They probably meant juvenile delinquent snakes.
Garter snakes in AK?
- Thread starter DonTom
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My grandkids are skeptical when I tell them King Kong and Godzilla are true stories and that I know for a fact King Kong can whip Godzilla ( I've seen it, it was in Japan) even when he falls on high voltage power lines and gets stonger. King Kong can walk underwater too, he walked all the way to America from Japan once.
Tulecreeper
Well-known member
That part about juvenile snakes I've heard before. Supposedly because they are not mature enough to control the amount of venom they inject so they just shoot their whole load at once...so to speak.
When I was young, I heard the mongoose/snake thing but I never paid it any mind until I actually got stationed in Hawaii. I then found out the truth about the rats. By the way, mongoose are like ground squirrels. They're everywhere and you regularly see them ironed out on the side of the road. Because just like squirrels, the road of life is paved with mongoose that couldn't make a decision.
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DonTom
Well-known member
That part is probably true, (but is still debated), but still no comparison to the danger of larger snakes.
The main purpose of snake venom is NOT for defense, but for feeding. Notice none of the venomous snakes are constrictors. The venom works better because most venomous snakes strike prey and then let go. After the venom stops all movement in the prey, the snake finds it and then eats it. This prevents the snake from getting bit by a large gopher or whatever.
The theory is that younger snakes do not know to not waste their venom. With large venomous snakes, even "dry bites" are very common.
So that is what the nonsense is based on, that it is more likely to get a higher percentage of venom out of a very young snake. Nevertheless, the danger does not even compare, even with the many dry bites of the larger snakes.
-Don- Georgetown, CA
1stimerver
Well-known member
No sidewinders in NJ !!! 
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DonTom
Well-known member
But you have Copperheads & Timber Rattlesnakes.
Sidewinders prefer sandy desert.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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Ray-IN
Well-known member
I have North American racers on my place, (blue racers for us old folks). The small ones are black with green speckles and green belly. The adults are all black.
Anyway, they assume a defensive posture when approached. They are non-poisionous, but wiggle their tail as if mimicking a rattlesnake. In the fall they wiggle their tail in dry leaves and sound like a rattlesnake.
I found a baby one in my RV garage about 1' long. It did the same as the adult I surprised when I approached it.
I caught it in a glass quart jar my holding the jar close in front of it. When it made a strike at my hand it went into the jar and I promptly fastened the lid.
After I'd made a positive ID I released it up the valley at my barn.
Racers are excellent mouse and spider eaters. My RV garage had a lot of mice 4 years ago, now there are no signs of mice.
Anyway, they assume a defensive posture when approached. They are non-poisionous, but wiggle their tail as if mimicking a rattlesnake. In the fall they wiggle their tail in dry leaves and sound like a rattlesnake.
I found a baby one in my RV garage about 1' long. It did the same as the adult I surprised when I approached it.
I caught it in a glass quart jar my holding the jar close in front of it. When it made a strike at my hand it went into the jar and I promptly fastened the lid.
After I'd made a positive ID I released it up the valley at my barn.
Racers are excellent mouse and spider eaters. My RV garage had a lot of mice 4 years ago, now there are no signs of mice.
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DonTom
Well-known member
I wish the quality of that photo was better as it doesn't look like any of the racers. The problem is I cannot tell what it is by that photo.
But maybe I could figure it out if I knew which state that photo was taken in.
It looks like it has bands, which no racers have at any age. But many of them look totally different as they age, such as the Western Yellow-Bellied Racer of this area.
Young Western Racer (looks almost like a gopher snake but has smooth scales):
Adult Western Racer of the exact same subspecies ( Coluber constrictor mormon) below.
Despite to Latin name, they are neither constrictors nor Mormon:
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As do horses with no name.
1stimerver
Well-known member
Have encountered both while hiking the Appalachian trail Rattler was going away from us as fast as he could and the Copperhead just sat there in the leaf clutter looking at us without moving. I am very happy to say that neither of them wanted anything to do with us!!
Spotted a black racer in the NJ pines that had to be at least 3 ft long, that just took off when he spotted us. It was a handsome sleek snake and sun reflecting off of his black scales looked iridescent blue!!
I've seen a pine snake rattle its tail in the leaves but never saw any other snake do that..
Came across some water moccasins in Ga and La and they weren't so shy. While fishing in a canal in La, the darn moccasin was about 3 feet up in a bush along the bank. Almost didn't notice him, while retrieving a near by stuck lure. Startled the heck out of me when my buddy spotted him and warned me!!!
We backed off and he just slithered off into the water.
They are fascinating creatures, but do need to be respected, rather than feared.
Safe travels and all the best.
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DonTom
Well-known member
Many snakes do that, even some king snakes.
But IMO, the snakes that are the best at it are the bull snakes genus (Pituophis) which includes the pine & gopher snake. They can sound much like a rattlesnake.
-Don- Auburn, CA
Tulecreeper
Well-known member
Here is a photo of an immature Blue Racer from Monroe County, Ill - it does have bands. I had to search for it as it doesn't seem to be a universal thing.
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DonTom
Well-known member
Nope. It has what is usually called "blotches" among herpetologists.
"Bands" are much like partial rings. Such as on a Scarlet Snake. They do not continue on the belly.
A "ring" has to encircle the body like in kingsnakes (even if the color changes on the belly).
"Stripes" are the lines like on a garter snake.
-Don- Auburn, CA
Ray-IN
Well-known member
Don that snake and its relatives are in Greene county IN. That is an infant snake, the adults are solid black. They are also very fast. When I saw it, it was on the concrete floor of my RV garage. It couldn't get traction going straight, so reverted to the sidewinder motion until it reached my crushed stone driveway. Then it straightened out and zoomed away. When it felt my footsteps behind him, it turned and went into that defensive posture again.
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DonTom
Well-known member
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DonTom
Well-known member
Your young racer snakes there look much like any of the other young racer snake (Coluber)in the USA.
Young Eastern Racer:
That is why I did not think your photo looked like such.
But one possibility is that it is such in-between to two color variations. But I still don't think so from what I could tell by your photo.
It looked more like a rat snake from what I could tell, but I cannot be sure from that photo.
-Don- Auburn, CA
Ray-IN
Well-known member
This: Eastern Racer Facts, Description, Diet, and Pictures MIne was black with green dots on the top and sides, green underbelly.
I showed that picture to DNR and the man said it was a juvenile racer.
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DonTom
Well-known member
Okay, it just that it seemed to me that your photo here:
looked more like a young one of these:
-Don- Auburn, CA
Chef Duane
Well-known member
I once saw a 2 headed snake at the LA Zoo.
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DonTom
Well-known member
The Trans-Peacos Copperhead.
And that photo is making the snake in this photo hungry:
-Don- Auburn, CA
