Feedback on Upcoming Motor Home Purchase

The friendliest place on the web for anyone with an RV or an interest in RVing!
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.

BinaryStar

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 2, 2014
Posts
45
Location
NE Ohio
Hi everyone, this will be a rather long post so I apologize up front. First off, I’ve been a forum member for few years now and I want to thank everyone for the enormous amount of knowledge I’ve acquired from this forum. I don’t post much except when I can offer some of that back, but I love to do repair, etc., myself whenever possible. I’ve been able to fix many things on my motor home (1990 24’ class C) that would not have been possible without the members of this forum and their posts.

I’m planning an early retirement at the end of next year, so I’ve started my search for a motor home to purchase in 2022 that will allow DW and I to visit areas we’ve never explored and spend more time out west at the NP’s that we have been blessed to visit. Soliciting feedback on specific topics, as well as help figuring out the things I may not have thought of. I realize some are subjective questions.

Background info/requirements:
  • Expect to travel around for 8 years or so - multiple longer distance/time trips per year, as well as local camping.
  • Class A motor home purchase, leaning toward gasser but open to diesel
  • Prefer to keep the length around 35’ but definitely under 40’ if possible
  • Will be towing my 2018 Jeep Wrangler JK four down (finally!)
  • DW wants a washer/dryer combo
  • 2000-2011 vintage, depending on fuel type
  • Available funds max out at $60,000 (cash purchase) plus a few grand for any initial surprise expenses.
  • Home base is NE Ohio

Questions:
  • I’m 61 and in decent health and I’m pretty handy in general with all RV systems. Is there regular maintenance on a diesel that can be done outside in the driveway?
  • What are the primary differences/pitfalls with diesel: is it largely expense of components, more complicated systems, difficultly accessing components, or something else?
  • My research seems to indicate that washer/dryer hookup is not common for gassers, and most are Workhorse chassis. I’m not necessarily opposed to a WH chassis but are there brands on gas chassis other than Winnebago/Itasco that have this? Is it possible to retrofit a cabinet space?
  • Looking primarily at private sellers but that limits units that I can look at within 250 miles. Is it easy enough to find an reasonably priced rig at a dealer that’s not crap? How far have others gone to look at RV’s?
  • Are there areas of the country that have more used RV’s available in general?
  • Not in a hurry but would like to find something before Fall, which potentially means buying while it's still Winter. Is a Winter purchase any more risky than at other times of the year?
  • Even if I use an RV inspector is there an advantage to getting a mechanic to inspect the chassis?
  • I’m looking at rigs up 50,000 miles for gassers. What chassis maintenance should be expected at that point? What about diesels, up to 80,000 miles?
  • What is the life expectancy for fiberglass roofs, and can they be coated if necessary?
  • Are there any concerns in general with buying an RV without a clear title, for example an outstanding loan?
If you’ve it made this far, I commend you! Please feel free to comment on individual items and offer any feedback, or ask questions that might help.

Best regards,
Jim R.
 
My 2000 Bounder 36S is on a Ford F53 chassis and has the Splendide combo washer/dryer. I've seen the factory brochure, and it was an option that year.
Bought the coach in '16 with 34,000 miles on it. It's got over 52,000 on it now and it's been a good one.
I did have an issue when I first bought it because the PO still had a loan on it. He didn't want to cash an IRA or whatever to pay it off, so we worked out a deal. I had half the price in cash. I gave him that, he gave me the coach and a bill of sale. Then we finalized the deal at the bank when he finally got the title. I know that wouldn't work for everyone, but we only lived 20 miles apart, and I knew him casually from him visiting my shop several times.
 
My research seems to indicate that washer/dryer hookup is not common for gassers, and most are Workhorse chassis. I’m not necessarily opposed to a WH chassis but are there brands on gas chassis other than Winnebago/Itasco that have this? Is it possible to retrofit a cabinet space?
My 2010 Bounder 33U was set up from the factory for washer/dryer, but we didn't add that -- just used the closet space. The Beaver (diesel) I had came with the stacked washer dryer, while our current Ventana was factory set up for them, but we had the dealer add them when we bought. And our Ventana is a 38 footer, with bath and a half -- still plenty roomy for us.

DW wants a washer/dryer combo
The stacked units we have are nicer, though a combo can work, but less convenient. Still there are many folks happy with them.

