Ford 7.3L gas towing performance?

[DonTom]

" I kinda wonder about fuel mileage?"

I don't think many engines were as bad as the V10 there. My larger, more powerful GM 7.4L averages around ten MPG (unless I drive too fast!) and I don't think the V10 can get even close to that in the same size motorhome from what I have heard here.

High RPMs as well as more cylinders usually wastes fuel with the same load.

-Don- Reno, NV

 

[Lou Schneider]

Ford's 460 had a reputation for being able to pass anything but a gas station. While trying to make the 460 meet stricter emission requirements, engineers discovered pistons over a certain diameter left a dead pool of unburned gas in their center which then passed through the engine unburnt, lowering MPGs and raising the hydrocarbon count.

The V-10 was developed to keep the bore below the critical diameter while still having enough displacement to develop the desired horsepower. Yes, it had to rev higher than the 460 to make horsepower and torque. But it didn't deliver worse gas mileage than the engine it replaced.

 

[DonTom]

While trying to make the 460 meet stricter emission requirements, engineers discovered pistons over a certain diameter left a dead pool of unburned gas in their center which then passed through the engine unburnt, lowering MPGs and raising the hydrocarbon count.

What did they do to solve that issue with the new 7.3L?

-Don- Reno, NV

 

[NSRV]

I went out of my way to avoid the V10 when I purchased my Y2K RV, which wasn't easy back in those days. The Ford V-10 was the most common engine used in RVs back then, by far.

A few people in this forum had the problem of the plugs spitting out in their rather new V-10s back then. I first read about it right here in this forum.

They later redesigned the heads and used more threads for the spark plugs. AFAIK, that fix worked, but I don't recall what year that was. So the problem was only with the early V-10s.

But I still didn't feel a Ford V-10 was a good engine to put in a heavy RV. Was rather inefficient, a bit small in CID, too many moving parts, ran at too many RPMs, etc. And I feel quite the opposite with my old GM 7.4L, I felt that was a good pick for my old RV. The perfect size and all. Doesn't need to spin fast to climb a hill and has all the power I could want.

But I think the new Ford 7.3L V8 will prove to be even better than my old GM 7.4L V8.

I wonder how the Ford 7.3L will compare to GM's 8.1L. I never compared the specs between them.

-Don- Reno, NV

Interesting enough, my '18 Jayco Redhawk (22j) has a V10 in it and I think it does rather well, tho I haven't driven it very far. I'd rather have something with a 6.7L diesel in it, but maybe one day. I felt the same as you about the performance of the V10 in a RV until I got one, I'm rather impressed. Not extremely impressed, but this V10 does haul its own. It does seem excessive that this engine is 10 cylinders and only makes 350 HP and 468 TQ. You'd expect more from something this big, in which I totally agree in that aspect.

All I know is the 7.3 out performed (both towing and fuel mileage) by a lot, as well as the Ram 6.4 at the Ike Gauntlet. I forgot about the GM 8.1, haven’t heard much about it. it seems I f the 8.1 was all that why did they feel they had to come out with the 6.6? Maybe differant applications? I kinda wonder about fuel mileage? Interesting question though.

I may be biased, but I wouldn't own anything modern that's made by GM. After working in the modern car industry, GM has fallen way short in a lot of areas, especially durability and quality. Back before the 2000s GM products were near bulletproof.

Chrysler, I hate 90% of their products, again I may just be biased from my experience with Chrysler in the auto repair field. They do make solid diesel trucks, thanks to Cummins.

Ford is probably the best modern American vehicle manufacturer currently, based on durability and quality. I was honestly surprised that the new 7.3L was a gas engine, but knowing Ford, it's definitely possible to be a beast. Fuel mileage will probably burn a hole in your wallet, and since its gasoline direct injection and turbo, it's likely to have efficiency and reliability problems as gasoline direct injection engines have to be religiously serviced (not just oil changes every 5K miles but also intake cleaners and injector cleaners need to be done every 10-15K miles.) to maintain efficiency and reliability. That's a little industry secret for you about gasoline direct injection, that isn't told to the consumer. A lot of people say stuff like that is a gimmick, and it can be if you're talking about a multi-port fuel injection system. Direct injection is a totally different ball game when it comes to maintenance and service.

 

[DonTom]

That's a little industry secret for you about gasoline direct injection, that isn't told to the consumer. A lot of people say stuff like that is a gimmick, and it can be if you're talking about a multi-port fuel injection system.

What is gimmicky about MPFI? It's got to be better than TBI.

-Don- Reno, NV

 

[NSRV]

What is gimmicky about MPFI? It's got to be better than TBI.

