New tires - question about vibration

[Debra17]

Last week I put a new set of tires on my F250. The new tires are Goodyear Wrangler Trailrunner all terrain tires. I had these tires on a previous F150 I owned and liked them so decided to get them for this truck. When I drove the truck after the install was complete there was a vibration at all speeds. I went back the next day and the shop performed a high speed computer balance.  When I test drove it there was improvement but there is still some vibration at about 65mph.

Saturday I drove about 200 miles up to Ouray and back. I thought maybe the tires needed to break in. But I still have the vibration. It isn?t real bad but is noticeable. I can feel it in the steering wheel. My question is, would there be something besides being out of balance that would cause a vibration? I did have a similar vibration with the old tires which were Michelin tires with regular tread. But I just thought it was the tires which were getting old and fairly worn. But now I?m wondering if it?s not from the tires. I am planning to go back to the shop. But since they have already done the high speed  balance I don?t know what else they could check.

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

How many miles on your F250?

If the tires are properly balanced, then the next place to look would be front end alignment.  A good front end place will check ball joints, tie rod ends, and similar front end stuff before alignment, and insist anything worn beyond specs be replaced first.  Rightly so, it is not possible to align a front end with worn out, loose parts in it.

Finally, if I remember right, F250s have a steering damper.  This is basically a shock absorber, and like all hydraulic shock absorbers, can wear out and need replacing.

 

[Debra17]

The mileage is 55,000. It isn?t pulling to either side while driving. I?m going to google the steering damper and see what I find out. Thanks!

 

[sightseers]

Shocks......and then check the air pressure and see if it's on the high side,

many people lower the pressure when they are not loaded down.

 

[kdbgoat]

and then check the air pressure and see if it's on the high side,

many people lower the pressure when they are not loaded down.

The tire shop may have inflated them to the maximum on the sidewall instead of what the sticker on the door pillar states

 

[Debra17]

I just checked the pressure - they are at 67lbs. Max on the tire is 80. I was running about 60 lbs in the old tires although I was never able to find a load and inflation table for that tire. Haven?t looked for one for these tires yet. The tires are LT275/65R20 LRE.

When I went to SmartWeigh last year the front had 2190 lbs w/o trailer and rear 2150. With trailer front was 2050 lbs and rear 2500. When I look at a generic load table if I am reading it correctly it gives a pressure of around 50 lbs for my tire size. That just seems awfully low so I never dropped that much. This is the table I?m referencing:

https://toyo-arhxo0vh6d1oh9i0c.stackpathdns.com/media/2125/application_of_load_inflation_tables_20170203.pdf

Any suggestions on what pressure I should use?

Would it be normal for shocks to need replacing at 55k miles?

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

Well, I'll tell you a trick some of the racers use to set their initial tire pressure. 

A tire that is neither underinflated nor overinflated for the weight it is carrying will make perfect contact all across it's tread.

Blow your tires up to their maximum pressure - 80 lbs. in this case - and go to a mall before it opens.  Take a piece of chalk and mark a line straight across each of your tires.  Now drive a hundred yards or so at a reasonable speed, and stop and check your chalk lines.  I think you'll find that the chalk is worn away from the center of the tire, but still there on the edges.  Redraw the lines and let 5 lbs. out of the tires and repeat.  You want to keep doing this until ALL the chalk gets worn away from edge to edge.  That should be your correct air pressure for that amount of weight. 

(If you somehow go too far and wind up underinflated, you'll see that the chalk is worn away at the edges but still in the center of the tread.) 

 

[Gary RV_Wizard]

There are lots of possible factors in a "vibration" (that vague term covers a lot of faults), but the fact that it existed before you changed tires is significant.  You need to have the entire front suspension checked (usually done in a quality alignment job) and, of nothing found there, the drive line (driveshaft, universals, etc).  Shocks are generally NOT a source of a constant vibration, but may contribute to a broader problem. Tire inflation may be a factor, but secondary to something else. High or low inflation per se doesn't cause vibration problems, but can exacerbate the root cause.

