Levels check all showing full or near full

[Fishin_Fool]

I have a 2007 Winnie Outlook 31. I've noticed when I do a levels check on the main control panel, all tanks, including LP show full or 3/4 full. LP tank gauge shows half full. When gray/black/fresh tanks are empty, they still show full. I did the best troubleshooting I could by unplugging and then checking for empty indication, which works. The tanks sensors on all tanks are the stick on outside and not through tank. I'm not sure if these are still made or what the problem would be with ALL tanks showing full. I've looked into replacing existing sensors with more accurate ones, but the control panel is not a direct replacement with the one that comes with the new style system. Any ideas on what's causing these tanks to show full when they are clearly not? Any help/troubleshooting would be appreciated.

 

[RayIN]

Two things; first use a good cleaner to remove the gunk off the tank sidewalls(gray/black).
Then, some brands of level indicators have an adjustable pot on the back to adjust sensitivity.

 

[Fishin_Fool]

I've tried the "bag of ice in the black tank" trick. No help. Not sure how to clean the gray tank. I can also see the fresh tank levels and they are nowhere near what the control panel says. Shows 3/4 or full even when drained completely. I'm not sure how these sensors work. They are glued or stuck on the sides of the tanks and are wired in series. Every time we go out, I just "guesstimate" the levels in the tanks and partially drain at some point during our stays if it's more than a couple of days.

 

[John From Detroit]

On the fresh tank Sanatize I'd do it twice. those sensors should not fault that way.
On the waste tanks.. The only thing I've ever found effective on the black tank (this wont' work on gray) is a home made version of the Valterra Master Blaster and then only sometimes.
The real item has a nozzle I fear would break off so I made mine with a piece of PVC capped it drilled a hole (I think it was 7/64th inch but "Close to 1/4 inch" (it was the bit I grabbed not criticle) and a proper fitting on the top end. a vacuum breaker and valve and "Aim" it at teh sensor wall. twise push down pull up a bit and blast those suckers clean.

Still nto 100 % but it did help.

 

[John Canfield]

I'm amazed your Winnie tank level indicators have lasted this long. If you are going to keep your Outlook and want a fun DIY project, install the Garnet "SeeLevel" tank level monitor. I documented the project in my Horizon project link (signature.)

 

[old RV guy]

I've read where the MOPEKA devices will work on the Gray and Black tanks, but have not tried it. I have one on the propane tank, it's extremely accurate.

 

[Gary RV_Wizard]

The tanks sensors on all tanks are the stick on outside and not through tank.

I don't think those were original on an '07 Outlook. What brand? Garnet See-Level is the premiere brand, but there are others.

Even the exterior sensors can get fooled by slime on the tank walls, but it's rare for the fresh tank to suffer from that. For the waste tanks, I've found it effective to fill them with fresh water and add a healthy dose of a bacterial septic system cleaner such as Roebic K57 or Rid-X and let it stew for 2-3 days. Give the little microbes plenty of time to digest the slime. Then dump & rinse. You can do this at home as long as the tanks were empty of actual waste water before you start. No worries about dumping the treated fresh water on the lawn (but your neighbors may get alarmed if they see you doing it).

 

[Fishin_Fool]

I don't think those were original on an '07 Outlook. What brand? Garnet See-Level is the premiere brand, but there are others.

Even the exterior sensors can get fooled by slime on the tank walls, but it's rare for the fresh tank to suffer from that. For the waste tanks, I've found it effective to fill them with fresh water and add a healthy dose of a bacterial septic system cleaner such as Roebic K57 or Rid-X and let it stew for 2-3 days. Give the little microbes plenty of time to digest the slime. Then dump & rinse. You can do this at home as long as the tanks were empty of actual waste water before you start. No worries about dumping the treated fresh water on the lawn (but your neighbors may get alarmed if they see you doing it).

Those sensors are original for my 07 Outlook. I haven't changed or modified anything with any sensors. I've looked into the See-level sensors, however, the control panel for the sensors is not fully compatible as a direct replacement of the original. The control panel for my Outlook has all the levels, generator start/stop/timer and battery charge level. The last I checked, the see-level control panels don't have this all in one feature. I guess, if I can't find a solution and just go by "feel", that is what I'll have to do. This has been a little frustrating. I might try to do as good a clean as I can with the fresh tank and then try your suggestion with the black tank. Thanks for the info.

 

[CharlesinGA]

Not sure which model 31 Outlook you have (there are two), but the wiring diagrams may help.

• Outlook (300)
  • WF325F
  • WF327L
  • WF329B
  • WF331C
  • WF331H

Charles

 

[John Canfield]

I don't think those were original on an '07 Outlook. What brand? Garnet See-Level is the premiere brand, but there are others.
......

Winnie switched to external tank sensors about the 2004-5 model year. Our 2005 Horizon had the external sensors.

 

[Mark_K5LXP]

My '05 itasca has the external tank sensors. They work as advertised. A clue that leads me to believe it's not the sensors is multiple systems are having issues. One might expect one tank or another to start going wonky from a bad sensor or tank gunk but not all three at once, along with a totally separate and different form of sensor from the LP tank. My bet is something's up with the indicator panel or something common to it. Flush the tanks all you like but I'd bet that's not it.

Mark B.
Albuquerque, NM

 

[Gary RV_Wizard]

Winnie switched to external tank sensors about the 2004-5 model year. Our 2005 Horizon had the external sensors.

Thanks for that info, John. I thought it was later than that. I note that you changed yours to Garnet fairly early. Presumably you had problems with the OEM sensors as well?

 

[John Canfield]

Our tank sensors were starting to give trouble after maybe five years, they are very dependent on the cleanliness of the tank walls. Even when they were working, the 1/3rd resolution did not meet our requirements for boondocking. Every gallon of fresh water was important and we needed to know with +- two gallon resolution. The Garnet SeeLevel system worked extremely well, I should have installed it when the coach was brand new.

 

[Fishin_Fool]

Forgot to update this. Problem fixed and the root cause was surprising. I took a long break from the troubleshooting of this problem due to frustration. I went back to it determined to find the root cause. I started turning breakers off one at a time and checking the sensor levels on the control panel. I got to the last one, which was the converter/input power and all of a sudden, they read normal. I didn't exactly know what the problem was so I ended up calling Camping World and spoke with one of their techs. He asked me to check the output of the converter. So, I did. It was 12.3V, which I thought was normal. He said it should be 13.7, so, he told me to check the converter output with my meter on the AC setting. He said it should be 0VAC. It was 4VAC. He said that's your problem. You have AC ripple on a normally flat DC output. Your converter is bad. He asked what size the converter was. It was 45A. He said that seemed a bit small and probably failed due to that reason. He recommended replacing it with a 55 or 65A version. So, I ordered a 55A and with about an hours worth of work, I had the replacement installed. Turned on the power and checked the output. 13.8VDC and 0VAC. I then checked the levels and everything was reading correctly. Another funky symptom was the thermostat was not turning on the AC immediately, if at all. After the converter swap, everything is back to operating normally. I'm very good at troubleshooting most electrical and some mechanical problems, but, this one had me stumped for a long time.

 

[John Canfield]

That tech knew what he was talking about, well done!