If you boondock a lot . . .

[DonTom]

My biggest worry will be trying to be parked on the level

That's more of an issue with the 1970's rigs. You don't have to be all that level with more modern rigs, if you're comfy enough inside the RV, the newer LPG refrigerators will be comfy as well. But I cannot tell you which year / years made the big difference, but it's been that way for many years now where levelling isn't all that important for the refrigerator-when within reason-- meaning you're comply enough inside the RV that is not perfectly level.

-Don- Reno, NV

 

[Pgh_AL]

That's more of an issue with the 1970's rigs. You don't have to be all that level with more modern rigs, if you're comfy enough inside the RV, the newer LPG refrigerators will be comfy as well. But I cannot tell you which year / years made the big difference, but it's been that way for many years now where levelling isn't all that important for the refrigerator-when within reason-- meaning you're comply enough inside the RV that is not perfectly level.

-Don- Reno, NV

Ok that good news my refrigerator is only 4yrs old and I usually don't park where i can't stand up or to any extreams where it is uncomfortable . So I should be ok?

 

[DonTom]

So I should be ok?

IMO, yes. A four year old rig on LPG should be even better than my Y2K and I don't worry about it being perfectly level.

FWIW, I would still say the more level the better, but it is not nearly as important as it was many years ago when LPG refrigerators had to be almost perfectly level to work well.

-Don- Reno, NV

 

[DonTom]

Don, have you asked the dealer if they could fit a propane option?

I heard back for La Mesa RV today. I was told via email there are several newer RVs that have the option of compressor or two-way (LP or 120 VAC), but the Thor Axis is not one of them. With the Thor Axis one is stuck with the 8 amp draw (five amps at night?).

I was told, as an example, they can order their Entegra Vision Motorhomes either with a two way or a 12V compressor refrigerator. They normally order the two way.

-Don- Reno, NV

 

[Old_Crow]

Lemme take a quick guess as to which coach costs more...

 

[JayArr]

Let me just chime in on the "level" debate because someone should rebut this idea that the "new ones" don't need to be level.

I would recommend to anyone to go spend an hour or so reading about how the absorption system works. In particular there is a pipe at the top of the unit where the heated gas/water first starts to turn to liquid and there is a kink in the pipe so that the water runs downhill one way back to the boiler while the ammonia has to run downhill in the opposite direction to cool the unit. When you look at the rear of the fridge it's the pipe across the top with the fins on it.

When the fridge is level all works great but if you aren't level the water can run in the wrong direction OR the ammonia can fail to move into the next portion of the system. In either case the fridge stops working properly. When the fridge isn't level it doesn't cool and that causes the heater to stay on (either gas or electric - it doesn't matter) With the heater on full blast - full time the unit overheats and one of the chemicals inside can turn to crystals which them block the pipe. At first it just restricts flow and reduces the cooling capacity but if done repeatedly, for years, it can result in a total blockage and coolant unit failure.

I've also read several places that "newer units don't need to be level" but I've never seen anyone give a reason why or proof or a reference article. I think this is an urban myth, possibly started by a salesman that wanted to close a deal and told someone they don't need to level the "new ones".

The technology hasn't changed as far as I can see so I don't understand why leveling is said to be no longer necessary.

Sorry to call you out on this DonTom, if you have proof, or a reference from Dometic or Norcold, or a technical reason I'd love to see it. In fact I'd be happy to read anything anyone has to link that would prove me wrong. I'm a technical guy and this just feels like a "salesman lie" to me.

 

[Babe2201]

Having a 12V fridge only the answer would be no unless you also want to buy a generator to charge the battery on occasion or invest into a lot of solar panels. It is great because of the room but it does take a lot out of the battery.

 

[DonTom]

Sorry to call you out on this DonTom, if you have proof, or a reference from Dometic or Norcold, or a technical reason I'd love to see it.

No problem at all. I like to hear all sides of any issue. But please read this.

"how level should your refrigerator be?” Well, fortunately, today’s refrigerators have greater tolerances than those owned by our parents or grandparents. Their RVs had to be almost perfectly level to operate well. Today, Norcold recommends that their refrigerators operate within 3 degrees off level side-to-side and 6 degrees off level front-to-back."

