Motorhome towing questions from a newbie

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nmorgan

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First post here! I'm hoping to get some experienced RV'ers help here. Brand new to the lifestyle... well, almost. Wife, daughter, and I have our eyes on a new Entegra Emblem 36H (gas) and want to flat tow our 4,900 lb Jeep Wrangler. Here are the specs that I have... the question is "Am I asking for trouble towing the Jeep?"

GVWR = 24,000
GCWR = 30,000
Hitch Rating = 5,000
UVW (includes full gas and full propane) = 20,788 - called the manufacturer for this number

Here's my math:
GVW = 20,788 + 600 (water weight at 72 gal * 8.34 lbs/gal) + 500 (passenger weight) + 4900 (Jeep weight at scales) = 26,788 not factoring in gear
With a GCWR of 30,000, we have 3,212 lbs (30,000 - 26,788) left over for gear. This seems like plenty.

Tongue rating is 500 lbs, but with a flat tow, that shouldn't be an issue. What am I not thinking about?
 
You are talking about a max size gas motorhome, towing a near max weight tow car, it might be ok in flat lands, but if you are going to be doing much mountain driving out west, it may not be the best option.
 
Hi, I just wanted to pop in and say welcome to the RV forum that features many RV gurus to help us figure out anything to do with RVs.
 
GVW = 20,788 + 600 (water weight at 72 gal * 8.34 lbs/gal) + 500 (passenger weight)

You have a misconception, I think. Total above = 21,888 -- this is your GVW (Gross Vehicle Weight). The Jeep isn't part of that. It's better to get the actual weight at the scales. But either way, adding the Jeep's weight brings up the GCVW (Gross Combined Vehicle Weight) to get the 26,888 figure. The leftover available weight is 24,000 (Max GVW) minus 21,888 == 2112 lbs 'til max allowed GVW. That 3212 figure would be for combined, but adding that to the 21,888 gets 25,100, which puts you 1100 lbs over the max allowed GVW for your coach. You could put 100 lbs in the Jeep if you wish, to bring it up to 5,000 even.

While the above is within the rated limits, you probably wouldn't be extra happy going up long, steep hills, and especially in higher mountains where the engine power is less with altitude. And I've never been fond of loading things to max, since that leaves no margins at all.

So as Ike says, think about the more extreme situations and what that might do to performance and longevity of the vehicle when you stress it to the max allowed. Also, when you're getting close to the max, it's generally best to deal with actual (measured) weight, rather than a factory figure which may not include everything that's on there, even before you put in water and people.
 
As Larry says, you have misconception about the meaning of the weights.

The 30,000 lb GCWR is the max for the coach plus whatever may be towed behind it. If the coach were loaded to its 24,000 lb max (GVWR), it could still tow 6000 lbs of car.

Don't count the car toward the GVWR max - the coach doesn't carry the toad at all, so its not part of the cargo weight. As long as you don't exceed the 24,000 GVWR when you load water, people and gear in/on the coach, you are good to go and still have 6000 left for towing. That doesn't mean you will enjoy the performance on hills or when braking, but the coach will get the job done.
 
Nobody has mentioned brakes. Some states require brakes. I like even when the law doesn't say I need to have them.

Matt
 
Thanks for all the great feedback. You are right about my math above. GVW should not include the toad.

As you all have mentioned, we're pushing the limits and things change both with altitude and slope. Driving through the mountains will be a stretch with the Jeep connected. Probably a good idea to disconnect and ask the Mrs. to drive the Jeep until we get to up the mountain.

Now... braking is a great point that I had not thought of before. Do you know if the 7-pin connector actually triggers the brakes in the Jeep Wrangler when it's being towed? It's one thing to get up the mountain, but we also have to safely make it down the mountain as well. :)
 
You will need a braking system installed on your Jeep, along with brake lights, and either a base plate or a towing bumper, plus a compatible tow bar. You don't say what model year Wrangler you have, I think recent model Wranglers come with wiring provisions for brake light connection, which makes it much easier than most other cars.

Braking systems can either be drop in units, like the one I have Roadmaster 9400 Even Brake, or similar systems, ie RVI Brake 3, Brake Buddy, Patriot Brake, etc. Or integrated hidden units, like the Stay IN Play Duo, or Road Master Invisibrake. Drop in units are easier to transplant from car to car, though most need some custom wiring for things like brake away switch, brake pedal switch sensor, etc. (varies with models and features), where integrated systems require more labor intense installation, and customization.

