Currently we use a Verizon cube which picks up the internet in most locations on the east coast of the USA. Next year we will begin to explore the western USA but we want to make sure we always have internet access, so we thought we'd ask the group what they are using along with the associated cost, reliability, and ease of setup.
Internet Access
- Thread starter GCA
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Sunnyfalls
Well-known member
Starlink...one for our remote home in Oregon that doesn't have any cell or landline coverage and one for our Casita trailer. We dumped expensive cell phones/plans, Direct TV and HughesNet many years ago and have saved a fortune...
A Peplink Max BR1 or Transit modem/router and an antenna on the roof will get you any cell signal to be had, far better than a hotspot device or phone.
If you must have service, you can't depend on only one method, whether cell or satellite.
If you must have service, you can't depend on only one method, whether cell or satellite.
Sunnyfalls
Well-known member
We have never encountered a situation where we couldn't get Starlink to work perfectly (i.e., enable streaming 4K our desired programming, video conferencing our kids/grandkids, surfing the Internet, emailing and texting). And we have traveled far more extensively then most ever will and have encountered and addressed all manner of tree canopy coverage and such.
But we have encountered many situations where there was NOT any cell coverage at all or any other means to access the Internet. We actually had people waiting in line at our campsite while we were staying in Yellowstone Madison campground for three weeks just so they could call their families to let them know they had safely arrived.
But it is very apparent that the struggling cell phone companies and geostationary satellite companies are very desperate and will say and do anything to keep people from moving to Starlink.
But we have encountered many situations where there was NOT any cell coverage at all or any other means to access the Internet. We actually had people waiting in line at our campsite while we were staying in Yellowstone Madison campground for three weeks just so they could call their families to let them know they had safely arrived.
But it is very apparent that the struggling cell phone companies and geostationary satellite companies are very desperate and will say and do anything to keep people from moving to Starlink.
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not sure what's expensive about a phone service, I pay $35 for unlimited and $20 for a dedicated internet data plan. current price of starlink on their site is $150 for roaming per month. obviously coverage will be superior with starlink, but then we often boondock in places specifically to have NO services.. LOL
Sunnyfalls
Well-known member
When we dumped cell phones and geostationary satellite companies, things were more expensive. Smart cell phones were going for about $1000 each and typically would get replaced every two years...so for the two of us that equated to about $80/month. Our cell plan at the time was about $120/month. Our Direct TV monthly bill was about $150/month and our HughesNet bill was about the same. So our total monthly expense was about $500/month...which was about $6000/year.
Yes, compared to Starlink, these dumped services were dismal at best. And Starlink roaming is prorated so you only pay for days you activate it and NOT $150 every month. If you don't use Starlink during the month, you don't pay anything.
Like you, we mostly dry camp in very remote locations too and can do so for long periods. Like our home, if there is any cell coverage, you won't find us there... But we still want our RV to always have Internet access. When we leave our site for supplies, we want to be able to check our security system, especially if we leave our cats in the RV. And we like to stay in contact with family and stream our desired programming.
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Tom
Administrator
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- Jan 13, 2005
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- 52,257
A Verizon MyFi device works almost all across the US. We don't travel as much as we used to, and currently drive between our California home, our Wyoming summer retreat, and our Ohio townhome.
On rare occasions when we don't have a VZW signal, we use an AT&T Mobley device ($23/month, including tax), but AT&T doesn't work well in Wyoming.
On rare occasions when we don't have a VZW signal, we use an AT&T Mobley device ($23/month, including tax), but AT&T doesn't work well in Wyoming.
Tulecreeper
Well-known member
And therein lies the problem. I bought my cell in the summer of 2020 for ~$500 - still have it. If I replace it in the not-too-distant future, I will not pay more than $700 for one. There is zero benefit for me to get a new cell more than once every 4 or 5 years. And I definitely would buy a model that is 2 generations behind the current one, but still new in the box.
RedForeman
Well-known member
Best answer so far.
I think the challenge is that most users are not geeks and just want something they can plug in, turn on, and just connect gadgets and tv's with. The advertising for every solution on the market is baffling to the average user. Even for an advanced user, very misleading in the best of cases.