-Don- Reno, NV

 

[JayArr]

Excellent, a reference with some numbers instead of nebulous meanderings.

Norcold recommends that their refrigerators operate within 3 degrees off level side-to-side and 6 degrees off level front-to-back. What does this mean for you when leveling your rig? Half a bubble on your RV level should be good enough for an overnight stay, but if I’m going to be boondocked for several days or a week at the same location then I like to get my rig as level as possible. Taking a few extra moments to properly level your rig will enable your refrigerator to cool better and last longer by preventing ammonia crystals from forming.

Thanks DomTom. I think it's important to have some actual reference numbers so that people know what the tolerance should be.

 

[JayArr]

I followed up with a visit to Norcold's site and found this in their FAQ:

If you have a gas absorption refrigerator, normal leveling of the vehicle is sufficient. The refrigerator is made to operate within 3 degrees off level side-to-side and 6 degrees off level front-to-back (looking at the front of the refrigerator).

NOTE: When Norcold says 3 degrees side to side they are referring to the fridge not the trailer or RV. If your fridge is mounted on a side wall (as opposed to the front or back of the trailer) then the trailer has to be level from front to back within 3 degrees.

Front to back (6 degrees) refers to the fridge and means the trailer or RV needs to be leveled side to side within 6 degrees, less critical because the pipe I referred to runs the other way.

I don't know what the previous generation's numbers were but 3 degrees is a pretty tight tolerance and I doubt most pads in most parks are going to be close enough without adjustment.

 

[DonTom]

Having a 12V fridge only the answer would be no unless you also want to buy a generator to charge the battery on occasion or invest into a lot of solar panels. It is great because of the room but it does take a lot out of the battery.

The Thor Axis I am still considering (even with the 8 amp ref draw) comes with a 4KW genny as well as 100W of solar. But rather small L-A house batteries. I didn't look at their AH rating, but I doubt it could be much.

I figure I can even leave the refrigerator off and empty for long term boondocking, by stocking up on MREs, freeze dried meals and other foods that do no require to be refrigerated. Or just make sure I run the genny as often as possible. So there are still choices I can make.

Since I want my Class A as small as possible, I figure I should not let the DC only refrigerator be a deal killer. It's the smallest new Class A of them all.

I think the only way we can find the perfect RV is to design it ourselves. Or modify it ourselves. Kinda what I have done to my old one as far as boondocking is concerned. 300 AH lith battery and 200W of solar. Also has a 4KW genny and 4KW inverter in a small Class C.

-Don- Reno, NV

 

[DonTom]

Front to back (6 degrees) refers to the fridge and means the trailer or RV needs to be leveled side to side within 6 degrees, less critical because the pipe I referred to runs the other way.

In my old RV refrigerator (1979), I kept several little level testers right on the refrigerator to make sure it was as level as possible at any overnight stop. It was more important for the refrigerator to be level than it was for me and the rest of the RV.

In my Y2K, I don't even bother with that. No problems so far with this issue in 21 years of use. Now if I feel level enough, it's good enough, IMO.

But I doubt anybody will disagree that the more level the better, even with the newest LPG refrigerators. But it is not nearly as important as it used to be.

-Don- Reno, NV

 

[Babe2201]

The Thor Axis I am still considering (even with the 8 amp ref draw) comes with a 4KW genny as well as 100W of solar. But rather small L-A house batteries. I didn't look at their AH rating, but I doubt it could be much.

I figure I can even leave the refrigerator off and empty for long term boondocking, by stocking up on MREs, freeze dried meals and other foods that do no require to be refrigerated. Or just make sure I run the genny as often as possible. So there are still choices I can make.

Since I want my Class A as small as possible, I figure I should not let the DC only refrigerator be a deal killer. It's the smallest new Class A of them all.

I think the only way we can find the perfect RV is to design it ourselves. Or modify it ourselves. Kinda what I have done to my old one as far as boondocking is concerned. 300 AH lith battery and 200W of solar. Also has a 4KW genny and 4KW inverter in a small Class C.

-Don- Reno, NV

I was thinking more TT than a motorhome. With an onboard generator it would not bother me to have a 12V only fridge.

 

[DonTom]

"normal leveling of the vehicle is sufficient. "

Please note it says "of vehicle" not "of refrigerator".

