New and confused

[AsenathBarzani]

Hello a month ago a toxic mold situation forced me to flee from my home. I decided to see it as an adventure and took off on the road in my suv, not knowing my next step. I ended up deciding to get an RV and turn it into a live/work situation. I found a floor plan that suited my needs perfectly, the keystone cougar 25 rds. However I looked up reviews and they were not pretty. I have since found the same floor plan in Grand design, jayco, and Forest River products, all for more or less the same price. However, as I dig deeper into research, it seems like all of these RVs get bad reviews and have tons of things breaking all the time. It's very disillusioning and confusing. Meanwhile, I am going from Airbnb to airbnb, and I'm pretty desperate to get my own place, namely, an rv. I'm wondering if I should just say f*** it and get the cougar 25 RDS or if I should consider investing more money, but if so, I'm not sure which company to invest in. There are a few outback RV models that look terrific, but I'm not sure if that's a more reliable company or not. I feel like I don't know enough about RVs yet to know what is actually worth the money. So I would love some advice!

What I love about the cougar 25 RDS is that it has a stationary bed, it has ample counter space - I prepare all my own meals, and it has a u-shaped dinette, which is perpendicular to a couch, both of which are opposite a television with one of those long arms, which I can turn into a monitor. My plan is to rip out the u-shaped dinette and replace it with an L-shaped desk. I can put my computer and music recording gear on that desk, then have my musical instruments off to the side of that. I can do my recording, live streaming, and zoom events in that corner. I can also use the couch for live streaming and doing zoom events about my articles and books. And for both of these scenarios, I can monitor everything on the replacement monitor that I'll put where the television currently is.

So the setup is perfect. But I'm getting so nervous just reading all of these reviews about RVs that fall apart at the seams. I would appreciate any guidance!

 

[AsenathBarzani]

Oops I meant outdoors rv, not outback.

 

[rvlifer]

You are going to see similar issues even with the premium brands. RVs are not known for lack of issues and low cost of ownership. Some have good experiences but many dont. The best thing to do to stack the odds in your favor are to continue to do your research and whatever rv you decide on get an nvria inspection before finalizing the deal.

the only one of those i have owned is forest river and those were lower end. Had an ok experience with them.

Welcome to the forum and good luck

 

[Jackiemac]

Hi and welcome to the forum.

I was under the impression that Grand Design was one of the better manufacturers but perhaps someone else can confirm.

As @DonTom mentioned in your other posts getting an inspector will cut down your chances of having problems.

Slides will give you more space but can come with their own potential issues. They can reduce heat if you are in a cold location, need a bit of maintenance on the seals (fairly simple spray and wipe) to keep them flexible and need your right to be fairly level to ensure they function correctly. That said many of us have them and don't have too many issues.

Floor plan tends to be the thing that matters a lot to people but you seem to have that nailed down. Storage is obviously reasonably important for full time living unless you are located in a more permanent park which allows a storage unit of some kind.

If your unit is towable then you carefully need to consider the towing and carrying capacity of your vehicle too.

Good luck with your search and ask as many questions as you need to (but only post in one area as members will see it no matter which location it's in).

 

[AsenathBarzani]

Really appreciate the feedback. I reached out to a few inspectors. Good to know about the downside of slides. Also sorry about the sort of duplicate post with a short synopsis. I thought there are different threads and different people are going to see different things. But I will make sure that I only post one item on a particular topic moving forward.

 

[AsenathBarzani]

In case it's helpful, here are more details about where I'm at:

Im circling around these models:
keystone cougar 25RDS
Grand design imagine 24LDE
Forest River east to west della tera 251RD
I was also considering the jayco starcraft 26RLS, but I get the feeling that is very cheaply made.

I'm looking for whatever is the most durable and reliable in that basic floor plan that they all share.

