I'm really nervous now?what a mess

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parrotmom

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Been following Carl's and others comments on tow vehicle/trailer weight. On Friday I'm picking up an RPM23FD with a listed GVWR of 7,686#. I have an 03 Chevy Silverado extended cab short bed with a 5.3 Vortec V-8. Trailer Life Mag tow ratings show 7,100#. Working backward from the dry weight I added 720# for tankage, 150# for genset, 850# for cages (probably too much), 250# misc. ballast for a total of 6,710# and called it 7,000#. Lowland towing load is 7777#, 10% more than my truck rating. This probably means no mountain work.

Dealer said, "Be no problem!" with my tow vehicle. I think they need to prove this. Am I wrong? I can scrap this deal, but the deadline is Friday. What a mess! Maybe a class A.

I will say this, I had no idea whatsoever that RVing was so complicated. Joining this group has been great and I can't thank you folks enough for your interest, knowledge and dedication.
 

DougJ

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Joined
Mar 7, 2005
Posts
549
Dealer said, "Be no problem!" with my tow vehicle.

Gee, I wonder if anyone on the forum can report a dealer saying, oh watch out for that, you could be in a bit of trouble.

Ciao,

Doug
 

John From Detroit

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Apr 12, 2005
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Davison Michigan
Odds are you will be able to tow with few, if any, problems.  I would avoid some roads (someone spoke of the High road to out west (The one that goes via Denver) which has a streatch that is rather steep and rather long and is the true test of power for any vehcile) but there is some safety built in.  That said, I don't like trusting in the safety margins.  make very sure you have a good trailer braking system and known how to use it.  As with many vehicles, the weakest link is often sitting behind the steering wheel.  If you understand your system fully (Tow vehicle, towed and brakes) you are much stronger than average and so is your rig.

That said, a long term overload does bad things to the towed
 

Karl

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Elkhart Lake, WI for the summer. Work at Road Amer
It would be helpful if you could provide more details on the tow vehicle (model, rear-end ratio, etc) and on the trailer (dry weight, max. weight, tank sizes, etc. Who makes the RPM23FD? A google search didn't come up with anything. Is it Forest River? Also what is this number and how did you come up with it?
Lowland towing load is 7777#,
 

steph

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Aug 8, 2006
Posts
121
Don't feel bad.? I had no idea things were so complicated either.? We have changed our looking back to the Class C motorhome instead of the travel trailer.? Thought my Sequoia could handle it.? Don't want to buy a new vechile to tow with.? We have a truck that could do it but that would make it difficult to take the dog along which is one of the main factors in doing this.? She wouldn't have much room in the truck.
Thank goodness I found these boards too!? Everyone has been very helpful.?
 

Ron

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Home is where we park it
If the truck GCVWR, GVWR , or any of the axle weight ratings would be exceeded towing the proposed trailer there is no way there is no way he can tow the proposed trailer legally or safely whether it be flat land or mountainous short of getting a different truck that has the capability to tow the proposed trailer safely and legally.  Darn I hate these dealers that tell folks what they are trying to sell is alright when it isn't.  These kind of dealers could very well be placing somebody in danger.
 
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parrotmom

Guest
Karl said:
It would be helpful if you could provide more details on the tow vehicle (model, rear-end ratio, etc) and on the trailer (dry weight, max. weight, tank sizes, etc. Who makes the RPM23FD? A google search didn't come up with anything. Is it Forest River? Also what is this number and how did you come up with it?

The RPM is made by Adventure Mfg. (Timberlodge). Adventure has been very helpful, but not the dealer, AL'S MOTORHOME & TRAILER SALES, INC., Fort Pierce, Florida, who won't release our deposit.  :mad:  This purchase won't be concluded. Chevrolet says "no way" to the load. AL'S MOTORHOME & TRAILER SALES was ready willing and prepared to put us, who are complete novices, on the road with a dangerous (probably illegal) trailer. I don't know what trade groups they are members of, but I'll find out. I hope no one does any business with them. Is there a "bad dealer list" anywhere?
 

Shayne

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Jan 22, 2006
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4,324
Might not hurt to give BBB a call.  Or for that matter contact an attorney if the deposit was large enough.
 

Carl L

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west Los Angeles
Send a formal letter of demand for the refund on the basis that the trailer is unsafe for the use intended.  Cite Chevrolet's objections to the loading.  Mail it certified, return receipt requests.  Contact your DMV or the agency that regulates vehicle sales in your state.  FIle a complaint.  Contact the trailer manufacturer with a written complaint.  CC copies of your letter to the agency and mfr in filing your complaints.  Check out the small claims procedures in your county.
 
D

D2

Guest
Years ago, when we had a dispute (not RV related), our attorney told us to put him on the cc:? We didn't have to actually send the letter to him unless we didn't get things resolved.? He said sometimes having an attorney cc:'d gets folks attention.
 

shmuck2002

Active member
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Jun 2, 2006
Posts
28
Location
Moreno Valley, CA
I ran this by my dad, who is a lawyer, he says it is extremely common for situations like this to arise when there is nothing in writing. Legally, your deposit is fully-refundable before said date, but, like insurance companies, they are not in the business of giving money away. if they can just brow-beat you into going away, or forcing you into the sale, they will.

