Is it finally time?

[kdbgoat]

https://electrek.co/2018/06/29/tesla-electric-motorhome-design-tesla-semi/amp/

 

[Seilerbird]

No it is not time yet. The infrastructure is not in place. Not many campgrounds and RV parks have enough electrical capacity to have many RVs charging at once. And there is not enough "gas stations" built yet to handle the traffic. It is a great idea but at least ten years too early.

 

[KandT-THOR]

Yes it's time BUT all those cars, Trucks and Semis should be replaced by the comparably few RV's on the road first.  It boggles my mind the number of engines we have running at any one second in this country from coast to coast in each and every state!

 

[UTTransplant]

There is a fundamental issue of how we maintain the roads without gasoline and diesel taxes. Many of those with EVs get irate if they are asked to pay an additional tax to cover their usage of roads, but governments will need to have some way to recover those costs.

 

[NY_Dutch]

I don't think electric vehicles will be fully embraced by the public until they have a similar range and ease of "refueling" as current IC powered vehicles.

 

[Memtb]

  Until we?re charging all those electric vehicles with electricity produced by hydro, solar, wind, and nuclear.... we will still be using hydrocarbons to produce the electricity. Then there?s the additional materials and industry to produce the batteries. And finally the cost, both in energy (produced by what method) and the expense of safe invironmentally friendly methods to recycle all of these batteries. Until then......I?m a ?bit? skeptical!

 

[Seilerbird]

Only a small percent of road taxes come from gasoline sales. Electric cars won't have much effect on that.

 

[darsben]

Only a small percent of road taxes come from gasoline sales. Electric cars won't have much effect on that.

I beg to differ (slightly) for Example gross tax on gasoline sold in Arizona is more than 37 cents per gallon and for the last year I can find statistics
58 million gallons of gas were sold in Arizona.  Total tax collected was  $21,460,000 now not ALL of that is earmarked for road repair/construction ; as that source of revenue dries up the government will be forced to find other ways of getting the 21 million out of our pockets. It matters not what the money was earmarked for it will come out of our pocket someway..

 

[Gary RV_Wizard]

I beg to differ (slightly) for Example gross tax on gasoline sold in Arizona is more than 37 cents per gallon and for the last year I can find statistics
58 million gallons of gas were sold in Arizona.  Total tax collected was  $21,460,000 now not ALL of that is earmarked for road

$21M hardly buys one 4-lane highway bridge. Less than 10 miles of a paved rural 2-lane road and under 3 miles in urban areas..

 

[Gary RV_Wizard]

Winnebago is in a partnership with Electrec that is already producing electric motorcoaches, but only for commercial use in metro areas where it can return to a garage each evening for charging.  Mobile medical facilities, blood mobiles, that sort of thing.


https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2018/05/09/winnebago-drives-toward-electric-powered-motorhome/592446002/
https://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/money/business/2018/05/04/winnebago-rv-electric-zero-emissions-bloodmobiles-iowa-electric-cars/580483002/

 

[KandT-THOR]

  Until we?re charging all those electric vehicles with electricity produced by hydro, solar, wind, and nuclear.... we will still be using hydrocarbons to produce the electricity. Then there?s the additional materials and industry to produce the batteries. And finally the cost, both in energy (produced by what method) and the expense of safe invironmentally friendly methods to recycle all of these batteries. Until then......I?m a ?bit? skeptical!

Very much agree!  Fortunately, Solar and wind are going up at record pace here and even more around the world.  In fact the USA is trailing much of the world in sustainable energy.  We have millions of rooftops that could have panels or solar shingles on them.  Batteries are getting better and better and just a few years ago EV's had a 75 mile range and now Tesla regularly makes 300+ mile range vehicles.  A friend just installed 44Kw of solar (a lot) at his home and said the payback is 7 years - Not bad at all!  Way better than it used to be.  Panel prices are coming down.  Even skeptics are coming around!  This is a slam dunk!

It's time to put a muscle behind these wonderful technologies.  Sure I like my diesel but I would LOVE knowing I was traveling down the road powered by the sun.  No exhaust for anyone to breathe.  Electric motors last a very long time.  Oh I sure would miss those oil changes though

 

[KandT-THOR]

No it is not time yet. The infrastructure is not in place. Not many campgrounds and RV parks have enough electrical capacity to have many RVs charging at once. And there is not enough "gas stations" built yet to handle the traffic. It is a great idea but at least ten years too early.

That's kinda the chicken or egg problem!  We need both to grow at the same time.

