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[DonTom]

Believe what you want to believe regardless of reality.

What I want to believe is whatever the truth really is and there are no exceptions, even including when I do not like the truth.

But I have to wonder why you didn't answer the question.

While I agree the embargo could cause a gasoline shortage, I do NOT agree that it was the cause of the long gas station lines at the three gas stations open on some days in all of the SF Bay Area. The reason for the long lines was ONLY because of the games the oil companies played. No other reason is even possible.

Those 3 stations NEVER ran out of gasoline during that time--always open.

If a gasoline line is a mile long, put that same gasoline in 100 different gas stations in the same area--now the lines are 100th as long with the same amount of gasoline being sold. Simple math.

BTW, I wish they would try to play that same game today. Think how EV sales would increase.

-Don- Reno, NV

 

[Chef Duane]

What I want to believe is whatever the truth really is and there are no exceptions, even including when I do not like the truth.

But I have to wonder why you didn't answer the question.

So you only believe what you believe is the truth? OK.

You can wonder all you want but what you posted was your own speculation on your version of the truth.
Too much of a pissing contest to get involved in debating speculation.

 

[DonTom]

but what you posted was your own speculation on your version of the truth.

My version? Simple math is fact. Has nothing to do with my beliefs.

If only one gas station is open, the line will be long regardless of the amount of gasoline that is available. That is pretty simple to understand. Open more stations and the lines are MUCH shorter with the EXACT same amount of gasoline available. No need for the long lines no matter how we look at it.

Already explained in previous messages, so I won't go there again.

-Don- Reno, NV

 

[John From Detroit]

So you only believe what you believe is the truth? OK.

This is sounding rather political but I am going to comment on this one line. Why?

Well I dare say all people believe what they Believe is the Truth. No matter of what they believe.
If they know it's fantasy..> (I do read a lot of fantasy) Then they do not "Believe" it Save for the duration of the story . One of the advantages of reading a lot of fantasy... You learn to tell the difference.

So.. You say the person you are arguing only believes what he believes is the Truth.
Well. Back at you.. and me, and everyone. We believe what we Believe is the truth.

When I read say "The Downloaded" by Rob Sawyer. I know the Quantum computer that stores the minds of the astronauts and criminals is fantasy. And hope the Thermonuclear war that ends the world remains so as well.

 

[old RV guy]

I just find it so ironic that just a few short years ago many people though Elon Musk was saving the world from oil, but now that he doesn't toe their line, he's the antichrist and they firebomb his products.

Tesla's quarterly earnings report yesterday was the firebomb. EV sales are actually doing well for the rest of the industry.
Now however would be a good time to buy a used Tesla, demand for them is rock bottom and the auction barns have lots of them. Used car buyers for the dealerships won't touch them right now.

 

[Lou Schneider]

While I agree the embargo could cause a gasoline shortage, I do NOT agree that it was the cause of the long gas station lines at the three gas stations open on some days in all of the SF Bay Area. The reason for the long lines was ONLY because of the games the oil companies played. No other reason is even possible.

I'm sorry your mind is closed, but it wasn't the oil companies playing games, the government created the gas lines by telling the oil companies how to distribute the available fuel in an attempt to equalize the pain. My dad worked in logistics for Chevron at that time and he often came home complaining how the government wasn't letting him do his job and alleviate the shortages.

There was only about a 10% shortfall but tying the hands of the oil companies caused urban areas to come up short while places outside the major population centers often had more than enough fuel due to shifting demand. City people stopped taking pleasure trips out to the country and the reduced demand meant stations outside the major metro areas usually had more than enough fuel to go around.

You may recall after a few weeks the lines disappeared even though the embargo was still ongoing. This was because government returned control on how the fuel was distributed to the oil companies and people like my dad were able to shift supplies around and eliminate the worst of the shortages.

 

[old RV guy]

It wasn't the oil companies playing games, the government created the lines by telling the oil companies how to distribute the limited gasoline supply in an attempt to equalize the pain. There was only about a 10% shortfall but the oil companies were told how to distribute the fuel to individual areas. This resulted in urban gas stations being disproportionately short on fuel while rural stations often had more than enough due to reduced demand because city people weren't taking pleasure drives into the surrounding areas.

My dad worked for Chevron in logistics during that time and he often came home complaining how he wasn't able to do his job and alleviate the lines.

You may recall after a few weeks the lines disappeared even though the embargo was still ongoing. This was because government returned control on how the fuel was distributed to the oil companies and people like my dad were able to shift supplies around and eliminate the worst of the shortages.

Sounds like a conpiracy theory to me. What kind of gov't agency would be capable of micro managing exactly where the hundreds, if not thousands, of distributors directed their supply of gas?

 

[Lou Schneider]

Sounds like a conpiracy theory to me. What kind of gov't agency would be capable of micro managing exactly where the hundreds, if not thousands, of distributors directed their supply of gas?

It was actually pretty straightforward. The government simply limited all fuel sellers to a percentage (90% or so) of the fuel they purchased during the same week the previous year.

Shifting demand from people staying home instead of taking a country drive, filling up while they were out there and bringing at least a partial tank of gas back into the city ensured most of the shortfall was felt in urban areas.

 

[DonTom]

I'm sorry your mind is closed, but it wasn't the oil companies playing games, the government created the gas lines by telling the oil companies how to distribute the available fuel in an attempt to equalize the pain.

Seemed to me that was the cause of the pain, since only a couple of gas stations stayed open in the SF Bay area on some days. And those never ran out, even with their half mile or so gas lines.

