How to Determine Which 1995 Damon Challenger Model a Non-RV Dealer is Selling

jim_manley said:
The NADA Guide lists a bunch of 32/32.5-foot Chevy chassis-based Challenger models for 1995, including M-313-Chevrolet, M-313-MTL-Chevrolet, M-315-Chevrolet, M-315-MTL-Chevrolet, M-3130-Chevrolet, M-3130-MTL-Chevrolet, M-3150-Chevrolet, and M-3150-MTL-Chevrolet.  How do I tell which is the one that I'm looking at?

Does it really matter?

If you can't find the model number next to the front door grab handle, or somewhere in the paperwork, you'll have to make a guess based on the floorplan.

The straight wall continuing from the sink and stove to the toilet compartment, along with the shower being on the left side of the shower, indicate this is the 315 floorplan.  That eliminates all of the 313 and 3130 options.  The 313 floorplan has the bathroom wall departing at an angle from the kitchen counter, and the bathroom sink is on the right side of the shower.

 
Lou Schneider said:
Does it really matter?

If you can't find the model number next to the front door grab handle, or somewhere in the paperwork, you'll have to make a guess based on the floorplan.

The straight wall continuing from the sink and stove to the toilet compartment, along with the shower being on the left side of the shower, indicate this is the 315 floorplan.  That eliminates all of the 313 and 3130 options.  The 313 floorplan has the bathroom wall departing at an angle from the kitchen counter, and the bathroom sink is on the right side of the shower.

Hi Lou,

I really appreciate that info.  I've got a lot on my plate just trying to teach six sections of STEM classes, leading after-school robotics, astronomy, and other clubs, and getting ready for a Summer full of two university research programs (precious metal predictive extraction geology, and augmented reality for extremely rural highway safety).

The NADA website loads extremely slowly where I am (Beyond the Land That Time Forgot), so, it takes too long to visit every permutation of the models in order to determine what the low and average prices are for my Zip code (59043).  I can't tell whether there are significant differences in prices between the model variants, let alone how much the differences may be.  People who don't suffer from The Digital Divide have no idea that it is real Out Here, and it's about to get worse, much worse.  5G will be rolling out "nationwide" starting in January 2020 and, as a result, the FCC is allowing the carriers to shut down 3G because it's not convenient to continue serving rural markets (pretty much everywhere more than half-a-dozen miles from an Interstate highway or a metropolitan area).  We just got 3G in our area last year and there's no plan to ever field 4G LTE, let alone 5G.

Our only choice for wired Internet is DSL using the early DSLAMMs that can only manage to eek out a few Mbps.  Satellite Internet (e.g., HughesNet) isn't economically viable or technically adequate due to our high latitude, and obscuration of satellites due to terrain and forest cover.  Even worse, we have limited choices in where to live and build homes with even minimally-favorable geometries because so much of the land is federal or tribal.  The scenery does make up for some of that (there are almost millions of channels of garbage, these days), but, it does make it hard for those of us trying to bring STEM educational opportunities to kids who would otherwise never have a chance to even become aware of it.  We are getting to the point where, even nationwide,the U.S. is going to be millions of technicians short of what will be needed as the Boomers continue retiring in increasing numbers, let alone the growing gap in scientists and engineers.

By next year, we're going to be a million bodies short of the people just with computer science degrees needed to keep up with demand, in large part because of the essentially empty STEM pipeline coming out of the K - 12 educational debacle.  Nearly half of the population is in our boat, so, that means that about half of the future geniuses are Out Here, but, they'll never have a chance to benefit the other half of the country, as well as themselves and their communities.  We don't want much, but a bit of understanding and compassion would go a long way.  The kids, and increasingly, adults, in the metro areas have no idea that the red and white meat in the shiny plastic covered packages come from Bessie the Cow, Clucky the Chicken, and Porky the Pig ... that are grown and fed from the massive fields of vegetation Out Here.

What does this have to do with RVs?  There's no way most people Out Here will ever be able to afford even the $10K - $15K rolling museums that I'm considering buying, let alone the five-figure funhouses that the RV industry primarily builds these days.  That lack of STEM educational opportunities translates directly into a dearth of well-paying career opportunities that will allow today's kids to become future RVers, not to mention able to troubleshoot and maintain their vehicles.  Just look at the demographics of this forum and, like many Boomer avocational pursuits (model railroading is one of my passions suffering a similar decline), it's graying and dying.  We all need to do everything we can to reverse this trend, and sniping at those of us who have bitten the bullet to come Out Here to assist the Other Half to get up on the STEM step isn't helpful.

