking of trying to make a plan to get it to an onan shop....but other times when it's come to that, the thing will run like a honda for days and I figure why bother?

anyway, good luck with yours!  hopefully when you get the relay sorted the genny will be fine.
 
blw2 said:
skydivemark,
I'm sorry to say I don't have any specific ideas.
The store/use relay not engaging is the most concerning issue in my thinking.... seems like it is yours too.  The thing to chase first.

random thoughts
1) it seems like a dead battery in that everything is dead...no clicks.  sounds like you've verified voltage at the battery at least.  Have you verified voltage at the relay itself?

2) the next thought is the fuses at the relay.  Mine has a couple of 5 amp fuses...those inline fuse holder things that hold a flat automotive type fuse.  They seem to be tapping the power form the battery side post and the other from the other side.... I'm guessing at least one of them is what is sending power back to the switch by the door, to pull in the relay...I think both do.  Maybe a blown fuse there?  pages 2 and 3 of my schematic set.  Do you have schematics?  Mine are very sadly done, and prob different than your newer rig, but I'd be happy to send them to you...maybe they could help till you get the current ones for your rig.  Let me know.

3) Next thought, loops me back around to what others have pointed to.  There seems to be a breaker between the battery and the relay.  If you have voltage at the relay then this should be good I think... but if you don't then that is what I would look for.  I have not had to locate where mine is yet.


re. the generator...I think what you are saying is that the last time you cranked the starter 'without actually starting', the little red light stayed on.  Turned off after pressing stop a few times.
Mine does that all the time.
seems to be various faults that 'lock it out'
it won't start or even try to run the starter while it's lit.
and the faults are 'cleared' by pressing stop till the light turns off.  Then it will crank again.

My genny seems to be the most ornery and temperamental thing.  I can't believe how sorry the thing is.  I can see no reason why an engine like that wouldn't be as reliable as my chevy pick-up's is today, after almost 200,000 miles!
& It seems like mine is not unique.  Seems like all the onans do it.  The bigger diesel rigs seem to be much better from what I can tell reading the forums, but they're not without issues.

As you might know, I did some work to improve the cooling air flow.  Also re-routed the fuel line and insulated it.  It does seem to handle the heat noticeably better now.
It always takes more time than I think it should to get it primed and started...but once it goes the genny will run fine..... many times over many days....then without warning it'll just die.  or sometimes it will stutter and stumble then die.  other times it will stutter and stumble but keep running.

If i crank it a little too long...like maybe i didn't prime it enough, it will fault and "lock out" and won't crank again till I clear it by pressing stop a few times.

after that, sometimes I can get it running again and it just runs smooth.  Other times I can get it to start and it just spits and sputters a bit then dies again...and again....
then the next time I try it....maybe the next day...it fires up and runs like it ought to without problem.
and it's not always doing this stuff when it's hot.  Seems much more random and not related to weather and temperature

oh, & I have yet to find any benefit in reading the fault codes. It always seems to be some generic code.... to bring it in for service.
which is what I would love to do
....if I had time and a convenient place to take it.
but I have little confidence that they would make it any better anyway.
Just last week I was thinking of trying to make a plan to get it to an onan shop....but other times when it's come to that, the thing will run like a honda for days and I figure why bother?

anyway, good luck with yours!  hopefully when you get the relay sorted the genny will be fine.
Thanks Brad. I do have schematics but we were on the road and haven't looked at them - yet - .
Been busy all day today and likely won't have a chance to get into it til at least next week due to my work schedule. Yes The battery problem started last time I attempted to start the gen.
Now nothing at all works on battery, including the dash radio/rear view camera, fridge and gen starter etc - not even a click so it is probably the main inline breaker/fuse -- where ever that is. I seems the main battery relay isn't getting any power at all. Once we got shore power it did shut off (the click/thunk is obvious on this coach) but wouldn't do anything else.
Once I get the battery to turn on then I will tackle the gen issue.
I will update when I dig into it.
 
just a bit to add....
I went to the storage yard today to tinker a bit on a project I'm doing...adding a 12V charging station bedside so I can charge phones and such back there when off grid boondocking....

anyway, I should have remembered this, but I had found the auto rest breaker before.  It's mounted with a very short wire form the relay, mounted just below it.

here's a picture I had
the breaker is mounted below and to the right of the relay box, with the blue crimp ring terminals.  On mine, the left side of the relay is the battery side, the right goes to the converter box
 

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The Store use relay (Solenoid is a big relay)

ON my rig back in 2006 that happened. I pressed STORE and it went CLUNK and power was down

I pressed USE and nothing. absolutly nothing. no clunk no power (The no clunk is diagnostic by the way) Still clunked if I pressed store.

PUlled power from teh switch and pressed use/ then store like 50 times each. Restored power to the switch and CLUNK power to everything.
 
blw2 said:
just a bit to add....
I went to the storage yard today to tinker a bit on a project I'm doing...adding a 12V charging station bedside so I can charge phones and such back there when off grid boondocking....

anyway, I should have remembered this, but I had found the auto rest breaker before.  It's mounted with a very short wire form the relay, mounted just below it.

here's a picture I had
the breaker is mounted below and to the right of the relay box, with the blue crimp ring terminals.  On mine, the left side of the relay is the battery side, the right goes to the converter box
Would I be correct in assuming that's under the bed? Looks like your looking down at it, as if you lifted the mattress right?
I have yet to up the mattress and look under it  maybe I should have, while we were on the road, could've at least got the fridge going. I'll look when I get home.
 
skydivemark said:
Would I be correct in assuming that's under the bed? Looks like your looking down at it, as if you lifted the mattress right?
I have yet to up the mattress and look under it  maybe I should have, while we were on the road, could've at least got the fridge going. I'll look when I get home.

correct and correct.looking down into the hole, mine is mounted to the left...just behind the converter box
 
blw2 said:
correct and correct.looking down into the hole, mine is mounted to the left...just behind the converter box
Not sure why I didn't think to look under the mattress. All I did was crawl down and look at the circuit box at the foot end of the bed for bad fuses.
Hopefully I'll have time to look when I get home tonight.
 

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