And that is exactly what changed over the years.

-Don- Reno, NV

 

[DonTom]

I was thinking more TT than a motorhome. With an onboard generator it would not bother me to have a 12V only fridge.

I have never owned a TT in my life, so I don't know anything about them. But they don't have gennys? Why not?

But the most important thing I forgot about the Thor Axis RV refrigerator is the OFF switch.

I have other 12 volt loads as well, such as my ham gear. Gets a lot of use during the long December nights, which is my main RV season (to southern AZ).

Then I thought about what I was mostly eating the last time I was boondocked for several weeks straight. Most of it did NOT come from the refrigerator anyway.

It's not the big issue I was thinking it was, as long as my refrigerator / freezer is empty by the time I do some long term boondocking, and even if not empty, I can run the genny more until it is.

I may soon buy that Thor Axis after all. I am leaning in that direction, but I will ask if they found the key for that Holiday Rambler in Sparks. Perhaps I will recheck there tomorrow. I will ask if they found the key later today in an email.

-Don- Reno, NV

 

[Dreamsend]

With regard to #68 and 70 above, this has always been confusing to me. When one says "degrees" are they referring to the unit of measure like in a 360 degree circle, or to the numbers on a regular carpenter's level? From experience, I thought it referred to the carpenter's level, because my Norcold does just fine at front to back at even greater than a 3. Side to side I couldn't tolerate a 6 for living so I know I'm more level than that. I've never been in an RV park I had to level for any reason - both directions are always 0 to 1 - so I don't think 3 degrees means like circle degrees as #70 above seems to indicate. Boondocking has required some leveling now and then.

Can someone please clarify for me and others what is meant by "degrees" with regard to leveling?

TIA
Linda

 

[DonTom]

Can someone please clarify for me and others what is meant by "degrees" with regard to leveling?

I think this explains it all very well.

-Don- Reno, NV

 

[Dreamsend]

Thank you Don. I'll listen to it as soon as I get my speakers hooked back up to computer, but the one visual confirmed what I thought.

 

[JayArr]

Degrees on a carpenters level?

Can you eleaborate on that Dreamsend? I own a bunch of carpenters levels and AFAIK none of them have degrees marked on them. Am I missing something?

I assume Norcold is talking degrees as in a protractor, rise over run, 360 per circle type of degrees.

The guy in the video has got good info on why you need to level your fridge but he's out to lunch on how to calibrate a spirit level.

It's possible that the bubble would still be on the side at 2 degrees, we don't know, he should have checked with consecutively thinner boards until the bubble didn't touch the side but he didn't bother. Completely innacurate.

Assuming a half-bubble off center is less than 3 degrees could be an error.

I have one of these bullseye levels in the bottom of my fridge.

Ubei Levels High Precision Round Bullseye Bubble Level Spirit Bubble Surface Level Bubble Inclinometers for Surveying Instruments, PRO Measuring Tool And Tribrachs, Ø60mm,Accuracy 15'/2 Aluminium Case : Amazon.ca: Tools & Home Improvement

Ubei Levels High Precision Round Bullseye Bubble Level Spirit Bubble Surface Level Bubble Inclinometers for Surveying Instruments, PRO Measuring Tool And Tribrachs, Ø60mm,Accuracy 15'/2 Aluminium Case : Amazon.ca: Tools & Home Improvement

www.amazon.ca

Cheap and accurate and measures both directions at the same time, easy to see and I just leave it in there full time.

Also available in a model that goes to 6 degrees.

Umei 50X11.5mm Scale and with hole Aluminum Alloy Circular Bubble Level High Precision Level Instrument Spirit Level Measuring Device (Magnetic), Levels - Amazon Canada

Umei 50X11.5mm Scale and with hole Aluminum Alloy Circular Bubble Level High Precision Level Instrument Spirit Level Measuring Device (Magnetic) in Levels.

www.amazon.ca

 

[DonTom]

Cheap and accurate and measures both directions at the same time, easy to see and I just leave it in there full time.

I see your rig is a 1992.

I wonder which year the LPG refrigerators became less critical, or if it was a slow type of deal where every new refrigerator model required just a little less levelling than the previous model.

-Don- Reno, NV