Thanks for your valuable help and consideration, and All the Best,
Jim
 
The NADA RV Guide pricing is largely irrelevant on a 25 year old RV.  It's only estimated depreciation and not based on any actual sales data.  An older coach in excellent condition might easily command a price 2x what the online freebie NADA RV Guide shows.
 
Gary RV_Wizard said:
The NADA RV Guide pricing is largely irrelevant on a 25 year old RV.  It's only estimated depreciation and not based on any actual sales data.  An older coach in excellent condition might easily command a price 2x what the online freebie NADA RV Guide shows.

You would think that an organization with "Dealer" in its name would publish data from dealers.  Sounds like Nielsen Media "Research" that governs where over $100,000,000,000 of TV advertising money is spent each year based on viewership.  Everyone in the industry knows it's crap data, as there are only about 15,000 carefully-selected Nielsen "Households" of which only 1,500 are selected to provide data on any given day/night for their Overnight Ratings.

However, Nielsen spends about $200,000,000 a year on auditors and lawyers who produce statistics that "prove" their data is the God's-honest truth.  Nielsen doesn't continuously track shows with less than a million viewers (so, only a few cable/satellite shows are tracked over all episodes and seasons), resulting in "surprises" such as the Original Flavor "Star Trek" being canceled producing howls of protest everywhere.

The cancellation was despite so many people loving it, regardless of its cheesy-schlock sets, overacting, and creepy, unemotional Mr. Spock (most of the time, when he's not snorting hallucinogenic pollen).  We all know many untracked popular-enough hits with die-hard fans on also-ran networks such as SyFy, TLC, DIY, etc.  Some have even kept going with fan crowdfunding via sites like Kickstarter and IndieGoGo.  Mystery Science Theater 3000 is allegedly coming back with Joel Hodgson returning in the lead nerd role, by popular demand.

Anywaaaay, at some point, these relic RVs will become collectors items, right?  This "investment" will pay off handsomely, then - LOL!!!  That's my story and I'm stickin' to it ... I may need some sworn testimony from expert witnesses here if (inevitably when?) there's a terminal domestic dispute, though.

Judge:  "And when did things seem to start going downhill in your marriage, Ma'am?"

Mrs.:  "The day he bought that stupid old motorhome, Your Honor!"

Judge:  "Why did you buy that god-awful, infestation-ridden, money pit, sir?"

Mr.:  "It seemed like a good idea at the time, Your Honor.  Besides, there's this great RVForum.net site of which Mr. X. Bert Witness and I are members, and he can tell you that these ancient RV artifacts are going to be worth Big Money, someday!"

Judge:  "Is this true, Mr. Witness?"

Bert:  "I have no idea what he's talking about, Your Honor.  To tell you the truth, I'm here more for the entertainment value ... "

With friends like that ...  ::)
 
SeilerBird said:
I want some of what Jim is smokin. :eek:

This is what happens when you don't have a wreck in your possession ... yet ... once I plunk down the samolians, you won't ever hear a peep from me again because I'll either be (1) happily driving from beautiful campground to campground all Summer and livin' the life, (b) spending every waking moment under, on top of, and inside everything with a moving/electrical/squishy component, trying to fix something with the wrong screwdriver/wrench/pliers/hacksaw, or (Γ) dead, having been rolled over by The Beast due to failure to set wheel chocks while trusting 24 year-old brakes, electrocuted while trusting that 24 year-old electrical insulation still has some dielectric properties, fallen 11 feet, 6 inches onto my head after standing back to admire my work on the roof and snapping my spinal cord at the C1 vertebra with no one around, etc.

Just foolin', I'll be here (α) extolling the virtues of some amazing scenic wonderland that I'm currently visiting, (2) cursing the idiotic idea that it would somehow be different for me, and everything would just work peachy forever, without any effort, or (c) asking even more ridiculous questions with obvious answers readily available if I would just look in the frickin' Resources section, click on the Search link to find the six million times the same question was asked and answered, or finally succumb to learning how to use a search engine on those new-fangled Intertubes, where information is moved in tiny dump trucks through pipes connected to every building on the planet (to paraphrase the late Senator Williams from Alaska).
 
