Equalize your deep cycle batteries

[Ron3]

I am a firm believer in equalization of wet cell batteries.  Since most of our boondocking adventures take place in the December - February time frame I do equalize the batteries sometime before the boondocking begins.

 

[BernieD1]

I haven't had the need for the controller on the Trace. We don't seem to run so much on inverter power in the coach, except when we're driving down the freeway and then the alternator is providing the 12V input.

Tom

Because you haven't had the need to equalized yet ;D ;D  Actually the controller does a lot better job reporting on battery status and setting up your inverter than the idiot Xantrex LEDs that the coach comes with.

 

[Tom]

I know Bernie. That's why I have the Link 2000 on the boat. One of these days I'll get around to buying the equivalent for the coach.

 

[Karl1]

O.k. folks,

Here are the answers direct from the horse's mouth (Lifeline):
1. You do indeed equalize AGM's when necessary to remove sulfation.
2. You'll know when to do it when you notice decreased capacity i.e., shorter draw-down time before recharging is necessary.
3. Equalization voltage for AGM's is 15.6 volts for 6-8 hours, may be necessary to repeat.
4. There are internal valves to relieve pressure buildup set at about 2 p.s.i.
5. It is NOT necessary to do a full charge before equalization.
6. If you don't draw below 50% capacity (occasionally is o.k.), you shouldn't have to equalize.
7. When charging, charge fully. Don't stop when you think the charge current has dropped to a level YOU like. Let it go into float.
8. Those 'pulse chargers' don't remove or prevent sulfation. They don't work.

 

[Tom]

Thanks Karl. That should help clarify some of the confusion and blow away some of the myths.

 

[Ned]

5. It is NOT necessary to do a full charge before equalization.

This is contradicted on the Lifeline web site (http://www.lifelinebatteries.com/manual.php).? It states to do a full charge cycle before equalizing:

In the event equalization is necessary, make sure to go through the normal charge cycle. Once the battery is as fully charged as possible, equalizing may begin.

7. When charging, charge fully. Don't stop when you think the charge current has dropped to a level YOU like. Let it go into float.

This is Ok if you're on shore power, but then you wouldn't be discharging the batteries.? When dry camping, you rarely charge above 80%.

From the manual: For maximum battery life, a battery must be recharged to 100% capacity. Recharging less than 100% may result in premature battery failure.

This is contradictory to the way deep cycle batteries are used in a typical application, i.e. dry camping or alternative energy systems.

8. Those 'pulse chargers' don't remove or prevent sulfation. They don't work.

I think we knew that, even if we would like to believe it? :

 

[Tom]

It states to do a full charge cycle before equalizing:
In the event equalization is necessary, make sure to go through the normal charge cycle. Once the battery is as fully charged as possible, equalizing may begin.

Having done it both ways with no apparent detrimental effect, here's my take on that ..... if the equalization cycle is started before the batteries are fully charged, the initial part of the equalization cycle is lost to normal charging until the batteries come up to full charge. In my case, the Heart charger limits the equalization current, and so this effectively limits the charging current during that period. The result is that the batteries take longer to get to full charge before equalization begins than they would on the normal charge cycle (which is at 140A in the bulk charge state).

 

[Ned]

I understand the reason for the full charge, I was just pointing out that Karl got some information from Lifeline that contradicts their own manual.? Like most tech support calls, talk to 3 different people, get 3 different answers

 

[Ecker]

O.k. folks,

Here are the answers direct from the horse's mouth (Lifeline):
1. You do indeed equalize AGM's when necessary to remove sulfation.
2. You'll know when to do it when you notice decreased capacity i.e., shorter draw-down time before recharging is necessary.
3. Equalization voltage for AGM's is 15.6 volts for 6-8 hours, may be necessary to repeat.
4. There are internal valves to relieve pressure buildup set at about 2 p.s.i.
5. It is NOT necessary to do a full charge before equalization.
6. If you don't draw below 50% capacity (occasionally is o.k.), you shouldn't have to equalize.
7. When charging, charge fully. Don't stop when you think the charge current has dropped to a level YOU like. Let it go into float.
8. Those 'pulse chargers' don't remove or prevent sulfation. They don't work.

Those answers don't totally match those I posted earlier as a result of talking to David Godber at Lifeline so who knows, but he should . As to the pulse not working - maybe the product made by Pulse-tech does i.e. can't paint all products with same brush. Here is quote from compny web site - again who knows  ???

Our products have been evaluated by NASA, Stennis Space Center, Management Equipment Evaluation Program (U.S. Air Force), the Army Research Lab, battery, auto and boat manufacturers, as well as commercial customers and individuals. The answer from all is the same??This product does exactly what you say it does!? One evaluating source even stated in their conclusions that ?we can?t tell you exactly how long a Solargizer will make a battery last, but we estimate it will add at least eight to ten years of life?.

 

[Karl1]

Geez, you guys are tough!