-Don- Reno, NV

Not the MPFI, the gimmicks of shops telling you to constantly run fuel injector cleaners and intake cleaners on a MPFI. (You know, when you go to the shop and they try to sell you additives and services.) On a MPFI and TBI you do have to do that stuff, but no where near as often as with GDI. Even then, a lot of fuel injector cleaners can cause more problems which is another gimmick of getting you to buy additives off the shelf by saying "Restores lost horse power", "Increases MPG" etc. I only use and recommend BG 44K or Lucas fuel treatment for fuel system cleaning on all my vehicles. Intake cleaners, SeaFoam is a good one, as well as BG Air Intake and Valve Cleaner. (You need a pressurized atomizer or a vacuum drip tube to do this intake cleaning service to your vehicle).

 

[Cameodon]

Just did a little quick research on the 8.1. Thespian is not at all impressive, something like 330 around 3500-4000 rpms. Torgue around 400 and something. Lots of articles on the mileage not that great…..maybe 15 max. Heck my 18 Ram 1500 had with the 5.7 Memi was 395 hp with a little over 400 torque with 19-20+ mpg highway.

 

[Cameodon]

Ford's 460 had a reputation for being able to pass anything but a gas station. While trying to make the 460 meet stricter emission requirements, engineers discovered pistons over a certain diameter left a dead pool of unburned gas in their center which then passed through the engine unburnt, lowering MPGs and raising the hydrocarbon count.

The V-10 was developed to keep the bore below the critical diameter while still having enough displacement to develop the desired horsepower. Yes, it had to rev higher than the 460 to make horsepower and torque. But it didn't deliver worse gas mileage than the engine it replaced.

Agreed. I had one class c with the 460 and two with the V-10. The V-10’s had noticable better power and better fuel mileage. About 1-1/2 mpg which is good when you’re in the 10 mpg category at best

 

[phil-t]

Here is a PDF with a fairly accurate description and time line of changes to the V-10.

 

[Old_Crow]

Reading thru, saw this...

In my professional experience, I've never experienced a Triton V10 spitting out spark plugs, but a 4.6L Ford V8, yes. I've done many spark plug hole repairs to those 4.6L engines. The 4.6L was the one with the poorly designed cylinder heads.

The only spark plug issue I've run into on a Triton engine was in the 5.4L V8 because the spark plugs are stupidly designed with really long idiotic electrodes and end up breaking the electrode off when you remove the spark plug, jamming the broken electrode end into the spark plug hole and requiring you to buy the special $400 removal tool from Snap-On and the repair kit. The Triton V10 has normal style spark plugs, and I've not heard of them spitting out spark plugs like the 4.6L's do. Interesting...

I'm here to tell you it happens. I changed out the plugs, coils and boots on my '00 Bounder because I had an intermittent misfire under load. Fixed that problem but in the first 1000 miles I had it spit out a plug. Had that one fixed and drove it another 2000 miles and had it spit a second one. The first one I had fixed at a Ford dealership and they charged me almost $800. The second one was fixed at a little shop in Las Cruses, NM. He charged me $250. I'm thinking of returning there in November when my summer gig is over and having him do the rest of them. Since every time it blows a plug it ruins the plug and the coil, I figure it won't cost as much to have them fixed before they blow out.

 

[NSRV]

I'm here to tell you it happens. I changed out the plugs, coils and boots on my '00 Bounder because I had an intermittent misfire under load. Fixed that problem but in the first 1000 miles I had it spit out a plug. Had that one fixed and drove it another 2000 miles and had it spit a second one. The first one I had fixed at a Ford dealership and they charged me almost $800. The second one was fixed at a little shop in Las Cruses, NM. He charged me $250. I'm thinking of returning there in November when my summer gig is over and having him do the rest of them. Since every time it blows a plug it ruins the plug and the coil, I figure it won't cost as much to have them fixed before they blow out.

$250ish is about what my old shop in AZ used to charge for those repairs on the 4.6's. I've never seen it myself on the V10, but I believe it.

That's actually a pretty smart idea to have them repaired before they blow out. The repair is fairly simple. The Ford dealer probably cost so much because they put in a new Motorcraft coil and plug, and they probably had outrageous labor rates too.

 

[phil-t]

Sparkplug issues are pre 2005 in the V10 engines. Plenty of those still in service I'd bet. I would think most shoppers today are looking for units 10 years or less old.

 

[DonTom]

Not the MPFI, the gimmicks of shops telling you to constantly run fuel injector cleaners and intake cleaners on a MPFI. (You know, when you go to the shop and they try to sell you additives and services.) On a MPFI and TBI you do have to do that stuff, but no where near as often as with GDI. Even then, a lot of fuel injector cleaners can cause more problems which is another gimmick of getting you to buy additives off the shelf by saying "Restores lost horse power", "Increases MPG" etc. I only use and recommend BG 44K or Lucas fuel treatment for fuel system cleaning on all my vehicles. Intake cleaners, SeaFoam is a good one, as well as BG Air Intake and Valve Cleaner. (You need a pressurized atomizer or a vacuum drip tube to do this intake cleaning service to your vehicle).