You would think that an organization with "Dealer" in its name would publish data from dealers.
There simply isn't any system for collecting sales data from Rv dealers. The RVDA ain't the National Auto Dealers Association!  Nor is there a system of regional RV auctions to capture wholesale pricing.  Forget anything you thought you knew about how dealerships work or prices get set. Selling RVs is more like a Turkish rug bazaar than any automobile dealership.  ;D
 
SeilerBird said:
I want some of what Jim is smokin. :eek:

You and me both.  At least I'm in California this year, where I can go down to the corner store and stock up if I need to.

Jim, sometime I want to sit around a campfire with you and discuss the virtues of a nice IPA or Pale Ale.  I hope your good humor last through the trials and tribulations to come. 
Oh, and never by means tell your wife that you've got everything on the coach working as advertised...that's a sure way to jinx yourself.
 
Gary RV_Wizard said:
There simply isn't any system for collecting sales data from Rv dealers. The RVDA ain't the National Auto Dealers Association!  Nor is there a system of regional RV auctions to capture wholesale pricing.  Forget anything you thought you knew about how dealerships work or prices get set. Selling RVs is more like a Turkish rug bazaar than any automobile dealership.  ;D

Ah, my good fortune, then!  I've been to both Turkey and rug bazaars there, so, I'm all set!

I have been quite amused by the wide variance of prices for new RVs as I considered various TTs, and found one I liked that ranged from about $13,000 to $19,000 nationwide for the exact same model with identical features.  The ones further West were more expensive because of the shipping (normally from a factory in Indiana, naturally), but, there were some closer to the bottom of the price spectrum Out Here (even in major cities), and others virtually next door to where they were built that were some of the most expensive.

Some dealers take the Manufacturers Suggested Retail Price very literally, as in Suggested and therefore negotiable, and others you'd think it was handed down from God, never to be sullied by the forces of the free market via supply and demand.  I had one guy stick a $399 doc fee on the invoice after I had stated that I was going to pay cash, and when I asked about it, he said, "Oh, well, everyone in the business charges that."  I told him that I wasn't everyone and asked to see the process that was going to require $399 worth of labor, and he couldn't show me, of course, other than sitting at his desk and staring at the walls, I suspect.

I told him it would only cost me a few hundred dollars in fuel to drive to where that model was available for the lowest price and return home with it (sleeping in rest areas outbound and using it on the leisurely return trip), and that the Internet had changed what people knew about prices, availability, fees, processes, etc.  It was simply a matter of convenience that I had contacted his dealership, but, I didn't actually need convenience.  Surprise, surprise, he magically sent another invoice and both it and another fee I had asked about had disappeared, along with some of the price.  It might not be astonishing to find out that I've never, ever, paid anywhere near the "customary" 6% real estate commission for a property, or any of the garbage fees, either.
 
Old_Crow said:
You and me both.  At least I'm in California this year, where I can go down to the corner store and stock up if I need to.

Jim, sometime I want to sit around a campfire with you and discuss the virtues of a nice IPA or Pale Ale.  I hope your good humor last through the trials and tribulations to come. 
Oh, and never by means tell your wife that you've got everything on the coach working as advertised...that's a sure way to jinx yourself.

Hi Wally,

I was run out of California under the threat of having to live in a tent on the sidewalk outside Nancy's place because I was just too weird.  Even folks living at the intersection of Haight and Ashbury were becoming alarmed that I might put them out of business.

I've suffered from low blood pressure all of my life, but, it sure beats the alternative at the opposite end of the sphygnomanometer scale.  So, anything that further relaxes me will cause me to fall face-first into said campfire.  When I was recovering in an ICU after coronary stents were implanted, my breathing and heart rate kept falling below the lowest levels to which alarms could be set.  The exasperated nurses finally blurted out, "Will you breathe faster and move your arms or something to keep the alarms from going off every two minutes???"  I can otherwise do very well spinning yarns with a fine root beer clutched in my paw.  Besides, can you imagine my brain being any more "stimulated" via Better Living Through Chemistry than it already is???

As for me ever getting anywhere near being done with what's on the HoneyDo list, my wife is a nurse and I'm an engineer, so, we both agree on at least one thing: Murphy was a Rank Amateur Optimist.  She's discovered this app called AnyList - do not allow your wife or Significant Other to become aware of this Spawn of the Devil!  I've got things to do all the way into the future until I'm stepping down into my grave!

With respect to maintaining my sense of humor:

If it weren't for bad luck,
I'd have no luck at all ...
Gloom, despair, and agony on me ...
 