Since you've been reading posts here for years, you've probably come across many things about the advantages and disadvantages of diesel, but the more that long trips fit in your plans, the more advantage goes to diesel, both for comfort and for overall reliability, plus the maintenance intervals on diesels tend to be longer when it comes to distance ( vs time ), so the extra expense of a diesel isn't quite as "extra" in this case.

I’m looking at rigs up 50,000 miles for gassers. What chassis maintenance should be expected at that point? What about diesels, up to 80,000 miles?
I can't answer this completely, but do note that, although the diesel engine itself is longer lived, the accessories are not so much so (alternators, water pumps, etc. etc.).

Another factor is that, for a diesel, that budget dictates a bit older than for a gasser, but they're also a bit more strongly built than most gassers, and often with more amenities.

What are the primary differences/pitfalls with diesel: is it largely expense of components, more complicated systems, difficultly accessing components, or something else?
Expense of components is certainly a factor, and many systems are more complex (and there are often more systems too), but access difficulty will vary a lot even among gassers, but equally so among diesels, so that's more of an individual coach determination. Your lack of familiarity with diesel systems MAY be a factor -- or not, depending on your choices and your background.

I did find it took a lot of study of the manuals going from the Bounder to the Beaver, in order to get comfortable with the various systems, but once I got that comfort (a month or so) it was just as simple to drive and operate, in most respects, though the difference between a 34' gasser and a 45' diesel with tag axle took some careful attention at first -- not difficult, just required extra concentration and attention to detail, though most of that became automatic after a little while.

A factor to me (and to some other folks, but far from all) is that the hydronic heating systems (Aqua Hot, Oasis) are generally only available on diesels, and we'd hate to go back to a propane furnace and a propane water heater -- noise as well as convenience and performance.

Another big factor to me is that the lower center of gravity and the reduced (percentage) overhang behind the rear wheels gives a lot of extra stability in strong crosswinds, enabling me to retain normal highway speeds in certain wind situations that caused me to slow way down in the Bounder (it's not magic, though).

As in so many things, there are tradeoffs.
 
I’m not necessarily opposed to a WH chassis but are there brands on gas chassis other than Winnebago/Itasco that have this?
Workhorse was never the only class A chassis. Ford has been the dominate builder of them and in 2011 the Workhorse ceased to build class A chassis. I have known many owners of class A RVs that have washer/dryers. We were fulltime in a 36' Cruise Master for 12 years, owned it for 14 years and 81,000 miles with no engine or transmission repairs beyond manufacturer recommended maintenance.
Prefer to keep the length around 35’ but definitely under 40’ if possible
You won't find a gas class A of 40' but most are no more than 36'. The main thing to be aware of with any used motorhome is to check the weights to be sure you won't be overloading it.
Even if I use an RV inspector is there an advantage to getting a mechanic to inspect the chassis?
Unless you are an RV expert, it would be foolish to buy any motorhome of that age without a professional inspection. Some inspectors are qualified to do the chassis but if they are not you do need to have it checked by a qualified mechanic. One issue is that most companies that sell extended warranties for RVs do not sell on anything of 10 years or older, unless that has changed recently so the risk of major repairs will all be on you.
I’m looking at rigs up 50,000 miles for gassers. What chassis maintenance should be expected at that point? What about diesels, up to 80,000 miles?
You are setting your mileage limits for both way too low. A gas engine if well maintained should easily serve well for at least 150,000 miles and a diesel for 200 - 300,000.
What is the life expectancy for fiberglass roofs, and can they be coated if necessary?
The life expectancy for any RV roof varies widely on the way that they have been maintained. There are quality roof coating systems that can be applied to any RV roof.
Is it easy enough to find an reasonably priced rig at a dealer that’s not crap?
In the current RV market the definition of reasonably priced has changed dramatically. I suggest that you spend some serious time on RV Trader's website to see what the prices are. Used RV prices have risen a lot over the past 2 years.
Good luck! I suggest that you do a lot more study and come back with more questions as you learn. You may also find that the RV Consumer Group can help you a lot in your research.
 
Well you've certainly given yourself a good long timelilne for the search. I expect that the more specific your needs and wants the harder it will be to find "the one."

I personally would not get too wrapped up about diesel vs. gas although as someone said the paradigm is that apples to oranges the diesel might be more expensive for the same footage. For me tis would mean getting the "best shape" unit I can for the money. I also have a personal bias towards gas because I am most familiar with maintaining gas powered vehicles. but YMMV.

More important is gonna be floor plan and liveability. The washer dryer is a conundrum and for me it resolved to buying something with a "plan" on where I could fit the combo unit in and then doing it myself.

