need advice on generators

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Jeff H.

Member
Joined
Dec 8, 2012
Posts
6
New user here...Jeff. Have had a tent trailer now for a few years but now my wife and I are considering going on extended trips where we might not have electricity. I am here asking for advice on what to buy as a small generator to power the water pump and heater (if needed). I am finding that my battery doesn't cut it for more than a day. Also, once I have purchased a generator (please be patient, as I know little about them), what else do I need to know about generators to use them safely.

Thanks for your help.
 
You will want a generator of around 2000kw. You will also want it to be fairly quiet, which means that it should be an inverter type. The gold standard is the Honda, and that is what most people here will tell you to get.

However, Champion, Boliy, Kipor, Lifan, and several other manufacturers have generators with specs that are virtually identical to the Honda. The big difference is that they are aroumd half of the price.

Joel
 
It sounds like with the loads you are talking about a 1000K generator would suit your needs.  I am partial to the Honda's and Yamaha's, but get some opinions on the other models.  I have had Honda's and they are bullet proof. 
 
That would be a 1000 watt generator, not 1000 or 2000 kw. 2000 kw is 2 million watts!

A typical tent camper has a 15 or 20 amp shore power cord, so that sets the limit for its power consumption. 20 amps @ 120v = 2400 watts, so that's the  maximum power load. However, that provides power to a couple standard wall outlets too - the camper itself probably uses no more than about 250-300 watts to power its 12vdc components.  Sooo, the question becomes "Do you ever plug  120vac appliances into the camper's wall outlets?" Computer? Coffee pot? Hair dryer? If the answer is no, or you do without those things when dry-camping, then a 1000 watt inverter-type generator is plenty.  Honda & Yamaha make the best, e.g. the Honda eu1000i, but the others mentioned above will do fine too. But if you want to be able to use high wattage appliances like an electric coffee pot or a hair dryer, then you want a 2000-2400 watt model. Yamaha makes a nice 2400 watt unit that would be dandy.

http://www.electricgeneratorsdirect.com/Yamaha-EF2400ISHC-Portable-Generator/p4433.html
http://www.electricgeneratorsdirect.com/Honda-EU1000IKC-Portable-Generator/p6548.html
http://www.electricgeneratorsdirect.com/Generac-5792-Portable-Generator/p3427.html

As an alternative, why not just increase your battery size or carry an extra battery? And get a battery designed for deep cycle use rather than the usual car or marine type battery found in most small campers. With their limited power needs, a decent battery or two should easily last 3-4 days. A group 27 size deep cycle battery will provide about 35% more power than the Group 24 size you probably now have. And carrying a spare would double that again. If you have room, you could move up to a Group 29 size for even more power, or maybe fit in two 6v golf cart batteries, which should last you for several days.
 
Thanks everyone for the great advice and the friendliness with which it was delivered. It was just what I wanted and needed.

Gary: Thanks for the alternative advice. Something to consider.

Jeff
 
Hi Jeff... and welcome.

I don't know how important it is to you and your family while dry-camping, (it's important to us), but generator-noise is something else you might consider. Some portable generators are noisier than others (substantially noisier). A generator in an adjacent campsite, that growls away for hours on end, can ruin a neighbor's camping trip. Some of the cheaper two-stroke generators really put out some annoying DBs. The Hondas and Yamahas tend to be more expensive, but they also tend to be quieter and of higher quality, which, in my opinion, is well worth the added expense. Just my 2 cents.

Kev
 
Thanks, Kevin. Noise is important to us as well. We tend to camp mostly in Yellowstone and GTNP so we only plan to run the generator for short periods to take a shower and possibly to charge the battery we have so that we can use it to run the heater on cool mornings. We are also planning to travel this summer where we will be staying at Forest Service campgrounds or just out in the boonies.

I have spent a lot of time reading reviews on the internet. Yamaha and Honda consistently have high reviews. Not so for other brands. I'm thinking we'll buy one of those in the spring and have it ready to go for the summer and fall seasons. I have learned the hard way too many times that you get what you pay for.

Jeff
 
Jeff,
A note from someone who has done the tent thing, as well as a PUP, in the campground setting...
You already have a taste of how long a house battery will last under certain power demands.  Being concerned about noise, spend the money on a reputable 2000W inverter genny.  You won't be sorry.  Small, easy to handle, great on fuel, and will currently do what you are asking of it. 

BUT...
If you have any ideas of asking more out of the genny, consider something bigger.  The heater blower motor is a power hog.  It is very easy to over tax a genny not knowing the power requirements of what things you use in the RV without thinking about it.
 
we only plan to run the generator for short periods to take a shower and possibly to charge the battery we have so that we can use it to run the heater on cool mornings.