So, we just got back from Billings around 7 PM MT, Friday, after an extravehicular activity of a duration of about 11 hours, including three hours in transit, an hour-and-a-half on-site, and the remainder celebrating with linner/lupper at Golden Corral (but, the ribs special didn't start until 4 PM ... grrrRRR!!!), gathering vittles and dry goods in the Mart of Wal (including perusing the RV, auto, and camping aisles), acquiring fuel, and visiting the KOA where we will be spending most of June with whatever we wind up buying.

OK, so, it's a July, 1995, vintage Damon Challenger 315 (on a chassis completed in March, 1995) as verified by an additional stamped metal foil label below the vehicle info label that contains the VIN, etc.  315 was also painted in black to the left of the door in about 3/4-inch numerals.  It's definitely coming up on 24 years old, but, it's in very reasonable shape, all things considered.  It started right up after sitting since August, 2018, reflecting a new chassis battery as of about a year ago.  The front tires are new as of then also, and the rear dualies are gently used, with all six tires having manufacturing dates less than two years ago.

The engine is in the front, which I wasn't expecting because there were no photos posted showing the access hump between the front chairs.  I'd downloaded and been looking at what must have been a (red) P30 chassis manual for diesel pushers.  The documents package includes a green P30 chassis manual with the equivalent info for the fuel-injected 454 Chevy engine, transmission, and rearward drive train.

I couldn't get under the MH because it's parked on a grass field that's a bit marshy, being downslope of what, until recently, was frosty white snow-covered sandstone cliffs and hills.  It will be moved next week to his vehicle sales site in downtown Billings, and it will be made available to an RV mechanic in an appropriately-equipped garage.  I was able to verify the integrity of all of the electrical and electronic circuits, including those associated with the engine and environmental components.

After the instantaneous start, the engine purred like a well-oiled kitten (with very large paws, body and mouth full of very large, sharp teeth).  I exercised all of the controls that could be when not moving, and the rest will be checked when the mechanic does his thing.  I was able to run the cab and front roof air conditioner, but, the rear A/C unit can only be run from the generator (or shore power?), so, that will be tested when the mechanic gets hold of it.  Likewise, I couldn't test the city water plumbing due to the remote location, but, the owner did fire up the fresh water pump and demonstrate successful full flow to the sinks and shower from the fresh water tank.  There was no odor from the gray or black water tanks, which had been fully flushed (and apparently, no poo pyramid!).  The gray/black water tanks drain hose and adapter were there and in excellent condition (probably replaced a few years ago).

The roof is in outstanding condition, with no visible cracks in the rubber anywhere - I could barely tell where the seams are across the roof where the underlying plywood sheets are butted together.  The edge sealant is fully integral, although it's clear that it's been redone at least once, and will bear checking annually to ensure continued viability.  A water spray test will be done to ensure that highway-speed rain can't penetrate anywhere coming from the front.  The vent has a weather shield large enough to allow the pivoting vent to open completely, although there's no fan in the vent, which seemed odd.  I didn't see any wiring that could power a fan, but, I didn't get a chance to look closely to see if wires are tucked away in the vent frame.

The appliances all work (that could be powered by a battery and AC inverter), except that the Original Flavor glass standard definition TV above and between the driver and passenger seats didn't turn on, and I couldn't tell if the fridge was operable without running the generator, connecting to shore power, or turning on the propane tank.  The generator is a Kohler 5 KW model that was installed a few years ago by the owner that actually has about 290 hours on it, not around 45.  We didn't start it because the mechanic will be testing auto-switching between shore and generator power.  The house batteries were replaced about three years ago when the dealer/owner acquired the MH, and seemed to be able to power their loads without any problem.

The fiberglass exterior has been exposed to the Sun and weather for the past three years of the current owner's possession, so, it's very slightly chalking.  I've brought boats and TTs with fiberglass exteriors back to a glistening shine with the appropriate polishes/waxes, which will also greatly slow degradation of the outer surfaces.  There are chipped edges of the fairings around the wheels, but, none of the straight fiberglass panels with butted-edge seam strips showed any damage or leaking.  There isn't a single square mm of leakage evidence throughout the MH, including inside cabinets, around A/C units, in the shower and toilet/sink areas, down interior or exterior walls, around windows, etc., and there's no hint of mold or mildew, either.

