First Time Buyer

[brtrew]

I?m not a newbie to RVs but not far off.  We traveled a few times in a motorhome and a class-C.  And, I owned an older model trailer at a hunting site.  I have read a lot of good stuff on this forum and was hoping that I could get some ?real? input on a couple of travel trailers.  My wife and I are looking to buy a 28 ? 29 feet travel trailer for traveling.  Since this will be our first time at ?extended? RV travel, we want to do the research to pick a good unit for the value, a unit of good quality (less problems), but keep our expenses down in case we have to discontinue this adventure. 
We have reduced our list down to four units.  I tried to stay with major brands - thinking quality and service.  We picked 4 units ? the Keystone Passport 2520RL, the Forest River Grey Wolf 23MK, and the Hearthland Pioneer RL250 and the Hearthland Mallard M27.  My concerns are ?  (1) quality of the unit, (2) warranty ? they all seem to be about the same and the real issue there is sometime customer service, (3) any continous issues know with the brand, and (4) any issues with pulling the unit or maintaining it.  I will be towing the unit with a 2014 Silverado 1500, 5.3 liter engine, 3.42 real axle, 4 WD and the LTZ trim package. 
Also, are there any minor things that I should look for in any unit we buy.  Example, we liked this one unit, but I just happen to notice that the entry door was not under the awning. I guess that ok, unless it?s raining and the door is locked.
Any help would be appreciated.  Maybe I can help in the future...

 

[ChasA]

You're about to receive a visit telling you why can't use that truck for that size trailer.

 

[grashley]

ChasA  Congrats on your 500th post!!

brtrew,
All major brands make some GREAT quality campers and some real lemons.  Most are somewhere in between, and they are all the same model off the same assembly line.  Some of the "smaller" brands cost a bit more, but are generally considered better quality.  Thor and Forest River both own and produce MANY different popular brands, all very cost conscious pricing.

The MOST IMPORTANT FACTOR in the selection process is Floor Plan!!

Look used.  1.  Somebody else suffers the new depreciation.  2.  First owner gets to drag the TT back to the dealer for all those pesky first year warranty issues.  3.  You can get a much nicer TT for the same money.  4.  When you need to sell, you will not lose nearly as much $$ because you started with a used unit.  5.  Many gently used late model units are available.

If you are wanting a good quality unit for month (s) long trips, you will not be at all happy with a $12,000 new camper.  More expensive means better quality components.  While some things like stove, fridge, toilet, water heater, furnace, A/C, etc will be the same, more expensive units will have a more substantial frame to carry heavier components, like better insulated side walls, roofs and floors, thicker wood on the floors and roof, better quality cabinets and countertops, better quality fabrics on chairs and sofa, better quality floor covering, and so on.

I recently bought our used FW for $26K.  It sold new for over $72K.  It has the quality I wanted for a price I could afford.

Your truck:  Look for a yellow banner placard on the driver door latch post which will state the maximum weight of passengers and cargo shall not exceed XXXX pounds.  This is the PAYLOAD for YOUR truck as it left the factory.  The number is exactly what it says.

Add together the weight of all passengers you expect to carry, plus tools, firewood and other cargo carried in the truck.  Add 80# for a WD hitch.  Subtract this from your Payload.  This is the maximum hitch weight you can handle.  Assuming a 12.5% hitch weight, multiply the max hitch wt by 8 to get the max TT  GVWR you can handle.  Assuming a 10% hitch weight, multiply the max hitch wt by 10 to get the max TT  GVWR you can handle.

I will NOT tell you to get a bigger truck!  I will give you the tools to see how much camper your truck can safely handle.

 

[brtrew]

Great info..  But, I'm concern that there could be a towing problem.  My Chevy is a 2014 Silverado 1500, 5.3 liter engine, 3.47 real axle, LTZ (towing package). The dealer and manual states 9,500 lbs. maximum trailer weight. The units that we are looking at weigh less than 5,500 lbs.  Am I missing something?  I know that we have to be aware of what extra stuff goes into the truck and camper, but am I missing something?  Also, I was planning on getting a WDH regardless of what travel trailer we it.  Any good brand names to look at?

 

[SpencerPJ]

) )  What Grashley said  ) )

A whole lot more to the equation than what the Chevy manual says.