I'm also going to be checking out the Outdoor RV models with that same floor plan more or less - including the following:

25 RDS
280 KVS
250 RDS
260 RDS

I'm not sure if they are actually better made than the other brands. I'm going to be financing my purchase, so I'm taking an attitude of "as much as necessary, as little as possible." I just really don't want something that's going to fall apart 5 minutes after I buy it.

Thanks for any additional insights!

 

[Larry N.]

or if I should consider investing more money,

Perhaps you could change our mindset a bit, too. RVs are not an investment, but rather are expenses. As you are discovering, RVs are not like cars (and the dealers are different too) and don't get the quality control at the factory that we've come to expect from cars (though there was a time...). In addition, cost is a major factor in driving the design and implementation because so many RV purchasers keep looking for the lowest possible price vs actual quality, which is more costly.

Add in the fact that an RV is a not too solid house that rolls down the road, thus lots of bumps and vibration, and you encounter problems from time to time. Of course DIY repair on a lot of things helps cut the costs to you, so any skills you have in that regard will help you a lot.

So if you want an RV made of better materials you'll need to look at the more expensive end of things, though that doesn't preclude problems from poor quality control during assembly.

OR, you might luck into one such as the Newmar I had that had almost no problems from the factory, other than some electronics in the generator going bad after 6 months- nicely covered under warranty.

The dealer can sometimes make a difference, too- the one I had with the Newmar did a good job of prep and went over everything with me for a couple of hours when I picked it up.

 

[SpencerPJ]

Keep in mind, RV stands for recreational vehicle. Most are not built good enough for long term living, especially the entry level travel trailers. All will require a fairly handy person to maintain or a person able to pay to maintain. Also keep in mind, most of the models you listed, it will take a decent tow vehicle to pull it, not just an average suv.

 

[Mark_K5LXP]

it seems like all of these RVs get bad reviews and have tons of things breaking all the time....

whatever is the most durable and reliable

If it isn't more or less obvious yet, there are no clear winners in the RV world. Contrasted to say premium vs economy class cars, luxury vs tract homes, generally they all suck. In reading through forums such as these you learn that even for high end coaches the only distinction is not if they have problems, it's what the problem is and what it costs to fix it. So brand, model, and even money are no driver of "durability" and "reliability". They're all put together pretty much the same way and even among the same make and model are subject to the vagaries of what workers put them together under what economic conditions of the day. So, now that expectations are realistically set, you pick out the one you like or does what you want for the money you have, then go forward with the knowledge anything can go wrong from that point on. Odds are it won't - at least not all at once. But statistically problems are inevitable and that has to be weighed against your goals, and budget. The "what you like" aspect of this is key - you will be able to tolerate issues with something you like better than something you weren't crazy about from day one. Expect that RV living will not be cheap or convenient. If you go into it with that mindset then there will be no surprises. All that being said there is an upside, the "making memories" part. Past all the money, time and effort there are those respite periods where you actually get to enjoy the thing and hopefully enough of those happen that makes it all worth it.

Mark B.
Albuquerque, NM

 

[Lou Schneider]

I'm also going to be checking out the Outdoor RV models with that same floor plan more or less - including the following:

25 RDS
280 KVS
250 RDS
260 RDS

I'm not sure if they are actually better made than the other brands. I'm going to be financing my purchase, so I'm taking an attitude of "as much as necessary, as little as possible." I just really don't want something that's going to fall apart 5 minutes after I buy it.

Thanks for any additional insights

Outdoors RV is one of the Northwood Industries brands. I'm a big fan, having owned two of their trailers and several other RVs over the past 25 years.

Northwood is a smaller manufacturer in the rainy Pacific Northwest and IMO produces trailers that are above average in materials and workmanship. For example, using marine grade and outdoor grade plywood instead of OSB or chip board for the floors and roof. Northwood got their start in the 1990s building housing trailers for logging camps and they had to survive being hauled over dirt roads into the forest and getting rained on for months at a time.

I've had two Northwood trailers over the years, the first was a 1999 Arctic Fox I purchased in 2001 from a wrecking yard after it had flipped onto it's side. Most trailers disintegrate if this happens, but this one survived and with minor cosmetic repairs served me well for 10 years.