I lived in my RV for 11 months this year and pretty much stayed put at the park where a washer dryer was available. But next year is the year to hit the road and I plan to install the W/D combo in the vanity area. This will require lifting the vanity sink up so that the W/D fits underneath it.

In terms of dealers vs. private party I would not necessarily avoid dealers but I reckon that foot for foot a dealer is going to be more expensive. But if a dealer has what I want I am not gonna sweat a $5k difference if it means I get something I want and/or something better.

My personal prediction is that used RV prices may stabilize or come down a bit in certain cases. I think there were a lot of folks (not as many as the media made out) who bought an RV as a socially distant way to vacation in 2020/21 but they may not be committed RVers and may sell on. But that's a wild guess.
 
Is there regular maintenance on a diesel that can be done outside in the driveway?
Chassis-wise, in the driveway you can do oil & filter changes, fuel filters, air filter, chassis lube, etc. Generator service too.
What are the primary differences/pitfalls with diesel:
More & more expensive engine maintenance, plus air suspension maintenance
My research seems to indicate that washer/dryer hookup is not common for gassers, and most are Workhorse chassis. I’m not necessarily opposed to a WH chassis but are there brands on gas chassis other than Winnebago/Itasco that have this? Is it possible to retrofit a cabinet space?
Washers are less common in gassers for a variety of reasons and not really chassis related. The extra space needed and the extra cost are probably foremost among the reasons people typically don't order a washer/dryer with a gas coach.
.
All the major motorhome manufacturers offered the Workhorse chassis, i.e. Fleetwood, National RV, Newmar, Winnebago, and Tiffin.

Are there areas of the country that have more used RV’s available in general?
The snowbird regions, e.g. Florida, South Texas, & Arizona.

What is the life expectancy for fiberglass roofs, and can they be coated if necessary?
Roofs are worthy of an entire topic of its own.

The fiberglass itself lasts indefinitely. Leaks occur at seams and where things protrude thru the roof, i.e. caulked/sealed areas, so that's where roof maintenance comes into play. You could coat fiberglass skin with an elastomeric if it ever became necessary, but it probably won't. It is likely, though, that you will want to re-paint a fiberglass roof at some point.
TPO or PVC roofs also last a long time, e.g. 20+ years. Again, it's the openings and seams that need care, not the membrane.
 
Thank you Wally, Larry, Kirk, Marvin and Gary for the very helpful replies. I've seen many responses from you guys before and respect your views.

My 2000 Bounder 36S is on a Ford F53 chassis and has the Splendide combo washer/dryer. I've seen the factory brochure, and it was an option that year.
Good to know there's other makes that offered washer/dryers in some models, based on multiple replies. I've explained the limitations of the combo units and she's OK with that.

Since you've been reading posts here for years, you've probably come across many things about the advantages and disadvantages of diesel, but the more that long trips fit in your plans, the more advantage goes to diesel, both for comfort and for overall reliability, plus the maintenance intervals on diesels tend to be longer when it comes to distance ( vs time ), so the extra expense of a diesel isn't quite as "extra" in this case.
The long distance factor is something I need to consider. I won't be going to Alaska but will likely make at least several trips cross-country as well as down south. Kirk also mentioned watching weight limits and I'll be be hauling around a bunch of astronomy equipment when I go out west so that's a factor too.

Unless you are an RV expert, it would be foolish to buy any motorhome of that age without a professional inspection. Some inspectors are qualified to do the chassis but if they are not you do need to have it checked by a qualified mechanic.
I agree - that's the plan!

More important is gonna be floor plan and liveability. The washer dryer is a conundrum and for me it resolved to buying something with a "plan" on where I could fit the combo unit in and then doing it myself.
This is where my mind is as well. Plus I think I have the skills and tools to retrofit something if need be.

Chassis-wise, in the driveway you can do oil & filter changes, fuel filters, air filter, chassis lube, etc. Generator service too.
This is good news!

The fiberglass itself lasts indefinitely. Leaks occur at seams and where things protrude thru the roof, i.e. caulked/sealed areas, so that's where roof maintenance comes into play.
That's good info about the fiberglass. I'm very attentive to the sealing of the roof so that won't be a factor for me.

Marvin, I didn't snip your comment about pricing but I've been watching the market for a few months now to gauge prices in general, but much more closely the last month or two. I'm sure I'll still be on the wrong side of the COVID induced increases but I guess the bright side is I never really paid attention before this year. Maybe I'll catch a break!