I recommend that you do LOTS of homework,  This Forum has many great threads to read and educate you.
http://www.rvforum.net/SMF_forum/index.php/board,7.0.html

 

[grashley]

Follow my suggestion above starting with "Your Truck"  It all starts with the yellow placard.  If the camper fits the weight criteria, you are good to go.  A 5,000# camper should be fine, but check the numbers!

Note we use camper GVWR weights here!  Nobody goes camping with an empty camper.

That 9500# number does NOT apply to your truck.  They make trucks that can pull a 9500# trailer, but your is not one of them!  That number applies to a base model, few options, max tow package, full gas tank and 2  150# passengers.  NO cargo.

 

[brtrew]

To Grashley - confused on the calculations.  My GVWR on the door post is 7200. I'm substracting 790 lb from the truck as cargo giving me a max hitch wt of 6410 lb.  I don't understand the part about "Assuming a 12.5% hitch weight, multiply the max hitch wt by 8 to get the max TT  GVWR you can handle."  Do you mean for the '8' to be 8% or '8'? And what is this answer telling me?

 

[kdbgoat]

There should also be another sticker on the door stating the max payload. Where are you getting the 790# cargo from? The GVWR is how much the truck can weigh when fully loaded. GCWR is the max total weight of the truck and trailer together. If you look in the glossary above, a lot of abbreviations are explained.

 

[brtrew]

The yellow sticker has the 'combine weight of occupants and cargo should never exceed' 1739 lbs.  The 790 lbs is the estimated weight of 2 passengers, tools, full tank of gas, luggage, coolers, and WDH hitch.  My GVWR is 7200 lbs.  My GCWR is 15,000 lbs.  The dry weight of trailers (looking a 3) is between 5,000 and 5,000.  It hard to estimate the additional load (food, clothes, misc. items) that would be added inside the trailer, but I think that I'm within my GCWR.  I have a printout of all the abbreviations (GCWR, GVWR, RGAWR, GVW, GTW,,,) and I admit it's still confusing.  I still don't understand the 12.% or the 8%.  Should I be multiplying by percentage or whole numbers?

 

[SarniaTricia]

brtrew:
I've just gone through the same instruction.....
I'm dealing with a much smaller rig....

First read the
http://www.rvforum.net/joomla/index.php/26-towing-and-towables
in the Library.... Once I wrapped my head around how to weight my rig... I got a better understanding of what was needed for a bumper pull trailer.... (5th wheel is a different)

I had to read a lot.... towing in this board, articles in websites that sell WDH and tow equipment and watch a lot of videos to wrap my head around it all... don't get frustrated or discouraged.... sometimes it is more how you ask the question and the information provided to make the comment make sense.
(eg even all that reading and when I asked my question I didn't provide enough trailer details to get an answer I understood fully... but I did get an action plan for acquiring more information)

 

[Gary RV_Wizard]

The yellow sticker has the 'combine weight of occupants and cargo should never exceed' 1739 lbs.  The 790 lbs is the estimated weight of 2 passengers, tools, full tank of gas, luggage, coolers, and WDH hitch.  My GVWR is 7200 lbs.  My GCWR is 15,000 lbs.  The dry weight of trailers (looking a 3) is between 5,000 and 5,000.

Good start. Now you have to consider the weight the trailer places on the hitch, what is called "tongue weight" of the trailer.  That will be roughly 10-12% of the actual trailer weight (more on this later).  If the loaded trailer weighed 7000 lbs, about 10% of that (700 lbs rests on the hitch and thus is carried by the truck (it is part of the truck's cargo).

It hard to estimate the additional load (food, clothes, misc. items) that would be added inside the trailer, but I think that I'm within my GCWR.

Yes indeed, and I can assure you it will be much more than you expect.  However, you don't need to estimate that at all. Assume the trailer will be loaded to the trailer GVWR and take 10% of that.  That way you know the max the truck may have to handle. Experience shows that sooner or later, your trailer will be loaded to near the trailer max.  Forget about the trailer dry or unloaded weight, that 5500 lbs you keep mentioning.    That's not a useful number and the one shown in the brochure or website is nearly always less than the actual weight of the trailer as it is delivered to the dealer lot. Often 200 or more lbs less. I won't go into detail as to why that is unless you ask further.

My GVWR is 7200 lbs.  My GCWR is 15,000 lbs.