The cabinets and all wood panels and trim are in amazing shape, as they've not been worn or sun-bleached.  The owner has a couple of young kids, and there's no trace of the several trips per year that they make of several hours long on each leg.  The carpeting is another story - I don't know if the owner plans to do anything about it, but there are obvious stains wherever the carpeting transitions from vinyl flooring.  We may replace it to maintain the sound-absorbing properties, as well as the comfort factor, but probably not with the light blue that it currently is.  That's probably a reflection of the tastes of Grandpa and Grandma, who kept their tootsies nice and clean coming in from outside.

The auto-steps at the door were damaged when they were dragged while in the down position, so, that's another "Oops!" that needs to be repaired/replaced.

The owner responded when asked that no one else had expressed any interest in the MH, and, in fact, he and the wife don't really want to sell it, but, financial conditions are dictating that it must be sold.  He's in his mid-to-late 30s, and it appears the growing family is squeezing time and money for use of the MH.  He's a decent guy, for a used vehicle salesman, and was forthright about things that aren't 100%, and didn't jabber any marketing blather, possibly because I at least sound like I know what I'm doing (HA!!!)  ;D

I told him I'm seriously interested in it, with the final decision and offer subject to what the mechanic finds or doesn't find after the inspection and testing with city water and shore/generator power.  He said that he'll take it off the website and is willing to wait for payment until I start receiving my research stipends this Summer.  Barring some latent fatal flaw, I think we've found our Shangri-La, Mobile Edition.
He's put a significant amount of money into it, but, that was necessary in order to get and keep it on the road.  I'll be adding my own contributions, that I hope won't overlap much with his "investments".

It's now real and, while there are warts (barring any serious ones discovered in the full inspection), they can be lived with where they're not critical, and a small number will need to be addressed sooner, rather than later, but, not this month.  We're cautiously optimistic and went over to the KOA on the Yellowstone River where we'll be staying in June to ensure that the spot we'd reserved a couple of months ago is long enough for the Challenger.  They did have to shift our reservation over and there was still room, but, if we'd waited much longer, we might have been out of luck

This is looking like a small dream come true, and finding it was a total fluke, as we had been looking for a tow vehicle when this popped up as the first listing for a vehicle between $10,000 and $15,000 on the owner/dealer's website.  Sometimes, The Man Upstairs just laughs out loud at our ridiculous plans, and has his own idea what's best for us!
 
Great news Jim! I've been reading your posts with interest.  Hopefully everything will work out.

We drove through your neck of the woods a few years ago and stopped for a lovely sandwich in Broadus. There's not much going on out there, but it was a lovely drive! 

I bet your pupils adore you, you sound like a great teacher, the world needs more like you!

Good luck with the next stage of the purchase  ;D
 
jackiemac said:
Great news Jim! I've been reading your posts with interest.  Hopefully everything will work out.

We drove through your neck of the woods a few years ago and stopped for a lovely sandwich in Broadus. There's not much going on out there, but it was a lovely drive! 

I bet your pupils adore you, you sound like a great teacher, the world needs more like you!

Good luck with the next stage of the purchase  ;D

Hi Jackie,

Broadus!  Wow, you do like to get off the beaten path!  The signs on the I-94 Eastbound on-ramps in Montana say ?Bismarck?, which is upwards of 300 miles away, halfway across North Dakota.  So, when people ask what part of Montana I?m from, I tell them ?Extreme Western North Dakota?.  No matter where I am in Montana, though, I?m only a few hours? drive from Glacier, Yellowstone, or Grand Tetons NPs that ?normal? people typically spend thousands of dollars to visit for a few days, once in their lives.  Other world-class sites for skiing, hiking, boating, etc., are even closer or not much further away, but, there aren?t even signs to most of them, I suspect because those who run things don?t want the secret to get out about where they are.  There are no Interstate highways to any of them, which means that you really have to want to get here, but the rewards are incredible, as you no doubt know. 

It?s not all peaches and cream, though, and if you don?t know what you?re doing, Winter can be not just uncomfortable, but deadly.  People have died in their vehicles who slid off the road into a ditch due to sudden white-out conditions, and buried to the point that drivers in passing vehicles less than a day later could see no evidence of their auto, and vast tracts Out Here have no cell service.  I managed to slide off into a ditch last year as I was coming around a corner of a hill at around 25 mph, into the wind that was roaring through a cut in a ridge, blasting both new snow and drifting already-fallen flakes.  I couldn?t see the reflector stakes only 20 feet away and before I could brake to a stop, I felt the right front wheel go over the right shoulder and seconds later the vehicle was four feet below the rising roadway, in a couple of feet of drifting powder that no number of drive wheels could overcome, as the bottom of the van was sitting up on the snow.