The best way I can describe Peplink is: it's not an end all be all solution. It is a hardware investment that serves as a foundation, giving the user that uniform turn on and connect to experience. You still have to subscribe and connect your desired internet gateway(s) to complete the package (and this is also your ongoing expense). Where it shines is that you can make it as robust as your budget allows, and have the control to adjust that as your needs change.
I use a 4G Peplink Mini (2xsim + 2xRJ45 + wifi5). I connect to campground wifi as primary, and have a Verizon sim for backup. If wifi fails, it drops to Verizon until wifi comes back. I spend $40 a month for the VZW data plan, and sometimes a small fee to access campground wifi in some places. Cheap, works ok for my needs, just not enough for 4k tv, video conferences, etc.
The particular Peplink I'm using is also at the cheap end. It's 4G only. I bought a new old stock one off eBay, and added the extended feature license (one time fee) for a total of $265 all in. Since it's 4G, I have it patched into the Winegard 360+ rooftop antenna my camper came with.
They offer 5G models for a lot more money. Those require a 5G antenna, so that's another upgrade and cost. If you need big speed, that's what it takes. Fortunately I don't need that, so far LOL.
Peplink has a bonding feature that would cost most users less than $5 a month. It merges the available internet connections to offer a more stable connection for streaming and video for example. I would use it if I needed to be on Zoom calls. I still don't need mega bandwidth, and the bonding would prevent signal drops. On mine, it would use and balance both campground wifi and VZW at the same time to give me a much more stable connection. Truth be told, I have not had any problem using one or the other, so never have configured this feature. I'm sure the time will come, eventually.
If I needed speed and/or a more bullet proof option, I'd subscribe to Starlink and patch it into one of my wired ports. Adding it to the mix of options. Or if traveling somewhere Verizon doesn't cover, consider getting an AT&T or T-mobile sim since I have an extra slot for it. I hear more positive reports from T-moble users over AT&T, so that's probably what I'd get if I did this. Any change like this would be invisible to my devices. TV, phone, laptop will still connect to the same wifi access as always. Seamless. The only change would be how that data gets to/from the internet, behind the scenes.
You don't need to be a tech genius to set it up. Mobilemusthave offers config service for a small fee. If you have smart grandkids, they can probably do it for free. It's not brain surgery, but you do need moderate tech aptitude to figure it out. If you're willing to endure that, you'll have a much more consistently working internet system to use.
Edit to add: I also have my Peplink powered off 12V. It's on all the time, even when parked in storage or going down the road. Last trip out, my wife had some laptop work she needed to do using a VPN to her office. It worked flawlessly on VZW going down the road. Right now the camper is sitting in storage, connected to wifi that the host offers. I can see how hot it is inside. Or, my usual habit is to run out the day before a trip with the bikes and some linens, and turn on the fridge while I'm in there (plugged into a 120V 15A post). i can verify remotely that the fridge is cooling down and ready when we head out with perishables the next morning. Checked it just now - it was a little warm today. Only a small dehumidifier is running in there while in storage.
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jymbee
Well-known member
How better?
A roof mounted antennae on the roof will help but how is the system you describe an improvement from just connecting an external antennae to something like a Verizon hotspot?
RedForeman
Well-known member
I'm not who you quoted, but here's my take.How better?
A hotspot will only connect to it's own cellular network. A connection to an external antenna is not even possible on half the hotspot models, and use oddball terminals on the ones that do. It's not easy to set up, nor is it neat to do so. The wifi processing capability of a hotspot is another limitation. They just don't handle multiple, concurrent connections very well. Sometimes the slowness is just that. The wifi is the bottleneck, not the cellular network.
All the Peplink models have robust wifi capability. That will never be the bottleneck. They are capable of connecting to more than one internet gateway. They also can bond multiple gateways. That is, use more than one cellular or satellite network at the same time.
Mine is set up cheap and low end. Campground wifi primary and Verizon 2nd priority. If camp wifi fails, it automatically fails over to VZW (bonding is not enabled). When wifi comes back, that switches back on and VZW goes back to standby. I'm paying $40/mo for the VZW sim (same as I would for a hotspot), and maybe a fee for camp wifi at some places if I choose to do that. Usually I'll do it since camp wifi usually has no data cap, only a speed cap.