I have never used a fuel additive in my life in any vehicle.

I got in the habit of not using any additives when I read the warranty info. on my 1971 BMW motorcycle back in 1971. It used very strong wording about using ANY additives in the gas and oil no matter what is claimed by those who make the stuff. And went on to say it could void the warranties and such.

While engines have changed a lot since then, I have yet to find a reason to use a gasoline additive in any of the countless vehicles I have owned, some for more than 350K miles.

So I do not agree with "On a MPFI and TBI you do have to do that stuff".

And FWIW, I have yet to have a bad injector in any of my vehicles.

-Don- Reno, NV

 

[NSRV]

I have never used a fuel additive in my life in any vehicle.

I got in the habit of not using any additives when I read the warranty info. on my 1971 BMW motorcycle back in 1971. It used very strong wording about using ANY additives in the gas and oil no matter what is claimed by those who make the stuff. And went on to say it could void the warranties and such.

While engines have changed a lot since then, I have yet to find a reason to use a gasoline additive in any of the countless vehicles I have owned, some for more than 350K miles.

So I do not agree with "On a MPFI and TBI you do have to do that stuff".

And FWIW, I have yet to have a bad injector in any of my vehicles.

-Don- Reno, NV

BMW is a special case when it comes to everything, literally everything. Nothing is "normal" with them. Same goes for the other Euro cars. They're just different from the rest of the vehicles out there, and a lot of techs hate dealing with them because of that.

I am the type of automotive tech that doesn't swear by additives and I'll tell my customers "you'll be fine if you never use any cleaners or additives on your engine, as long as you maintain it properly." The only time I'll recommend to a customer to use a certain cleaning service, or a fuel or oil additive is when there is a problem that could be remedied by one of those. (For example, clogged injectors, excessive carbon from lack of maintenance, sludge etc.)

Since you and I are discussing gimmicks, auto manufacturers have been lying to the consumer for decades, to avoid government backlash for emission regulations and of course the infamous Corporate Average Fuel Economy (CAFE) standards (Google it if you don't know). Manufacturers don't publish all the required maintenance for a vehicle. They extend or remove service intervals to "cut corners" to meet CAFE standards. (Especially for the GDI engines) An example of this is oil change intervals. Modern vehicle manufacturers are telling consumers to change their oil every 10-15K miles. Oil companies are also telling their consumers this same line of BS. Some say, change the filter 10K miles and top off, then change the oil after another 10K miles. This is absolute BS, and they only say this because the CAFE and government emission standards have become so unrealistic they are forced to do so, otherwise they wouldn't be able to legally sell their products in the USA. (Change your oil and filter every 3-5K miles regardless of what oil you use!)

I could go on and on about this. Some Automotive institutions have seminars about this and if any of you happen to find one, I highly suggest you attend one. It is a very eye opening and informational experience.

 

[DonTom]

This is absolute BS

I discovered many years ago, the entire world runs on BS. Mostly green BS.

But I try to look at the bright side. It is the one resource we will never run out of. It is everywhere.

-Don- Reno, NV

 

[NSRV]

I discovered many years ago, the entire world runs on BS. Mostly green BS.

But I try to look at the bright side. It is the one resource we will never run out of. It is everywhere.

-Don- Reno, NV

TRUTH

 

[Cameodon]

Oil companies are also telling their consumers this same line of BS. Some say, change the filter 10K miles and top off, then change the oil after another 10K miles. This is absolute BS,

I agree with the BS part. I mean you can buy pretty damn good oil for $5 a qt. If you can’t afford to buy the $30-&50 worth of oil every 7-10,000 miles…you can’t afford the vehicle to put it in.

 

[DonTom]

afford to buy the $30-&50 worth of oil every 7-10,000 miles…

IMO, it's almost never the money. It's the hassle involved.

I always do my own oil & filter changes in my Y2K RV.

And if it did cost three times as much for me to get the job done than taking it in to somebody to do it for me, I would still do the oil changes myself. Less hassle, IMO. Also less mistakes. The last time I had an oil change place change the oil in one of my cars, the oil filter fell off to the road while driving in the middle of nowhere (near Brooks, CA on Hwy 16) , just a day later. I have other stories about oil change places, but that was the very last time I used such a place (around 20 years ago).

-Don- Reno, NV

 

[Memtb]

You are correct, tho have you experienced this yourself or have you only heard of it? Not saying it doesn't happen, for some reason certain Ford engines just like to eject their spark plugs lol

It is a well documented problem with the first few years of the V-10. In fact, though not my personal experience, my brother had it happen in his motorhome while on a trip to visit me. Yes, second hand information, but pretty darn close to first hand. As an addendum.....my brother is a pretty fair mechanic and has built many hot rods since the mid-70’s! memtb

 

[Utclmjmpr]

One thing is a certainty,, diesels remove the spitting plugs problem..>>>Dan