Of course, there was no cell service, but, fortunately, a car was coming the other way less than five minutes later, during a lull in the whiteout.  He gave me a ride the 10 miles out to the nearest U.S. highway where there was a cell signal, and I was able to call for roadside assistance.  Then, he kindly drove me back to the van, my wife, and our kitty-cat, who had totally freaked out and dove behind and below my seat when she felt the low-g descent into the ditch (the kitty-cat, not my wife!).  It took three hours for the tow truck and two big, burly, bearded brothers to arrive, but, only about ten minutes to pull a cable, chain, and hook down to wrap around the real axle, drive the wrecker forward, and pull the van about 100 feet back up onto the road.  By then, the snow had stopped and been blown mostly off the road so that we could proceed to a hotel, arriving at midnight, still half-a-dozen hours short of home over icy roads, at 30 mph.  If I had tried to straighten the van's path to stay on the road "in the blind", it could have been much worse - the left shoulder rolls off down a 150-foot embankment that would have certainly resulted in rolling the van multiple times.

We just got 3G Out Here a year ago, but, according to a Verizon top-tier technician helping me get my 4G extender working, 3G will be gone in a few years with no planned replacement with even 4G, after 5G goes ?nationwide? in January 2020 ... which will only include metro areas and the more-traveled Interstates.  The carriers got the FCC to agree to let them abandon the current 3G markets (i.e., the rural areas) in order to roll out 5G to the markets with more monied customers sooner, rather than later.  We will likely never see 4G, let alone 5G, because most 4G towers can be upgraded with a software update, as the more recent equipment in the most lucrative metro markets was designed to be upgraded to 5G.  Even older 4G towers will be able to be upgraded to 5G with relatively minor modular hardware swap-outs, compared to what it takes to upgrade from 3G.  So, there won?t be much, if any, 4G equipment available to move out to 3G sites.

Be aware of that as you set out into the hinterlands in your RV starting after January 2020, as 3G towers in the most rural areas start to go silent when they fail from lack of maintenance, and are scheduled to be completely shut down by sometime in 2022, unless the situation is changed through Congressional legislation in both chambers and Presidential signature overriding the FCC and carriers? agreements.
 
The P30 was available for awhile with a 6.2L front diesel, but to the best of my knowledge never as a pusher. A pusher chassis is a completely different animal and would have little in common with a P30.

Here's the "red" P30 manual that everyone I know uses:

https://www.gmcmi.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/P30-Chassis-Manual.pdf
 
Gary RV_Wizard said:
The P30 was available for awhile with a 6.2L front diesel, but to the best of my knowledge never as a pusher. A pusher chassis is a completely different animal and would have little in common with a P30.

Here's the "red" P30 manual that everyone I know uses:

https://www.gmcmi.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/P30-Chassis-Manual.pdf

Hi Gary,

I was actually relieved to see the 454 in the front, as I'm much more familiar with that arrangement.  Anything in the back would be difficult, especially without a lift - I was also puzzled why there was no obvious grill/venting at the back for a rear-mounted engine - now it all makes much more sense.

I had downloaded the red manual at that link (which failed during multiple attempts, but, it could have been a problem somewhere along the network path).  I didn't realize what the diagrams were supposed to be showing, and I have to admit that I hadn't read the whole thing deeply.  I'm an engineer and know how to read actual engineering drawings, so, I assumed that the diagrams were abstractions without showing details that would obscure the components and subsystems of interest being described.  The engine isn't shown as a block in the overall diagram - that turned out to be the water tank at the rear under the bed!  I also didn't seek out the actual service manuals that were referred to in the red manual, which may not even be available to the public, at least not those produced by GM, and I haven't looked for the equivalent of Chilton's manuals (yet - I haven't bought The Beast, after all).   

The green manual was in the pile of documents (highly "organized" ... i.e., stuffed in a Target bag) and may be another version of the red manual, but specific to the year of the P30 in that Challenger.  I didn't get to look at it very long, as there was lots to see and test in a limited amount of time, but, if I do buy it, there will be plennnnty of time to digest it over cool ones.  Most of it is common sense info that I'm already familiar with, although it does get down to specifics about that chassis/engine/etc., that would be very useful.  The manuals for everything are also in there, but I'll definitely be organizing them into ziploc bags to ensure they survive further passage of time (I hope I won't need to resort to a National Archives' Declaration of Independence level of preservation!).  There was also a smaller black manual with white letters in the title rising to the right diagonally (I can't recall the title and didn't get to read any of it, but, it seemed to be a supplementary manual about the chassis/engine/etc., of some sort).  It will all get scanned for my own convenience and I'll upload whatever isn't already in the Library/Resources sections of RVForum.net.