I haven't really been looking much at diesels or diesel pricing before now. Part of the reason is I'm driving a pretty small RV now at 24' so there's some apprehension there but it's there for a 35' gasser too. One thing that's warming me up to the idea a little is I spoke to the service manager today at the truck service shop that I use for my RV. They've done a good job troubleshooting and fixing a few things that I could not and at reasonable rates. I knew they did a lot of gas motor home service/repairs, but I did not know they also service/repair diesel pushers in addition to the large commercial trucks both gas and diesel. It helps to know that regardless of what chassis I get I'll have the backup that I need for stuff that I can't do.

Here's a couple more questions.
1) Do air brakes and suspension have rubber components that age out and are they expensive?
2) How do you manage getting the RV checked over if the rig is a couple hundred miles away (or more)? I would go look at it and check all the systems I can, but what about the professional inspections?

Thanks again for the responses, this will help me get further along.

Jim R.
 
See, I look at it a lot different, owned 2 diesel pickups and routine maintenance was no more for a diesel than a gasser. A gas coach you will likely change oil and filters 2 to 3 times a year, whereas a diesel will be once a year. Fuel bill will be way higher for a gas motor. When we had a 25 foot MoHo 6-8 MPG was the norm. With my diesel pulling 14,000 fiver it was never less than 11MPG.
As for a washer. I would never have a RV without one. I'm not a fan of waisting 1 day out of 10 sitting in some crappy laundromat watching clothes spin. We camp hosted for a number of years, and our habit was start a load, eat breakfast, go to work. Come in for noon meal, take out clean dry clothes, start another load, eat lunch and go back to work. If you get a combo unit the key is to get a vented unit. Splendid makes them both vented and non vented. Non vented units use cold water across the condensate unit to semi dry clothes. It's a horrible system. The other key is never overload them. Once you learn how they work their pretty easy.
 
Diesels get better gas mileage than gassers but diesel gas is usually more expensive so it is a wash.
Diesels engine parts cost more but they last a lot longer so that is a wash.
Diesels cost more money to begin with but they hold their resale better so it is a wash.
 
We pretty much knew going in on the first rig that it was going to be our starter coach and that, if the full timing gig was going to last more than a few years, we’d be trading up. Since you already have a coach, I’m relating that part of our experience to you.

Our first coach was a 38’ gasser that was maxed out weight-wise. It had a vented combo w/d. We traded her on a 44+ foot DP with a stacked w/d.

Gas vs diesel:
The first coach was fine and served us well. We hired an Amish cabinet maker to do some remodeling and it was very worth it. We had to stay vigilant to keep our weight within a few hundred pounds of max.
The current coach is much more pleasant to drive due to engine noise and air suspension. We no longer worry about weight. Fuel mileage is a couple mpg better. It’s enough larger that no remodeling has been needed.
What Tom said about cost being a wash is right, imo. I think either gas or diesel can work for you, but I personally would go diesel.

Washer/ Drier
What Donn said is spot on. If combo unit, make sure it’s vented and don’t overload it. We probably averaged nearly a load per day and still used laundromats a couple of times a month (blankets and robes need a bigger machine). Absolutely love the difference of having separate stacked units… being able to wash one load while drying another is major time saver.

Private seller vs dealer
Being full timers, the idea of finding a rig to buy and coordinating that with finding a buyer for old rig and moving all our stuff was too overwhelming. The dealership experience and simply trading in the old coach was an easy decision for us. Probably not so much a concern if not full timing and if you have a place to store both rigs.
We had (imo) as good a dealership experience as possible at Lazy Days in Tampa. They have a huge selection and full hookup sites to stay in (old coach while shopping, new coach to make sure all is well before leaving—get everything fixed that needs fixing).
NE Ohio weather this time of year vs Tampa: Doubt you need advice on this. 😎
 
The diesel vs. gas thing for me is largely about RV size. Inch for inch diesel engines produce more torque and torque is a huge part of the equation when pulling heavy loads.

Above 32 feet or so class A I would seriously be looking at torque curves and start leaning to the diesel side. Not a dilemma for me personally as I could never imagine my wife and I in anything bigger than about 30 feet and in that range purchase price trumps powerplant on the decision tree for me.
 