Here is a video that you may find helpful

p.s. here is one for the 2020 Wrangler
 
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You will need a braking system installed on your Jeep, along with brake lights, and either a base plate or a towing bumper, plus a compatible tow bar. You don't say what model year Wrangler you have, I think recent model Wranglers come with wiring provisions for brake light connection, which makes it much easier than most other cars.

Braking systems can either be drop in units, like the one I have Roadmaster 9400 Even Brake, or similar systems, ie RVI Brake 3, Brake Buddy, Patriot Brake, etc. Or integrated hidden units, like the Stay IN Play Duo, or Road Master Invisibrake. Drop in units are easier to transplant from car to car, though most need some custom wiring for things like brake away switch, brake pedal switch sensor, etc. (varies with models and features), where integrated systems require more labor intense installation, and customization.

Here is a video that you may find helpful
Thanks, Isaac! Great information! I have a 2015 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited (JKU). I'm assuming the dealer should be able to wire in what is needed...? Or is there a better alternative? We're going to be keeping this Jeep for many, many years / miles (only 50K on it now and have customized the-heck out of it).
 
I am not sure the Jeep dealer would be the best choice, unless they tend to also be a customization shop which installs aftermarket bumpers, and the like. Even then if you go with an integrated braking system I would want to get it done by someone with experience installing them.
 
Jeep dealers and RV dealers are two possible places to get all the work done needed for towing, but not all Jeep dealers (or RV dealers) are equal, so it might be good to do a little local checking. If you plan to do much off-roading with that Jeep, note carefully where they place the breakaway brake connector and the 7-pin connector (6 on the Jeep) -- on my '15 Wrangler the dealer put them under the bumper on bottom of the base plate bar that has the tow bar attach points, such that steep slopes that scrape in front actually damaged the connectors.
 
Actually 5,000, due to the hitch limitations, though it is 6,000 to reach the GCWR.

Probably true. He didn't mention the hitch receiver rating, but the 500 lb tongue weight suggests its a 5000 lb receiver. *** Addendum: A quick check of the Entegra web page shows there is indeed a 5000 lb receiver max, so that's his max tow capability even though the chassis GCWR is greater.
 
I'd be careful with that Jeep weight. My Rubicon scaled at 6,000 lb with only usual stuff (did have a winch bumper). I doubt a 4 dr. set op with usual stuff will be much lighter. Remember, that 4,900 lb does not include anything you may have added.

Ernie
 
I took my Wrangler to the Cat scales the other day. It came in at 5,300 lbs. I deducted 200 lbs for my fat butt, hard top plus roof rack estimating at another 100 lbs (we'll have soft top when trailering), and then all of my easily removable gear are easily 100 lbs (stuffed to the gills). So that's how I'm getting the 4,900 lbs.

I'm surprised, Ernie, that your Rubicon is 6,000 lbs because I have a winch & bumper and running 35" tires.

Thanks to everyone here for their excellent guidance. I feel better that we're going into this eyes wide open and will see how it goes locally in the flat IL terrain before trying anything out west or east. Worst case scenario is that we pick up a smaller used SUV and go with that.
 
My 1st RV was a 28' TT I pulled with an E150 conversion van with the 351 engine. Set up was within spec but even with the equalizer hitch the set up would sway when passed by a big rig. Any speed over 65 mph felt unsafe. I changed to an F250 crew cab 4WD diesel and the difference was extreme. No more equalizing hitch, no more sway, and I could cruise as fast as I wanted without ever feeling I was going too fast.

I offer all this just to make the point that towing at the rated capacity of the tow vehicle is no fun. My suggestion to you is to find a lighter toad or a bigger RV if you really want to keep the jeep.
 
Braking systems can either be drop in units, like the one I have Roadmaster 9400 Even Brake, or similar systems, ie RVI Brake 3, Brake Buddy, Patriot Brake, etc. Or integrated hidden units, like the Stay IN Play Duo, or Road Master Invisibrake. Drop in units are easier to transplant from car to car, though most need some custom wiring for things like brake away switch, brake pedal switch sensor, etc. (varies with models and features), where integrated systems require more labor intense installation, and customization.
Another toad braking system is the Ready Brake from NSA. It's a surge brake, when the toad presses against the towbar a cable pulls on the toad's brake pedal. It's available either integrated into their Ready Brute tow bar or as an add-on if you already have a tow bar. The Ready Brake is considerably less expensive than the others and is minimally intrusive on the towed vehicle, there's only a single cable running from the brake pedal to the actuator on tne hitch.
 

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