Thanks and All the Best,
Jim
 
As I noted in my report after the initial walkthrough of the Challenger, the awning has been removed due to aging/damage.  So, I'm going to need to replace that, as I know how much that can reduce the incident heat on the MH, especially since the dining, kitchen, and living areas are directly behind the side on which the awning is mounted.  Any recommendations would be greatly appreciated, beyond checking with the recyclers listed in the Resources section (which I will be doing if I buy this MH).
 
jim_manley said:
Hi Jackie,

Broadus!  Wow, you do like to get off the beaten path!  The signs on the I-94 Eastbound on-ramps in Montana say ?Bismarck?, which is upwards of 300 miles away, halfway across North Dakota.  So, when people ask what part of Montana I?m from, I tell them ?Extreme Western North Dakota?.  No matter where I am in Montana, though, I?m only a few hours? drive from Glacier, Yellowstone, or Grand Tetons NPs that ?normal? people typically spend thousands of dollars to visit for a few days, once in their lives.  Other world-class sites for skiing, hiking, boating, etc., are even closer or not much further away, but, there aren?t even signs to most of them, I suspect because those who run things don?t want the secret to get out about where they are.  There are no Interstate highways to any of them, which means that you really have to want to get here, but the rewards are incredible, as you no doubt know. 

It?s not all peaches and cream, though, and if you don?t know what you?re doing, Winter can be not just uncomfortable, but deadly.  People have died in their vehicles who slid off the road into a ditch due to sudden white-out conditions, and buried to the point that drivers in passing vehicles less than a day later could see no evidence of their auto, and vast tracts Out Here have no cell service.  I managed to slide off into a ditch last year as I was coming around a corner of a hill at around 25 mph, into the wind that was roaring through a cut in a ridge, blasting both new snow and drifting already-fallen flakes.  I couldn?t see the reflector stakes only 20 feet away and before I could brake to a stop, I felt the right front wheel go over the right shoulder and seconds later the vehicle was four feet below the rising roadway, in a couple of feet of drifting powder that no number of drive wheels could overcome, as the bottom of the van was sitting up on the snow.

Of course, there was no cell service, but, fortunately, a car was coming the other way less than five minutes later, during a lull in the whiteout.  He gave me a ride the 10 miles out to the nearest U.S. highway where there was a cell signal, and I was able to call for roadside assistance.  Then, he kindly drove me back to the van, my wife, and our kitty-cat, who had totally freaked out and dove behind and below my seat when she felt the low-g descent into the ditch (the kitty-cat, not my wife!).  It took three hours for the tow truck and two big, burly, bearded brothers to arrive, but, only about ten minutes to pull a cable, chain, and hook down to wrap around the real axle, drive the wrecker forward, and pull the van about 100 feet back up onto the road.  By then, the snow had stopped and been blown mostly off the road so that we could proceed to a hotel, arriving at midnight, still half-a-dozen hours short of home over icy roads, at 30 mph.  If I had tried to straighten the van's path to stay on the road "in the blind", it could have been much worse - the left shoulder rolls off down a 150-foot embankment that would have certainly resulted in rolling the van multiple times.

We just got 3G Out Here a year ago, but, according to a Verizon top-tier technician helping me get my 4G extender working, 3G will be gone in a few years with no planned replacement with even 4G, after 5G goes ?nationwide? in January 2020 ... which will only include metro areas and the more-traveled Interstates.  The carriers got the FCC to agree to let them abandon the current 3G markets (i.e., the rural areas) in order to roll out 5G to the markets with more monied customers sooner, rather than later.  We will likely never see 4G, let alone 5G, because most 4G towers can be upgraded with a software update, as the more recent equipment in the most lucrative metro markets was designed to be upgraded to 5G.  Even older 4G towers will be able to be upgraded to 5G with relatively minor modular hardware swap-outs, compared to what it takes to upgrade from 3G.  So, there won?t be much, if any, 4G equipment available to move out to 3G sites.

Be aware of that as you set out into the hinterlands in your RV starting after January 2020, as 3G towers in the most rural areas start to go silent when they fail from lack of maintenance, and are scheduled to be completely shut down by sometime in 2022, unless the situation is changed through Congressional legislation in both chambers and Presidential signature overriding the FCC and carriers? agreements.
We do like to go off the beaten path and have found several interesting places by doing so.  We were on our way to South Dakota after being in Idaho. 