If that wasn't enough, I can add another sim on a different cellular network. Or I could add a Starlink connection. In any case, I could also enable bonding for a small fee and use all available connections at the same time for more stability. Or do all of that. The only limit is how many services I can afford to subscribe to. If I needed it for business, that would be more easily rationalized. My current situation doesn't support that sort of expense, so I don't.
jymbee
Well-known member
Thanks for the detailed information.
I did look around a bit at the Peplink site and along with your description and their site info, I have a better understanding of the features of their systems.
If Internet access is mission critical, being able to seamless switch between cell, satellite, and wifi might well be the best option.
For our next 4 month winter outing I'm considering adding Starlink along with our current Visible phone.
In 5 years of travel, given we stay almost exclusively in public parks (State, County e.g.) and COE sites, I've never found the Wi-Fi at any of those locations usable for the most part. That includes a park in NOLA where out site was just feet from their antenna. I assume however that various private parks might have decent wifi.
jymbee
Well-known member
Interesting. I'm getting close to getting a Starlink system and the only thing holding me back is the performance at locations with limited exposure to the sky. We've been at a few parks where we couldn't even connect our Dish Sat system to either West of East arcs.
I read where some claim you need a larger portion of open sky for Starllink to be usable and others say it works just fine about everywhere short of inside a tunnel.
Your observations/comments are making it even more likely that our bank account balance will be a few hundred bucks lower soon.
Question: I understand they have different systems including stationary and fixed. Even though the mobile system is designed for travel, I assume there's no reason you can't use it at home when not traveling, even though it would cost a bit more per month?
RedForeman
Well-known member
Your use case detail helps a lot.
I agree with what you're seeing for camp wifi at those locations. I stayed at a couple state parks this year where there wasn't any wifi. They just don't offer it. The best, and by that I don't mean fastest, just consistent wifi, were the ones that outsource their wifi and you pay a fee to use it. Resorts that offer wifi included tend to be decent, until they get busy on a weekend and everyone is on it.
If I were configuring my Peplink for your use case, I would add Starlink as primary and make sure I got a site with clear sky to the north for best possible reception. I would add at least one sim from either Verizon or T-mobile to use as a backup. Size of the data plan would be dependent on how likely I could get a clear sky campsite.
You didn't say how critical your connection is. If you're just doing email and streaming tv, you probably wouldn't need bonding enabled. A simple fail-over would do. If you did zoom calls and the like, you can get allotments of that starting at $20 for 500MB over 6 months. More and longer expiry for more $$. Plus, you can enable/disable that as needed to conserve if you aren't needing it all the time.
If that still leaves you uncertain, Google mobilemusthave and talk it over with them for a recommendation and options. IMO the packages they offer seem to be overkill for most, but understandable due to the expectations most of their customers may have. Easier to oversell and never hear a complaint, versus not quite enough and an unhappy customer.
RedForeman
Well-known member
To be clear, the bonding feature SpeedLink combines available internet sources for simultaneous use. No switching. All of them all the time. You can tweak the settings to make it favor one over the other, but everything I've read says it's better to let the system do the thinking for you.
Not using that feature means they are in use one at a time, set by priority. If you set two or more at the same priority they will switch over, but stay that way until the one in use fails and causes it to switch again. In either case, any streams would be interrupted for a moment from the failure until the next connection is established an running. Less than a second usually. For video calls, the thing that jacks them up is your IP appearance changes when set up this way. On the other hand, streaming Youtube videos that isn't an issue. That is, unless the failover takes longer than an instant to connect and start passing bits.
The way I'm set up (wifi/VZW) I haven't been anywhere where I've noticed any drops. I know it's switched infrequently, but it's been seamless. If I was on zoom calls 8 hours a day I might notice it more. But I don't do that. Streaming on 2 HD tv's, my laptop, and some temp monitors. None of that requires bonding, so far.
RedForeman
Well-known member
I'm not a subscriber yet myself, but have studied this.
There are two key differences.
The stationary plan costs less and has higher priority data. The downside is: you have to update your zip code every time you move, and it won't be useable in motion. It also cannot be paused to save money when you aren't using it.
The mobile plan costs more and has standard priority data. You don't have to update your location, and if you mounted it on the roof you could use it going down the road. If you're not going to use it for a while, you can pause the subscription and not pay $150 a month to have it sit in storage.
