indoor non-electric space heater needed

[Pat]

I would like to know if there are any pros and cons for an indoor non-electric space heater and if there are any recommended products.  Also, I assume the heat sources are butane and propane.  Any preferences?  I need to take something to the bath house in this park, because it's not heated.  Electric wouldn't work.  No outlet, plus all electric space heaters are adamant about not using them in steamy places. 

--pat

 

[Tom]

Kerosene heaters give off a lot of heat, but that's another fuel to carry around. As with all combustion type heaters, beware of using them in enclosed rooms.

 

[Phil]

I would like to know if there are any pros and cons for an indoor non-electric space heater and if there are any recommended products.  Also, I assume the heat sources are butane and propane.  Any preferences?  I need to take something to the bath house in this park, because it's not heated.  Electric wouldn't work.  No outlet, plus all electric space heaters are adamant about not using them in steamy places. 

Pat,

Taking a potentially explosive device into a public bath house might get you into trouble.  Kerosene heaters are pretty large to carry to the bath house.  A small propane tank with a portable stove and heat drum would work but might get you evicted.  An alcohol back pack stove might be smuggled in under a towel.

A hunters pocket warmer would be the easiest to hide.

Phil

 

[John From Detroit]

The biggest con with using combustion heaters indoors is oxygen... There is a limited amount, the heater will consume oxygen until there is no longer enough to support combustion.

Alas, you died a long time ago

 

[Steve CDN]

I would not recommend any form of combustion in an RV, considering the flammable materials used in construction, a supply of gasoline or fuel, and propane on board.  Why not use your onboard furnace if you don't want to use electric heaters?

 

[Tom]

I don't think was looking for a heater in the coach Steve:

I need to take something to the bath house in this park, because it's not heated.

 

[Steve CDN]

I read faster than my mind could absorb :

 

[Gary RV_Wizard]

We find the portable Buddy Heater by Mr Heater works nicely - see http://www.mrheater.com/productdetail.asp?id=678&cid=164

It is a catalytic type (as opposed to "blue flame") and it has a low oxygen sensor that shuts it off before any carbon monoxide could be generated.  It uses either 1 lb propane bottles or a standard LP trank with extension hose.

Ought to be dandy for the bath house.  It's usually available at a good discount at Lowes, Home Depot, Walmart, etc.

 

[Tom]

That looks like a nice heater Gary.

 

[Gary RV_Wizard]

We even use it in the house on cold nights. Our main living area has a windows across one whole side and it gets chilly by the windows long before the thermostat senses a drop in temperature.  And that's where my favorite reading chair is located! That little heater does a nice job of warming the area in front of the windows when set to "low".

 

[John From Detroit]

One thing I will tell you about the Mr. Buddy heater....

Friend has one which had a bad regulator.. Seems the regularor got well oiled. So I started searchign for a replacement

I checked high and low and the best I coudl do was a hose and regulator assembly that would have set me back about sixty bucks.

So, I loged onto the web, did the google bit and found Mr. Heater's web site..... Six bucks later (Shipping included) I had a brand new OEM replacement.

Yes, a very nice heater, and a good parts department too

 

[Pat]

Gary:? Do you leave a window or vent open when you're running the Mr. Buddy indoors?? It's the one I got yesterday at Ace, and all the dire warnings had me boxing it up to return.?

Also, the 1lb propane bottles say they aren't to be stored inside, but once you screw one of the bottles on the Mr. Buddy, you can't take it off and put it outside for the night, can you? There seems to be some conflict whether it's the 1lb nonrefillables or just the big refillable that isn't supposed to be inside.  I read the side of the 1lb nonrefillable bottle, and it states don't store inside either.  I hate conflicting information. 

The instructions say the heater is never to be used while sleeping.? Do you agree?? Follow that?

Note that I'm in a small MH 24' long and 8.5' wide (outside dimensions).  I'd like to keep the floor warmer.  Do you place it on the floor?  No overheating down there?  Rugs ok?

I'll hold off returning this thing, if everybody feels it's pretty safe. I like that it doesn't blow a cool breeze for the bath house use.

I couldn't understand the instructions about pressing some button, which I think ignites it or something.  They don't show in the button in the illustration.? I'll have to get it out of the car and ask again.

--pat

 

[John From Detroit]

Pat,
Each and every Propane operated device carries warnings about storing Propane inside,  There are genuine reasons for this, Mostly they are concerned about a propane tank either 1: Leaking or 2:Venting and a bulid up of propane gas inside your dwelling that builds up to the proper proportion.

Then, should it meat with a source of ignition.. You'll have the first RV on the moonb

 

[Pat]

JID:  True about the propane tanks.  What the heater manual specified was that "refillable" tanks must be stored outside.  The little 1lb canisters are not refillable.  However, the nonrefillable canister has a note that it should not be stored inside.  My concern wasn't about the container supply but about the container that is currently attached to the heater.  Upon further review, the heater manual says that the heater must not be stored with the container attached.  So apparently I remove the little container when I want to turn off the heater.  Does that sound correct?  Do I need to haul the heater outside to remove the canister?  Does the canister need to be taken out until it's needed again?  I am perfectly willing to do this, but I"m in a learning mode here and want to understand the unit.  I also wonder if the unit can be moved right after it's been shut off but is still hot. 

Another note on the canister says that they should not be stored in temperatures exceeding 120 degrees, which could be a problem in AZ.  It does not specify a low limit, so I guess the propane doesn't freeze, or it doesn't matter.