While there's probably some good values out there, I would not adopt a workhorse chassis RV now. I have one and hindsight is 20/20. The newest WH is getting long in the tooth and as I discovered when fixing mine, chassis parts are becoming unobtainium. The number of shops that know anything about them and will fix them is diminishing rapidly. So unless you're comfortable with "self maintained" and "restoration" I think going forward with a gasser, the F53 will be easier to update, repair and maintain.

Mark B.
Albuquerque, NM
 
Diesel vs gas for a motorhome is a much broader discussion than the engine fuel. Diesel-pusher motorhome chassis are generally built to a higher technical standard, making them more capable and more comfortable. Some of the differences are simply because the diesel chassis is less price sensitive - buyers who are willing to pop for the pricey diesel engine are mostly willing to pay for additional features & capabilities.
  • A diesel engine produces lots of torque at very low rpms, thus delivering it's full power at an ideal range for accelerating heavy loads. The bigger & heavier the coach, the more the diesel torque advantage shines. For that reason, coaches with a GVWR in excess of about 24,000 lbs are near always diesel powered.
  • A diesel pusher chassis will have air suspension, giving a smoother ride as well as capacity for heavier loads. Air suspensions can also be raised or lowered as needed.
  • A diesel pusher chassis will typically have air brakes. Air brakes are less heat-sensitive and more reliable for heavier chassis (more GVWR).
  • A diesel powered chassis is typically built much stronger & more rigid than a gas chassis. A small part of that is to provide an adequate mount for the much heavier engine, but it's mostly to support a heavier and/or longer coach.
  • Rear engine diesels make the cab & passenger areas of the coach much more quiet than a front engine configuration.
As a practical matter, the existing gas-chassis designs & components run out of juice when the coach gets to 35 ft and 22,000 lbs of GVWR. Some models get stretched a bit to 38 ft and 24,000 lbs, but that's about the limit without serious engineering upgrades. Taking a gas chassis up to the next level would tend to require similar enhancements to those found in diesel pusher chassis and there would also be a demand for greater power than can easily be met with the available gas engines. It just makes sense to utilize diesel chassis designs to meet the needs of larger & heavier coaches.
 
Thank you everyone for the additional responses! This will allow me to frame, maybe even re-frame, my requirements. Thankfully my wife and I have plenty of time for research and planning on how to move forward.
 
Do air brakes and suspension have rubber components that age out and are they expensive?
There is extra maintenance for an air brake system as compared to the typical hydraulic brakes. Both have some rubber parts.
2) How do you manage getting the RV checked over if the rig is a couple hundred miles away (or more)? I would go look at it and check all the systems I can, but what about the professional inspections?
You will need to locate an RV inspector that is in the areas of the RV being considered. Many of them will travel but they also charge mileage if out of their usual location. If you do a Google search you can probably locate some in the area you are shopping.
Diesel-pusher motorhome chassis are generally built to a higher technical standard, making them more capable and more comfortable.
That is somewhat true, but isn't nearly as much so today as was once the case. It is true that the highest priced motorhomes are only found on diesel chassis but the mid quality/price coaches can be found on either chassis, up to about 36 - 38' in length.

My advice is that you need to shop all of them and see what appeals to you. If something in a gas coach works you will quickly see that with your budget you do not need to go nearly as old as with diesels. If you set the parameters on RV Trader you can do various searches to get a good feel for what fits your budget in either type of chassis. As much as I love the air ride, we lived quite nicely in gas motorhome without it and when after 12 years my wife's medical issues pushed us from the road we were able buy a house with the money we would have had to spend if we had bought a diesel.
 
Thanks for the additional feedback, Kirk. I think that's the tack we're going to take - look at a bunch of rigs inside and out to see what we like about the floor plans, size, pricing, etc., and not box ourselves in early on regarding fuel. I suspect we're going to have to look at quite a few frogs anyway, and maybe some nice rigs will get away but eventually we'll know when we see "the one" and will be ready to pounce.

I will say, after looking at the RV Consumer Group website I dang near just said "forget it" about class A's and how little protection they offer. But I guess I always knew that anyway so I'll just have to do my best not to smash it all up! :)
 
My advice is that you need to shop all of them and see what appeals to you. If something in a gas coach works you will quickly see that with your budget you do not need to go nearly as old as with diesels. If you set the parameters on RV Trader you can do various searches to get a good feel for what fits your budget in either type of chassis. As much as I love the air ride, we lived quite nicely in gas motorhome without it
Excellent advice!
 

Forum statistics

Threads
131,749
Posts
1,384,216
Members
137,520
Latest member
jeep3501
Back
Top Bottom