We then headed back to GTNP for the eclipse which was amazing.

The winters sound very extreme and I am not a snow lover so unlikely to spend much time in the US during that time unless it was far south.  We met a guy in Kelly WY last year who was telling me about a few accidents he had in his truck going off in the snow, once to avoid an elk, although unfortunately he did not miss it.  And the second when the truck was covered in the snow after rolling.  He was lucky. 

We are not too worried about wi-fi but obviously having a phone signal is important.  The truck we have can get satellite if we pay for it so that would be something to consider, but I know it was not great when we had it free for the first year.  We tend to mostly use Starbucks for wi-fi if the park signal is poor or non existent, depending on where we are. 

We are heading to the Tetons and will likely be there in July, so if you are around it would be lovely to meet yourself and Mary....
 
jackiemac said:
We do like to go off the beaten path and have found several interesting places by doing so.

We are heading to the Tetons and will likely be there in July, so if you are around it would be lovely to meet yourself and Mary....

Hi Jackie,

We live off the beaten path, as you know, having transited through this area!  We've discovered more wonderful places that way than any "organized" tour could possibly show, especially when the tour operators frequently get "spiffs" (kickbacks) for steering tourii (the Latin plural of "tourist"  ;D) to particular sites, facilities, etc.

We will be at MSU Bozeman from the last week of June until the second week in August.  I?ll be doing computer science research developing high-speed augmented reality data distribution for animal road crossings, adverse weather and road conditions traffic, accidents, etc., along drivers? planned paths (e.g., overlays on routes on Google Maps).  We plan to visit Yellowstone and GT NPs during weekends in Bozeman, since we?ll only be 2 - 3 hours away from the West and North entrances, respectively, to both parks and we have the wonderful NPS forever free entry pass to all NPs and NFs.  I haven't been to Yellowstone in 25 years,  and haven't ever been to GT, but, I'm looking forward to parking our MH to take a photo in front of the Motel 6 there ... that goes for $218 a night! :eek:

When it comes to meeting me, be careful what you wish for ... you just might get it!  Mary is the one everyone should want to meet, Mynx is second, and I'm a galactically-distant third.  At least we'll be able to ogle some galaxies as fuzzy nebulae there.

Do you keep your RV and TV somewhere here when you're back in Scotland?  I can't imagine how expensive it would be to move them back and forth across The Pond.

All the Best,
Jim, Mary, and Mynx
 

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Cute cat!

Yes, we store them in an indoor unit at Boulder City, not the cheapest, but peace of mind as we are so far away.

We spent a month in the Tetons last year and hope to do the same this year. We may do a bit of Yellowstone too, not decided yet.

We visited Bozeman last year to get some gadgets and it looked a nice town.

If you like we can exchange mobile numbers and email via PM and plan to meet somewhere!

We love stargazing and as Steve is a math and science guy, I'm sure you'd get on well.  ;D

 
A couple of things that I made notes about while doing the initial walkthrough of the Challenger:

- The vent in the living area just forward of the kitchen (about even with the door) didn't have a fan installed.  I didn't have a chance to look for wiring that may have been tucked up somewhere, but would there normally be a fan in any vent?  Since the MH has two A/C units, perhaps the fans in them provided the circulation, although that would certainly use more power.

- The owner/dealer said that the forward roof A/C was (only?) run through shore power, and the aft roof A/C could only be run through the generator.  Does that make sense?  The dashboard A/C is separate and runs mechanically through its compressor on the engine, and if what he was saying is accurate, or I understood him correctly, that means that the two roof A/C units couldn't be run via engine power while driving.  If that's the case, could at least one roof A/C unit be run through a DC/AC inverter off the 12-volt engine power coming from the alternator and voltage regulator?  Mary will sometimes need to lie down on the bed in the back due to her fibromyalgia, as well as use the "facilities", while I'm driving (one of the primary reasons we're getting a Class A), and the dash A/C obviously won't be able to cool the interior of the MH aft of the front seats.

- The generator is a Kohler 5 KW model, and does anyone know what their reputation is for reliability, efficiency, noise level, etc.?

I realize I may need to break this up into separate posts with appropriate subject lines, but, those who have been following my mental mas ... ummm ... "processes" have been very helpful and greatly appreciated.

Thanks and All the Best,
Jim
 

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