I replaced it in 2014 with a 2004 Sunnybrook trailer having a similar floor plan. It was nowhere near the quality of the Arctic Fox and had far less insulation. Today's descendent is Grand Designs.

My current travel rig is a 2003 vintage Arctic Fox 5th wheel. I bought it from a couple who bought it new and traveled in it fulltime, then parked it and lived in it for a couple of years while they built their house. It has the same quality as my 1999 Arctic Fox and as far as I can tell the new Northwood products continue this trend.

Here's a short video from the Outdoors RV website highlighting some of their construction features. It's kind of hidden in the fine print at the bottom of the page.

https://www.outdoorsrvmfg.com/video-built-tough/

 

[8Muddypaws]

We have had many RV and the only brand that didn't seem to have many problems was an Arctic Fox.

It was heavier and more costly than units of the same size and it was built like a tank and made for cold climates.

This was many years ago but I'll bet they're still made better than most.

 

[AsenathBarzani]

Perhaps you could change our mindset a bit, too. RVs are not an investment, but rather are expenses. As you are discovering, RVs are not like cars (and the dealers are different too) and don't get the quality control at the factory that we've come to expect from cars (though there was a time...). In addition, cost is a major factor in driving the design and implementation because so many RV purchasers keep looking for the lowest possible price vs actual quality, which is more costly.

Add in the fact that an RV is a not too solid house that rolls down the road, thus lots of bumps and vibration, and you encounter problems from time to time. Of course DIY repair on a lot of things helps cut the costs to you, so any skills you have in that regard will help you a lot.

So if you want an RV made of better materials you'll need to look at the more expensive end of things, though that doesn't preclude problems from poor quality control during assembly.

OR, you might luck into one such as the Newmar I had that had almost no problems from the factory, other than some electronics in the generator going bad after 6 months- nicely covered under warranty.

The dealer can sometimes make a difference, too- the one I had with the Newmar did a good job of prep and went over everything with me for a couple of hours when I picked it up.

Thank you! My impression is that newmar only makes motorhomes. Do they also make travel trailers? I am definitely down with spending more money to get something quality. Also I am allowing this transition of my life to be an opportunity for growing in different areas, including becoming crafty and handy. I need to learn basic things like how to use a drill. That's why we have YouTube right?!

 

[AsenathBarzani]

Keep in mind, RV stands for recreational vehicle. Most are not built good enough for long term living, especially the entry level travel trailers. All will require a fairly handy person to maintain or a person able to pay to maintain. Also keep in mind, most of the models you listed, it will take a decent tow vehicle to pull it, not just an average suv.

Yep, thanks for the tip. I am waiting to figure out what RV I'm going to get, to then figure out what truck I need to lease. I'm currently leasing a Mazda cx-5, which I absolutely love, but it has very little towing capacity. So I'm going to sell it to the dealer and then get the truck.

 

[AsenathBarzani]

If it isn't more or less obvious yet, there are no clear winners in the RV world. Contrasted to say premium vs economy class cars, luxury vs tract homes, generally they all suck. In reading through forums such as these you learn that even for high end coaches the only distinction is not if they have problems, it's what the problem is and what it costs to fix it. So brand, model, and even money are no driver of "durability" and "reliability". They're all put together pretty much the same way and even among the same make and model are subject to the vagaries of what workers put them together under what economic conditions of the day. So, now that expectations are realistically set, you pick out the one you like or does what you want for the money you have, then go forward with the knowledge anything can go wrong from that point on. Odds are it won't - at least not all at once. But statistically problems are inevitable and that has to be weighed against your goals, and budget. The "what you like" aspect of this is key - you will be able to tolerate issues with something you like better than something you weren't crazy about from day one. Expect that RV living will not be cheap or convenient. If you go into it with that mindset then there will be no surprises. All that being said there is an upside, the "making memories" part. Past all the money, time and effort there are those respite periods where you actually get to enjoy the thing and hopefully enough of those happen that makes it all worth it.