And I recall all the related issues that caused, even cops giving tickets to those in the gas line for blocking traffic.

I don't recall it was our government doing it, but that could be as back then it seemed to me the oil companies were controlling our government in many ways.

No doubt the long lines reduced the gasoline demand greatly by reducing unnecessary driving, if that were the idea to begin with.

My parents somehow managed to get gasoline one day back then and they let me siphon five gallons from the car they filled up to my 1971 BMW motorcycle which I still own today. I made sure that gasoline lasted a long time.

So if that were the idea, to have unnecessary long gas lines to cut unnecessary driving, it worked well to reduce the demand.

-Don- Reno, NV

 

[old RV guy]

I don't recall it was our government doing it, but that could be as back then it seemed to me the oil companies were controlling our government in many ways.


-Don- Reno, NV

Say it ain't so. The notion that politicians are motivated by greed and self preservation is unpatriotic.

 

[old RV guy]

It was actually pretty straightforward. The government simply limited all fuel sellers to a percentage (90% or so) of the fuel they purchased during the same week the previous year.

Shifting demand from people staying home instead of taking a country drive, filling up while they were out there and bringing at least a partial tank of gas back into the city ensured most of the shortfall was felt in urban areas.

Perhaps. Another theory might be there more cars in urban areas competing for a limited supply of gas.

 

[Chef Duane]

Well I dare say all people believe what they Believe is the Truth. No matter of what they believe.

So.. You say the person you are arguing only believes what he believes is the Truth.
Well. Back at you.. and me, and everyone. We believe what we Believe is the truth.

Exactly. Agree completely. People believe what they believe is the truth regardless of what IS the actual truth. Sometimes they match up, sometimes they don't. But for someone to represent their opinion as the only and actual truth is to deny their own bias and internal partiality. When posting something that could be debated it's advantageous to post a backup source (as I did in the oil embargo post) to at least lend some credibility to said post. When the response is personal speculation and conjecture with no sourcing, and representing "this is the really truth" then yeah, it's simply what they believe is the truth regardless of actuality.

 

[Chef Duane]

Perhaps. Another theory might be there more cars in urban areas competing for a limited supply of gas.

Yup. And when the supply of gas is further limited by say... an embargo by OPEC because they didn't like the US position on Israel... the supply is further limited creating long gas lines. The actual amount of crude being turned into gasoline wasn't limited, the amount that was being sent to the US was, thereby creating a gas shortage. And exacerbated by the relevant point you made.

 

[DonTom]

EV's effect the price of gas none, there aren't enough of them now, nor will there be in the near future and that's especially more so the case now. Outside the people with money and time to burn that other 80-90% of Americans aren't investing in a "pita" when there's zero incentive.

Perhaps has no effect on gas prices.

However:

"A study by the Department of Energy’s Argonne National Lab concludes that, over the course of a decade, privately owned PHEVs and EVs “saved about 690 million gallons of gasoline — about two days of consumption– and reduced CO2 emissions by 5.4 million metric tons.”

"In 2021, they saved almost two days’ worth of gasoline."


And that was four years ago. A lot more EVs today than then.

Info. from here.

-Don- Reno, NV

 

[old RV guy]

Perhaps has no effect on gas prices.

However:

"A study by the Department of Energy’s Argonne National Lab concludes that, over the course of a decade, privately owned PHEVs and EVs “saved about 690 million gallons of gasoline — about two days of consumption– and reduced CO2 emissions by 5.4 million metric tons.”

"In 2021, they saved almost two days’ worth of gasoline."


And that was four years ago. A lot more EVs today than then.

Info. from here.

-Don- Reno, NV

If EV’s cured cancer they’d still place zero downward pressure on gas prices.

 

[John From Detroit]

Well when demand drops.. The Oil Robber Barons simply lower production so as to inflate the price. Back in the 70s they found they could raise the price.> Blame it on the Saudi's (Who supplied like 2% of our oil) claiming we were not getting enough Even as tanker ships lined up to unload. and we would say Yes Sir Yes Sir 3 bags full and pair their inflated price....

Many quarters of Record profit have resulted from that discovery.

Which it one of the major reasons I really would like to do two things and will should the $$$$$$$ ever magically appear.

ONE go all Solar
Two Ditch the ICE in favor of EV.

 

[Quit RVing]

The revisionist history evident in the previous several posts is absolutely stunning.

 

[Chef Duane]

Back in the 70s they found they could raise the price.> Blame it on the Saudi's (Who supplied like 2% of our oil) claiming we were not getting enough

But the US Energy Information Administration (whoever they are) says this:

"In 1977, when the United States exported relatively small amounts of petroleum, OPEC nations were the source of 70% of U.S. total petroleum imports and the source of 85% of U.S. crude oil imports."

Oil imports and exports - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA)

U.S. crude oil imports sources including OPEC and Persian Gulf, and top five source countries of U.S. oil imports and destinations of U.S. crude oil exports.

www.eia.gov

Of course, the veracity of the USEIA figure is debatable but it was most likely more than 2%.

 

[DonTom]

If EV’s cured cancer they’d still place zero downward pressure on gas prices.

True. All it means is that we will be a lot less dependent on foreign oil and will make it more difficult for the oil companies to play games (even if it does involve governments).

If they sell less gas, it simply means all the oil companies reduce the production and keep the prices up.

-Don- Reno, NV

 

[DonTom]

If EV’s cured cancer

EVs probably do help reduce the cancer rate a bit compared to ICE.

-Don- Reno, NV