Right. So IF your truck ws loaded to its max (the truck GVWR), the remaining weight it could tow is 15,000 - 7200  = 7800 lbs. NOT that 9200 lbs you saw in the brochure specs.  The available tow capacity goes down as the truck weight goes up.  Thus you need to estimate how much the truck will weigh when in use.  You add the expected cargo (passengers and gear) plus the trailer tongue weight to the trucks unloaded weight (usually called curb weight) to figure that out.


Don't worry about that 8x factor (not 8%) for now. Grashley was trying to give you a short cut "rule of thumb" for the max trailer weight your truck can handle based on the trailer tongue weight.  It apparently confused you, so just  put it out of your mind for now.  We can come back to it later if you need that sort of estimate.

 

[kdbgoat]

The yellow sticker has the 'combine weight of occupants and cargo should never exceed' 1739 lbs.  The 790 lbs is the estimated weight of 2 passengers, tools, full tank of gas, luggage, coolers, and WDH hitch.  My GVWR is 7200 lbs.  My GCWR is 15,000 lbs.  The dry weight of trailers (looking a 3) is between 5,000 and 5,000.  It hard to estimate the additional load (food, clothes, misc. items) that would be added inside the trailer, but I think that I'm within my GCWR.  I have a printout of all the abbreviations (GCWR, GVWR, RGAWR, GVW, GTW,,,) and I admit it's still confusing.  I still don't understand the 12.% or the 8%.  Should I be multiplying by percentage or whole numbers?

Now we're getting somewhere. Your payload according to the sticker is 1739#, subtract your 790# estimated payload weight from that. Leaves 949# for the tongue weight of the trailer. Assuming a 10% to 15% tongue weight of your loaded trailer, going by payload alone, you should be able to tow a trailer between 8066# to 9490#. Assuming your truck is loaded to the max, you only have 7800# until you hit your GCWR. Keep your trailer GVWR to 7500# or less, and you will be in good shape.

 

[kdbgoat]

Rereading what I posted, the trailer's GVWR should be kept to 6500#, not 7500#. You could tow 7500#, but if you don't maintain between 10% to 12% tongue weight you can potentially overload your truck. 13% tongue weight, you're technically overloaded.  Sorry for the error in my previous post.

 

[grashley]

The yellow sticker has the 'combine weight of occupants and cargo should never exceed' 1739 lbs.  The 790 lbs is the estimated weight of 2 passengers, tools, full tank of gas, luggage, coolers, and WDH hitch.  My GVWR is 7200 lbs.  My GCWR is 15,000 lbs.  The dry weight of trailers (looking a 3) is between 5,000 and 5,000.  It hard to estimate the additional load (food, clothes, misc. items) that would be added inside the trailer, but I think that I'm within my GCWR.  I have a printout of all the abbreviations (GCWR, GVWR, RGAWR, GVW, GTW,,,) and I admit it's still confusing.  I still don't understand the 12.% or the 8%.  Should I be multiplying by percentage or whole numbers?

Now we have the correct information!
Your max payload is 1739# and includes a full fuel tank.  So 1739 minus 790 plus 101 (est) wt of fuel  leaves 1050 payload.  Let's use 1000# as the math is easier.  A TT with a GVWR of 8,000# will place 1000# on the tongue, assuming 12.5% (8000 x .125)

The TT you are looking at will certainly fall in less than 8000 GVWR, so you pass that test.
Assuming the truck weighs in at 7200#, the trailer at 8000#, and 1000# tongue wt, then your GCWR is 7200  + 8000 - 1000 = 14,200, less than your GCWR.  Note tongue weight is included in both TT weight and truck weight, so subtract the duplicate.

Tongue wt. expressed as a percentage of actual trailer wt (8000/1000 X 100% = 12.5%)  MUST be more than 10% in order to have a pleasant towing experience.  Lower tongue was (less than 10%) often result in excessive sway and white knuckle trips.

GVWR is what the truck weighs on the scale with the trailer attached, but NOT on the scale.
GCWR is what the truck and trailer weigh with both on the scale.
Hope this helps.  This is essentially the same thing as the others have said.

 

[fastndubious]

Sounds funny but TEST the washroom. I mean the entire system. Sometimes it either gets blocked or even stuck in the pipes. Make sure you they are using quality products for your RV washroom.