Mark B.
Albuquerque, NM

Thank you, very helpful. Definitely need to work on becoming handy and crafty! Looking forward to developing that part of my skill set.

 

[AsenathBarzani]

Outdoors RV is one of the Northwood Industries brands. I'm a big fan, having owned two of their trailers and several other RVs over the past 25 years.

Northwood is a smaller manufacturer in the rainy Pacific Northwest and IMO produces trailers that are above average in materials and workmanship. For example, using marine grade and outdoor grade plywood instead of OSB or chip board for the floors and roof. Northwood got their start in the 1990s building housing trailers for logging camps and they had to survive being hauled over dirt roads into the forest and getting rained on for months at a time.

I've had two Northwood trailers over the years, the first was a 1999 Arctic Fox I purchased in 2001 from a wrecking yard after it had flipped onto it's side. Most trailers disintegrate if this happens, but this one survived and with minor cosmetic repairs served me well for 10 years.

I replaced it in 2014 with a 2004 Sunnybrook trailer having a similar floor plan. It had nowhere near the quality of the Arctic Fox and had far less insulation. Today's descendent is Grand Designs.

My current travel rig is a 2003 vintage Arctic Fox 5th wheel. I bought it from a couple who bought it new and traveled in it fulltime, then parked it and lived in it for a couple of years while they built their house. It has the same quality as my 1999 Arctic Fox and as far as I can tell the new Northwood products continue this trend.

Here's a short video from the Outdoors RV website highlighting some of their construction features. It's kind of hidden in the fine print at the bottom of the page.

https://www.outdoorsrvmfg.com/video-built-tough/

Amazing, thank you for this feedback. I'm heading to the outdoors RV dealer today. I also connected with an RV inspector, who said that in his opinion, this brand is A cut above the rest.

 

[AsenathBarzani]

You are going to see similar issues even with the premium brands. RVs are not known for lack of issues and low cost of ownership. Some have good experiences but many dont. The best thing to do to stack the odds in your favor are to continue to do your research and whatever rv you decide on get an nvria inspection before finalizing the deal.

the only one of those i have owned is forest river and those were lower end. Had an ok experience with them.

Welcome to the forum and good luck

Thank you! Yes I have lined up an inspector with those qualifications. Does about $1,000 sound right for what he wants to charge?

 

[SpencerPJ]

I agree, Northwood is a better brand (so I hear). Not many available in my part of the country. After you find the trailer, we'd be happy to give you some tips on a tow vehicle, often car/truck dealerships have poorly trained salespeople that can get you into something you wish you had not. Good luck.

 

[ferfer]

Thank you! Yes I have lined up an inspector with those qualifications. Does about $1,000 sound right for what he wants to charge?

Is the inspector you contacted a NRVIA RV inspector? If not suggest you investigate/contact nrvia as they are highly thought of by RVForum members.

https://nrvia.org/

 

[rvlifer]

Thank you! Yes I have lined up an inspector with those qualifications. Does about $1,000 sound right for what he wants to charge?

I recently paid a little less than that to inspect my 44ft 5th wheel. Nvria inspectors are independent so prices will vary. The guy i used based the cost on the length. The inspection took almost 9hrs and was well worth it.

it can easily cost far more than that to deal with issues so the cost is well worth it.

I wouldnt hesitate to pay that amount but it might be worth contacting several inapectors on the link provided to compare

 

[Lou Schneider]

Yep, thanks for the tip. I am waiting to figure out what RV I'm going to get, to then figure out what truck I need to lease. I'm currently leasing a Mazda cx-5, which I absolutely love, but it has very little towing capacity. So I'm going to sell it to the dealer and then get the truck.

If you're going to lease a truck, make sure the lease doesn't have any restrictions on towing a trailer. Most RVers finance and buy their trucks for this reason.