Simply sending them the stated demand letter, certified mail, and advising them you are contacting your attorney, should promptly get you your refund. They can lie to you till their blue in the face verbally, but they dont dare do it in writing. Sharks arent dumb, they're just bloodthirsty killers ;)

If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck.... it must be a shady RV dealer :D
 
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parrotmom

Guest
Thank you all very much for the advice. I have cancelled the sale with a certified letter and disputed the charge on my Visa card. I CAN'T SAY ENOUGH BAD THINGS ABOUT THE POOR ETHICS OF AL'S MOTOR HOME AND TRAILER SALES (IL & FL). This dealer to me, a rank novice, this it was my obligation to determine whether or not my truck would pull this RV, and not theirs to disclose. They would have blithely sent me out on the road with a trailer that would have overleaded my truck by 25%-30%.  :mad:  They said that they "Never heard of any 10% safety factor for level terrain and 20% for hilly driving." Go figure. The factory (Adventure Mfg.) kindly weighed an identical trailer (fitted out the same as my purchase), and it was 15% more than the dry weight shown in their spec sheet!  :eek:. This made the matter worse.

What have I learned from this? Some dealers lie. Some dealers are in it for the money and don't care if they send novices out on the road to endanger their lives and those of others on the road. That there is far more to RVing than hooking up and going. The great folks at Camping World, Tim at RVcams.com, and several others who were helping me fit out my toy hauler have generously agreed to take back what they sold me without a second thought; I thank them all! What a difference from AL'S!!!!! Finally, that the folks that surf the RV Forum are the best!

What are we doing now to escape Naples, FL with our 9 pet parrots, pooch and selves in the event of a hurricane? Looking for an older Class A diesel (Tiffin, Blue Bird, Country Coach, Monaco) with low miles and in good shape. I'll be back when there is something to talk about. What a mess, but boy, were we lucky given the potential risks.
 
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D2

Guest
If you put a down payment on your Visa card, contact Visa and tell them you are disputing the charge.  I have done this in the past with other credit cards.  Usually, the credit card company will "suspend" the charge, contact the dealer and he will have to explain/defend the charge.  I have had companies back down when I have done this and never heard from them again when I had alegitimate dispute with a charge.
 

Gary RV_Wizard

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At our Silver Springs FL home
I'm not surprised Al's never heard of our suggested margins.  The 10% and 20% margins we recommend are by no means an industry accepted standard, but experience has shown that the light duty trucks are often severely taxed if loaded to their limits. A 3500 diesel can usually live up to its ratings, but lesser trucks rarely so.  We also know that everything weighs more than the brochure says, as you have now proven.  ;)

Contact Visa and tell them the transaction has not been completed and will not be and that you are protesting the charge on your card. That will give you some leverage.

As for Al's, just keep on telling them that you relied on the salesman's word about your truck's cpability when you signed the buy order. And that now you have done just what they said you should do - verified that your truck CANNOT pull the load - and want a refund.  The dealer & salesman are fully responsible for what they tell you and any court in any state will certainly agree. Particularly in regard to a safety issue.
 

excelerater

New member
Joined
Aug 8, 2006
Posts
3
a 2500 Dmax would be better but
I have the same truck and I have pulled over 8000+lbs for thousands of miles with no issues
of course Chevy is going to say NoWay to any weight over what the brouchure says
esp if you get some preprogramed CSR guy on the line...
Uppgrade the flimsy GM hitch and youll be fine,check your tongue weights,might need a weight dist hitch
The only issues I ever had with the Silverados was lame brakes ,
since 1999 to 2006 GM doesnt like stopping a 1500 series truck so I upgraded to aftermarket
but if the trailer has good brakes youll survive.

If you really wanna get more torque go to a 4.10 gear on that truck(2wd) and
youll really like it...
Towratings are a guide use them with your best judgement
 

Karl

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Mar 3, 2005
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Location
Elkhart Lake, WI for the summer. Work at Road Amer
Excelerater,
Towratings are a guide use them with your best judgement
Have to disagree with your interpretation. Tow ratings are maximums, and many things are factored in like gear ratios, axle strength, wheel rims, tire sizes, braking ability, cooling system, suspension component strength, etc. Merely increasing the diff. ratio may give you more torque and the ability to haul more weight, but the additional weight may overstress other suspension, drivetrain or brake components, and make handling and safety an issue too. Also, those ratings do not take into consideration travel topography. A particular setup may be fine for plains driving, but mountains can turn a tiger into a toad. That's why we use the 10%, 20% safety factor when recommending maximum GCVW.
 

Ron

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Joined
Jan 29, 2005
Posts
18,082
Location
Home is where we park it
excelerater said:
a 2500 Dmax would be better but
I have the same truck and I have pulled over 8000+lbs for thousands of miles with no issues
of course Chevy is going to say NoWay to any weight over what the brouchure says
esp if you get some preprogramed CSR guy on the line...
Uppgrade the flimsy GM hitch and youll be fine,check your tongue weights,might need a weight dist hitch
The only issues I ever had with the Silverados was lame brakes ,
since 1999 to 2006 GM doesnt like stopping a 1500 series truck so I upgraded to aftermarket
but if the trailer has good brakes youll survive.

If you really wanna get more torque go to a 4.10 gear on that truck(2wd) and
youll really like it...
Towratings are a guide use them with your best judgement


Bottom line is if you are over the published GVWR or the GCWR you are exposing yourself to serious liability issues should you become involved in an accident as well as jeopardizing the safety to you your passengers or anybody else around you.  Weight ratings are a part of the vehicle design and are determined by qualified engineers and involve more than just what the engine drive train can move.  The design is to allow the vehicle to move and stop the load safely. To exceed the designed weight ratings is just not a good thing to do.

The last trip we made from Texas to Yuma last year the patrol and their friends had a RV truck trailer combination pulled over and was measuring length as well as getting scales out to weigh him.

Personally I strongly recommend NOT exceeding the GVWR/GCVWR of any vehicle.

 

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