--pat

 

[Gary RV_Wizard]

Mr Heater, like all propane appliance companies these days, is covering their backside thoroughly.  After the lawyers & the gov't get through with the labels, nobody in their right mind would get anywhere near any propane appliance, let alone actually light it.

It all depends on how much you want to worry. Your RV is already full of propane devices that could conceivably fail in some way and leak, perhaps igniting or suffocating you. Life is full of risks.

Refillable propane bottles are designed to vent if they get too far over pressure, so it is standard to procedure to place them outside where venting a bit of LPG usually won't bother much - unless it happens to be next to your LPG water heater or refrigerator flame. The 1 lb bottles do not have an automatic vent and I'll bet you bought them off a shelf that was INSIDE a store.  However, their valve seals have been known to leak once they have been installed and removed several times.  For that reason, I feel it is better to leave the bottle attached than to remove/replace at each use.

I do NOT leave the heater on while sleeping, ever.
I do leave the 1 lb bottle connected until it runs dry
I do leave the heater indoors when I am using it regularly
I store the heater in a bay when I am not using it and leave the bottle attached.
I have been known to use a refillable bottle in an enclosed space, at the end of a 10 foot hose to keep it well away from any flame

You should have a LPD detector in your RV. The Buddy heater does have a low oxygen sensor and shutoff. These two things substantially mitigate any risks of indoor use.  They do not make it zero risk.

 

[John From Detroit]

Another note on the canister says that they should not be stored in temperatures exceeding 120 degrees, which could be a problem in AZ.  It does not specify a low limit, so I guess the propane doesn't freeze, or it doesn't matter.

Pat, I don't, off hand, know the freezing point of propane however I do know two thigns that both suggest "not to worry"  One, the boiling point of propane is right around the point at which you don't have to question "Centergrade or Fairenhight" that is minus 40 degrees.

Second Water is unique in that as it freezes it expands, for this reason Ice floats,  All other materials contract as they freeze, thus steel, will sink to the bottom of a pool of molten steel, likewise propane.  Thus there is no freezing danger wwith propane,  It simply won't work if frozen, that's all

And the reason they want you to remove the cylinder when not using the heater again is legal safety, if you leave the cylinder in the heater, and the heater's control valve and safety valve leak... Liability occures, however if you REMOVE the cylinder, then Mr. heater incures no liability if the valve on the cylinder leaks and your house flys to the moon with you inside

 

[Tom]

I don't wish to unnecessarily scare anyone, but I became somewhat more sensitized to the dangers of propane leaks when the BBQ on our deck at home developed a leak from the high pressure side of the regulator. The entire BBQ was engulfed in flames and there was a loud roar like a blow torch; That was the fuel leaking out at high pressure and immediately igniting in the flame. I had blisters on my arm for some time afterwards because the only way to quickly put out the blow torch was to turn the fuel off at the valve on the tank. Had that been an indoor heater, the house (or coach) would have gone up.

The replacement BBQ is now located on concrete rather than on the deck and I have a fire extinguisher mounted close by.

I don't plan to use a propane heater indoors if the tank and regulator are also indoors.

 

[Pat]

Gary:  Thanks for the clarifications.  I'm keeping the heater.  It will provide peace of mind that I have a backup if we lose power and I don't want to run the generator.  Also, it'll be much more practical in these unheated bath houses.  I have a place in an outside cabinet to store a couple backup propane cylinders.  I do think it's more practical to keep the used cylinder attached to the heater.  The most convenient place for me to put it, if I had to use it inside, is right in front of the LP detector.  I could set it on the kitchen drainboard, but I'm concerned about the 30" clearance from combustibles above the top.  Cupboards are about 27". Also, unless I set it close to the edge, it'll be under an even lower cupboard.  So the floor seems the only solution.  I'll attach the cylinders outside.  Is there an approved or not approved way to dispose of the empty cylinders?

To start it, you turn the red knob, while holding it down, hold it on Pilot for 30 seconds, push down on the igniter button, and after it lights, keep the knob pushed down on Pilot for another 30 seconds and then turn it to Hi until the tile is warm?  Does this sound right?  Their instructions are a bit vague, and they don't show the igniter button in the manual.  I had to find it in the spec sheet I downloaded from their website last night.

BTW, the website said the heater is approved for outdoor use only in Canada. 

--pat

 

[BernieD]

To start it, you turn the red knob, while holding it down, hold it on Pilot for 30 seconds, push down on the igniter button, and after it lights, keep the knob pushed down on Pilot for another 30 seconds and then turn it to Hi until the tile is warm?  Does this sound right? 

Pat

A number of years ago, we had a natural gas fired hot water heater in our home that had a tendency for the pilot light to blow out. I don't remember the exact procedure for relighting, but it does sound similar to what you are describing.

 

[Gary RV_Wizard]

To start it, you turn the red knob, while holding it down, hold it on Pilot for 30 seconds, push down on the igniter button, and after it lights, keep the knob pushed down on Pilot for another 30 seconds and then turn it to Hi until the tile is warm?  Does this sound right?

Yes, that's it. I seldom need to hold the Pilot button down for more than a couple seconds - the heater lights quite easily. I don't use Hi all that much either - puts out nice heat on Lo and LP consumption is tiny on Lo.

How did you miss that great big red igniter button???