Separately, all the reports I've seen say that less ideal clear sky and antenna orientation isn't a deal breaker. It just reduces the number of satellites available for use, with the consequence of lower data speed and quality. For example in the mobile setup I mentioned. Obviously the best orientation would be straight up, flat on the roof. It won't always have the best view of the satellite constellation, and still be affected by tree cover and weather. That is, versus set up at a campsite where you can use the app to guide you with adjusting the tilt angle and orientation for the best connection.
Getting back to my remarks about 4G service on the Peplink.. "slower data" in Starlink terms will often be better than a moderately good cellular connection. Unless you're watching 4K content on multiple tv's, or uploading video files to your Youtube channel, you can likely have a satisfactory internet experience with even a crappy Starlink connection.
Sunnyfalls
Well-known member
When we were initially testing Starlink about 4 years ago (we consulted with SpaceX and helped them develop their rocket control systems), trees were indeed an issue because there were only a couple hundred satellites in orbit.Interesting. I'm getting close to getting a Starlink system and the only thing holding me back is the performance at locations with limited exposure to the sky. We've been at a few parks where we couldn't even connect our Dish Sat system to either West of East arcs.
I read where some claim you need a larger portion of open sky for Starllink to be usable and others say it works just fine about everywhere short of inside a tunnel.
Your observations/comments are making it even more likely that our bank account balance will be a few hundred bucks lower soon.
Question: I understand they have different systems including stationary and fixed. Even though the mobile system is designed for travel, I assume there's no reason you can't use it at home when not traveling, even though it would cost a bit more per month?
Lack of satellites and satellites only being in a fixed location is why every other satellite system still has this issue...they only have a couple geostationary satellites in high altitude orbits (which also results in high latency making gaming problematic too).
Starlink has close to 10,000 satellites in continouos motion, low altitude orbits now and plans to have at least 40,000 satellites in orbit within a couple years. And unlike other companies, SpaceX can launch satellites for about 1/10 cost of any other launch service. Anyhow, these days you only need to see a tiny portion of the sky for Starlink to work well. We use a telescoping mast (more details on this can be found in our Casita trailer writeup link). If we have excessive tree coverage over our Casita trailer (which is often the case as we keep our trailer in the shade in hot weather if possible...and we place/keep our portable solar panel suitcase in full sun), we just place the dish thru most of tree cover and Starlink still works well. Obviously, it is still best to give the dish as much sky aperture as possible, primarily for video conferencing where buffering doesn’t adequately address a short dropout. Streaming, surfing, emailing and texting isn't affected by short dropouts. We don't game, but latency has bee5n between 20-25 ms. Speeds have aways been at least 150 down and 50 up and often twice that in recent years, but we are always remote and speeds in congested big cities are reportedly lower.
We use the Starlink roaming plan for our Casita trailer. We have no need for Internet when we are in motion while traveling from place to place. We use the Starlink residential plan for our remote Oregon home. Since we spend 100% of our home life and at least 70% of our RV life where cell towers can't live, Starlink has been truly life changing for us.
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Part of how it's better is that it transmits a more powerful signal to the cell site than a hotspot or phone. It doesn't matter how much signal you receive if the site can't hear you. I've used an ATT hotspot, a Verizon hotspot and the Peplink Max Transit with the same antennae at the same locations and got far more throughput with more signal strength and less noise with the Peplink.How better?
Also I do voip with the phones so I can make calls via the Peplink while the phones have no usable cell signal.
jymbee
Well-known member
I believe there's a requirement to "check in" from your home location at certain intervals with the remote?
But that gets into their mobile system which costs quite a bit more
Definitely a plus for RVers
Good point. I see folks complain about slow speeds but when you look at their download speed, it's apt to be multiple times faster than cell data!
RedForeman
Well-known member
The reports I've seen is that you have to update your "home address" each time you stop. They also say there is no limit to how many times you can do this. Seems like too much hassle to me, but I understand there are people that will do anything to save a dollar.
The address changing concern I'm sure comes from many of the streaming services doing the same. Back when I had Hulu, I couldn't even use it on my phone on 5G without resetting my home network location. You were only allowed to do that once or twice a year, and it would break any connections that remained at your real home location. I get around that with a VPN server, but that's an extra step and I'm lazy. I cancelled Hulu when it got too expensive and solved the home location connection problem for good LOL.