Many people have an unrealistic expectation about how long it takes to charge a battery. Even with a high output charger (and the one in your Pup probably has only a modest charge rate), a battery will accept only so many amps per hour and that rate drops as the charge builds up. You can probably bring the battery from 50% charge to 80% in 45-60 minutes, but it will likely take 2-3 hours more to achieve the last 20%.
 
For the OPs need, you don't run the generator to run the heater or pump, you run the generator to charge the battery and the battery runs those Items. Anything 110v will require the generator to be running while in use. (Tv, AC, hair dryer). If you want to run said things, get a 2000w genny, that way you can charge AND run other items at the same time. We like to run ours while cooking with a hot plate on cold mornings or running the AC in the afternoon.
In campgrounds that allow generators to be used, you usually have a set amount of time in the morning and in the evening. A run of a few hours a day should keep you battery up but make sure you give it a good full charge at home. It would take all day to fully charge your battery and it isn't practical to do that with the generator.
I never thought of PUPs as real power hungry RVs and you saying your battery isn't lasting a day is not good. How are you making sure it is charged before you go? Also how often has it been drawn completely down. Batteries don't like to be completely discharged, some it can ruin. Not charging them back up right away is a no-no too. You may need to have your battery tested. Our single grp 27 will last a weekend even with furnace use but we are pretty conservative with the power. End up replacing it and I agree with getting something bigger to give yourself some cushion between running the generator. I would also suggest getting some inexpensive ebay LEDs to replace your lights. They are under $5 each and use a 5th of the power.
A thing to know about generators is maintenance. They need there oil changed every 50 hrs and should be exercised once a month when not in use. I always run ours dry between trips so that the carb doesn't gum up and the gas stays fresh.
Last thing is even in CGs that allow generators to be used and using a so called quieter inverter type genny, you will find there are some that don't appreciate them. 50-60 DB is quieter than non inverter generators but it isn't silent. After listening to ours last year everyday I am glad we put together a simple portable solar set up. It will keep the battery up when the sun plays nice and the generator can be blissfully silent unless needed for back up or AC.

 
Jim,

Thanks for all the good advice. It's nice to know that I shouldn't run the generator to power the water pump or run the heater. I just assumed that I could (should). We don't plan on running anything else, like a TV or AC, maybe charge a cell phone as we like to stay in touch with our kids and my wife's parents.

I agree that maybe our present battery is not adequate or maybe I'm not using it appropriately. I charge it before each trip with a small trickle charger. The trickle charger doesn't have a dial on it that indicates if the battery is charged fully, so I am guessing. Sometimes I charge it for 8-10 hours at a time or even longer (over night). In the winter when the trailer is not being used, I take the battery out and place it in our crawl space where it remains fairly warm, and then reattach it in the spring when I get the trailer ready to go. It is never completely discharged.

Maybe you could describe your portable solar set up? I looked on-line for something like that, but they tend to be pretty pricey, and I wasn't sure they were what I needed.

Everyone...thanks again for all the feedback.
 
I suspect you mostly need a larger and better quality battery. For your usage, it should easily last 3 days and more like 5-7. A better charger might also help - 8 hours on a "trickle" charger isn't much - you should leave it on at least 24 hours and more if the battery is really low. Even a standard automotive charger (6-10 amps) would do better.  Also, have you checked the level of the water in the cells (or is it one of the so-called "maintenance free" types?).

Does your Pup have its own charger built in? Typically there is at least something to provide some dc from shore power, but I'm no longer very familiar with the various brands and models.
 
Jeff

I have to agree, 10 hours with a trickle charger isn't going to get your battery up to speed before a trip. There is a chart floating around that tells how long it take a charger with X amount of amps to truly recharge a battery. A trickle charger is on the bottom of that list and takes the better part of a week to do the job. They do a good job of keeping the battery up once charged, not so much getting it there.
At home I use a 2/12/70 amp auto charger. The battery goes on it as soon as we get home and I leave it on there a few days. Once fully charged the charger will act like a trickle charger so i don't have to worry about over charging. After that I connect it once a month for a day to keep it charged and a day before we leave to make sure it is fully charged for the trip. I think HF has them for $20 on sale.
Is your pup stored at home or can you bring it there a day before you leave? Plugging in the converter for a day will charge up your battery much better than the trickle charger will.
If you have a digital volt meter, measure across the post. A fully charged and rested battery should read 12.7 volts. Anything lower means it isn't fully charged OR if you have tried to charge it properly and it stills show lower, the constant under charging may have diminished it's capacity.
On my trailer I put a fully charged battery in a day before to start the fridge. The morning after our first night camping I will test the battery and it will have dropped to 12.5v and I run the generator for 2 hours. I could go another day or two with out charging but by then I would need a 4 hour run time to get the battery back up to 90%.
You will notice I said 90 not 100%. That's because the amps going in get lower the closer to fully charged the battery is. Even with a 4000w generator pushing a 55 amp charger, it would take all day to get that last 10% back into the battery.
After that the daily test shows a drop to 12.4v instead of 12,5 because I am not starting out with a fully charged battery every day.