Everyone's right. Ned says talk to 3 different guys and get 3 different answers. Well, I talked to 2 guys and got the same answer.
Contradicting your own instructions? What can I say - things change and if experience and testing says you must modify or change your original recommendations - Hey, that's progress.

As to the pulse technology - I think it's snake oil in a long-chain polymer wrapper. The only way to prove or dissprove it would be side-by-side blind testing under the same conditions for 5+ years.

?This product does exactly what you say it does!?

means about as much as a used car salesman's pitch. Caveat Emptor!!!

 

[Tom]

One of the conditions that leads to the buildup of sulphates and the stratification of specific gravity is a battery sitting idle, both physically and electrically, for a long time. Since the deep cycle batteries on my coach are being charged by the engine alternator, assuming that I was driving the coach regularly, wouldn't this suggest that these deep cycle batteries shouldn't need equalizing?

In practice, our coach sits unused for months at a time, so I realize the above wouldn't necessarily be true in this case.

 

[Ecker]

One of the conditions that leads to the buildup of sulphates and the stratification of specific gravity is a battery sitting idle, both physically and electrically, for a long time. Since the deep cycle batteries on my coach are being charged by the engine alternator, assuming that I was driving the coach regularly, wouldn't this suggest that these deep cycle batteries shouldn't need equalizing?

In practice, our coach sits unused for months at a time, so I realize the above wouldn't necessarily be true in this case.

That was comment of the person I talked to at Lifeline as I reported earlier. To repeat. He said he seldom sees an RV that needs equalization and certainly not very often. He opined that only would be required if one put unit in storage and let battery die thus leading to sulfation. This was totally different than sail boats where because of repeated low charge status because of lack of chargiing for periods of time.

 

[Tom]

That was comment of the person I talked to at Lifeline as I reported earlier.

Sorry Leo, I missed it earlier.

 

[Karl1]

Leo,

Our products have been evaluated by NASA, Stennis Space Center, Management Equipment Evaluation Program (U.S. Air Force), the Army Research Lab, battery, auto and boat manufacturers, as well as commercial customers and individuals. The answer from all is the same??This product does exactly what you say it does!? .

Let me play Devil's Advocate for a moment. While these organization may have evaluated them, we know nothing about the test procedures, conditions, or what exactly they were evaluating, and while they may be paraphrasing, I find it hard to believe they all said the same thing - ?This product does exactly what you say it does!? . That tells us nothing, and rings hollow without seeing their actual test results and wording. Nothing works perfectly under all conditions, and battery manufacturers would have added these units 'under the covers' long ago in order to corner the market with the longest lasting, most reliable battery available.

One evaluating source even stated in their conclusions that ?we can?t tell you exactly how long a Solargizer will make a battery last, but we estimate it will add at least eight to ten years of life?.

Hogwash! You can make a dry cell battery last 20 to 30 years or more - if you don't use it and keep it in a freezer. Similar longevity can be had with lead/acid and other batteries if you don't use them and merely keep them on float at low temps. Heck, a jar of peanut butter will last forever if you don't open it and eat it! ;D

 

[Ecker]

Leo,

Let me play Devil's Advocate for a moment.

Well, playing it the other way. Your comments don't disprove it. I think if I was in a position where battery failures were too frequent for some reason due to duty cycle or some other factor, I do a couple of things like ask for any test results done by government (there in the public domain), call or visit those who were applying them (like railroad and CocaCola Bottling, etc) and then maybe spend a little money to test to see for myself if the foregoing data indicated some sort of improvement but not conclusive. Like I said early on - its a "maybe".  ???

 

[Jeff3]

At FMCA last year at Redmond I sat through a seminar put on by one of the battery companies, Interstate I think.

The speaker was asked about only discharging to the 80% and 50% state and replied that that would prolong the life of the battery because it only had "X" number of cycles in its life but his real point was that almost no one uses all the cycles and if you discharged to 20% charge once a week you would still have 10-12 years of battery life.

Point was that overcharging, letting battery boil dry to the point plates are exposed, heat, cold, etc will probably determine battery life for most of us.

 

[Karl1]

Leo,

Totally agree - the jury is still out. I may do just that; get a couple small lead/acid batteries and rig up a 'shocker' (my term), and discharge/charge them at the same rate/cycles, then continuously monitor their health.

Jeff,

Very true - we are our own worst enemies when it comes to abusing them, and then ask why they failed :-\  But honestly, I think 10-12 years under even the best circumstances may be a little optomistic.

 

[Jeff3]

Karl:

I think speaker's point was to go ahead and use batteries below 80% and occasionally below 50% because the life will be affected by other factors. I don't know how many times I have startred a generator to keep charge up when I needed a few extra Watts.

 

[Frank B]

All:

So, what is the 'bottom line' here?  You all convinced me to buy some golf cart batteries.  Does one need to equalize them or not?

Thanks.

Frank.

 

[Jeff3]

Yep. : : :