 

[Ghostman]

I seen the Winnebago. There range is not very far as Gary mentioned it is being used in commercial applications such as medical field

 

[darsben]

$21M hardly buys one 4-lane highway bridge. Less than 10 miles of a paved rural 2-lane road and under 3 miles in urban areas..

Times 50 states is about a billion dollars. The point is the money will have to made up somewhere and if the government needs to make up one dollar worth of decrease you can  bet they will tax two dollars.
It does not matter what it buys it matters that the money has to be made up as gas sales decrease.

 

[garyb1st]

There is a fundamental issue of how we maintain the roads without gasoline and diesel taxes. Many of those with EVs get irate if they are asked to pay an additional tax to cover their usage of roads, but governments will need to have some way to recover those costs.

Our California taxes are the highest in the country.  Check out our roads.  Not sure where the money goes, but IMHO not much finds it's way to our decaying highways. 

 

[garyb1st]

I beg to differ (slightly) for Example gross tax on gasoline sold in Arizona is more than 37 cents per gallon and for the last year I can find statistics
58 million gallons of gas were sold in Arizona.  Total tax collected was  $21,460,000 now not ALL of that is earmarked for road repair/construction ; as that source of revenue dries up the government will be forced to find other ways of getting the 21 million out of our pockets. It matters not what the money was earmarked for it will come out of our pocket someway..

Not sure where you get your info but Arizona has about 7 million people.  58 million gallons decided by 7 million people is 8+ gallons of gas each.  Family of four = 32 gallons of gas.  Maybe per week.  Certainly not per year. 

 

[Larry N.]

Not sure where you get your info but Arizona has about 7 million people.  58 million gallons decided by 7 million people is 8+ gallons of gas each.  Family of four = 32 gallons of gas.  Maybe per week.  Certainly not per year.

I wonder a bit about your numbers, Gary -- not the math, but the expectation of 8+ gal/week. There are two of us and, except when on the road in the motorhome (and that's in multiple states), we don't use much over 16 gallons a month. Granted that people commuting use more, but many kids are too young to drive, so 8 gals. a week per person seems a bit high, to me. Then add in the tremendous amount that tourists use...

Still, I've not seen official figures (official speculation?) for that kind of stat.

Later: It just now occurred to me that maybe it's the tourists that bring it up that high.

 

[Seilerbird]

I beg to differ (slightly) for Example gross tax on gasoline sold in Arizona is more than 37 cents per gallon and for the last year I can find statistics
58 million gallons of gas were sold in Arizona.  Total tax collected was  $21,460,000 now not ALL of that is earmarked for road repair/construction ; as that source of revenue dries up the government will be forced to find other ways of getting the 21 million out of our pockets. It matters not what the money was earmarked for it will come out of our pocket someway..

Many Americans believe that drivers pay the full cost of the roads they use through gas taxes and other user fees. That has never been true, and it is less true now than at any other point in modern times.

Today, general taxes paid by all taxpayers cover nearly as much of the cost of building and maintaining highways as the gas tax and other fees paid by drivers. The purchasing power of gasoline taxes has declined as a result of inflation, improved vehicle fuel economy, and the recent stagnation in driving. As a result, so-called ?user fees? cover a shrinking share of transportation costs.

The time has come for policy-makers to recognize something that has been true for years, but is especially true today: we all pay for America?s roads.

 

[garyb1st]

Larry, Ive been retired for 14 years but haven't quit living.  We frequently go out and just drive.  Based on the number of folks on the highways, on weekends, we're not alone.  Both our Jeep and the Infiniti are not fuel efficient, so we use more than a Honda.  But we drive about 10,000 miles a year between the two vehicles.  And at 15 mpg, we use 12 gallons a week on average.  There's 2 of us so 6 gallons a week each on average.  Maybe the 8 gallons estimate per week is high, but we're retired and don't commute.  When I was working, 25 miles round trip, I would go through a tank and a half per week minimum.  That would be 30 gallons.

But even if it were only 16 gallons a month per your usage, that's 192 gallons a year.  Multiply that times 2.5 Million (assuming 3 people per family) remember AZ has many retirees and that's 480 million gallons.  At $.37 a gallon, that's $1,776,000,000 in tax. 

 

[darsben]

http://www.statemaster.com/graph/ene_gas_con-energy-gasoline-consumption

Here is where I got the figures they are old but if gasoline consumption increases then tax collected must increase making the shortfall for declining gas sales more severe in the future. The question is how do we make up for the shortfall.
Electric vehicles are still polluting just as diesel and gas do, BUT the point of pollution is shifted from the vehicle to the power company.
How do we get electric vehicle owners to help make up the share lost income (taxes).
The money has to come from somewhere