On my solar set up. I got lucky and found a few high power panels on craigslist for $50 each. I use one of them with a $100 MPPT charge controller and a $32 set of 25 ft cords as a portable set up. I can start tracking the sun at dawn. In about 3 hours it has the battery back up to that 90% area and goes into float and gently works its way back up to 100% for the rest of the day.
A 230w panel is huge and had I started from scratch I would have bought smaller. Not just because it would have been easier to handle but because I could have used a much less expensive PWM charge controller. I am still considering selling what I have for four 68w Uni solar strips that glue to the roof and are shade tolerant. Those usually go for around $99 each and can use a PWM charge controller running as cheap as $20. I would think a pair of those and the cheap controller would suit your needs for under $300. You could glue them to the roof or just roll them out in the sun in a portable set up like I do and keep your battery happily charged up day to day. Much much much better than running even a quiet generator .

 
Wow! I'm learning so much my head is kind of spinning. All right...thanks for the information! I'll do some more research and contemplating. I am definately better off now than I was before I asked these questions.  :)
 
Like myself I've got 2 different generators for the RV. Typically I grab my small portable 2Kw All Power Generator for boondocking in the woods. All I need to do is charge the batteries up for the night time run. So during dinner time I'll fire up the genny and cook and eat dinner this allows me to charge any other battery operated stuff too. Then after dinner some time I'll shut down the genny. I try not to use 12V lighting I've been known to use crank lanterns or coleman lanterns in the evening. If your using a fuel lantern crack a roof vent and a small window.

As for hauling my 4kw genny I've got it but never really used it. I typically don't camp where its seriously hot and require A/C but the one time we did I was glad to be in a camp site with power. I know my 4Kw will power everything in the RV including the water heater and the A/C at the same time without a issue. But I will admit a construction genny is rather loud and annoying. Now my newer genny here at the house 6.5kw is much much quieter than the older 4kw but its twice as heavy and require 2 people to pick it up. Not happening.

So back to the 2kw its just big enough for charging the RV batteries and running a few light weight appliances. It extremely light weight and very quiet just about as quiet as most Honda. But a fraction of the cost of a Honda. 
 
JiminDenver said:
A 230w panel is huge and had I started from scratch I would have bought smaller. Not just because it would have been easier to handle but because I could have used a much less expensive PWM charge controller. I am still considering selling what I have for four 68w Uni solar strips that glue to the roof and are shade tolerant.

Jim,
If your serious about selling your solar panels, let me know.  I am situated in a low light environment and if the price is right, I may be interested.  Solar has always been too expensive for me to consider except for battery bank recharge over a longer period of time while I am not at the TT (during the week).  Small, 15W panel does it's best to do that during the week parked in the woods.  In the Summer, it works fine.  Any other time, not so good.

Let me know if your interested.  PM if you wish.
 
Your electrical needs are pretty modest, seems that another battery would do the trick. You really should get a real battery charger so you can fully charge before you go camping. Compared to a generator and solar, adding a second battery is much less costly.
 
I repair generators at my work and I can tell you Honda is the best. Everything else is way below in quality and tec support. Chinese made generators have no or few replacement parts. B&S generators are made in china and the relays change so fast the mfg can not keep up with helping us get parts. Honda costs more you get a warranty and the best filtered electric. We will not work on the low cost equipment.please be carfull when purchasing the want to be generators.
 
While the Honda and Yamahas are probably the best something that may be worthwhile to think about is to wire your tow vehicle to charge the house battery's as you travel so they are fresh when you stop, doesn't help for them lasting longer but then when you move on they are recharged up again though.
 
Thank you all for your information and advice. It's been a great help. I am going to print this thread out when it runs its course and use it as a guide to help decide what I will do in the spring.

I am leaning towards buying a deep cell battery (or two) and buying a more powerful charger to make sure I leave with a fully charged battery. I kind of like the idea of using solar energy while I am camping to charge the battery also.

Thanks again,
Jeff
 
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