 

[lynnmor]

Tire imbalance usually is more pronounced at about 45 MPH, and then again at a much higher speed.  Bent wheels or faulty tires can show up at any speed.  Bad or imbalanced brake rotors can act like a tire problem.  After ruling these thing out, I would have them rotate the tires and see if that changes the feel, if so, ask for new tires.

 

[John From Detroit]

There is indeed something other than "out of balance" that can do that. Out of Round.. Only a very few tire shops can fix that but it is easy to test for.

Lift tires till they JUST clear the ground (front is easiest) and rotate. if they are out of round you will either notice a spot that has greater ground clearance or they sill stop. in the same spot. every time you rotate them (not spin just rotate)  NOTE this test is not absolute.. A shop which does tire Truing can do a better job.

There are also other things that can cause it that have nothing to do  with tires.

 

[Boonieman]

A high speed balance is usually done with the tire on the vehicle, which should rule out an out of balance rotor or anything else on the wheel assembly itself. Out of alignment will cause pulling to the left or right, or premature tire wear, but normally not vibration. As suggested, I would suspect a u-joint or constant velocity joint more than a balance issue on the tires. A high speed balance usually will correct a tire imbalance, much more so than the old bubble balance method.

 

[sightseers]

Would it be normal for shocks to need replacing at 55k miles?

IMO...yes,  that's about all you can get out of the original equipment shocks,  .

( and IMO...KYB's are the best shocks )

 

[Debra17]

I am absorbing all of the information in everyone?s replies. I?ll try to be more descriptive in what I am detecting in the truck. Before I went back for balancing, at all speeds I could feel the steering wheel shaking back and forth and could feel the truck shaking in the seat. After the balancing there was a lot of improvement. Now at about 62 to 65 mph I can feel a slight vibration of the steering wheel. It is less than with the old tires. I don?t really feel it in the seat now. So I?m wondering if I?m just overly conscious of it because of just having the new tires put on. There is no pulling to either side and it doesn?t wallow or bounce like you might have with bad shocks.  I bought the tires at Four States Tire in Cortez CO. They also replaced the rear differential and transfer case fluids. I don?t know if they did any other inspection. I?m going to go there tomorrow and find out. There are several auto repair shops in this town but I don?t see an alignment shop. Four States does all repairs and they have good reviews on google. But I don?t know about having them do front end or drivetrain work?  Should any competent shop be able to do this? 

Also there is an OEM steering stabilizer on the truck. From reading truck forums they do seem to go bad at around 60k miles. So that could be it.

 

[Boonieman]

I used to do front end work when I was younger, balancing, alignments, etc. Again, what you describe sounds like a bad u-joint.

 

[Debra17]

I used to do front end work when I was younger, balancing, alignments, etc. Again, what you describe sounds like a bad u-joint.

When I go to the shop tomorrow I will specifically ask about the u joint. Thanks!

 

[Boonieman]

Good luck. If you find the problem it would be nice to let others on the forum known in case someone runs into the same problem.

 

[Old_Crow]

Call the tire shops in your area and find one that can do "road force balancing".  The machine puts a roller against the tread to simulate the force of the road against the tire while balancing it.  Much more accurate for finding runout or other tire problems.

 

[Gary RV_Wizard]

These days, spin balancing is more commonly done on a balancing machine than on the vehicle.  And I haven't seen a tire shop using a balance bubble in decades.  High speed spin balancing on the vehicle used to be fairly common, but now is mostly reserved for unusual situations (which maybe you have).  A lot of tire shops no longer even have that capability, or consider it too dangerous to use (their insurers don't like it!).

 

[lynnmor]

High speed spin balancing on the vehicle used to be fairly common, but now is mostly reserved for unusual situations (which maybe you have).  A lot of tire shops no longer even have that capability, or consider it too dangerous to use (their insurers don't like it!).

That is why I bought an old unit and refurbished it.  The on the vehicle balancers became obsolete for the reasons you state as well as issues of using them with front wheel drive vehicles.  For a trailer they are great because the hubs and drums are no longer balanced from the factory and some are extremely out of balance.

 

[Debra17]

OK, I went to the tire shop this morning. I'm in Cortez, CO which is a fairly small city, availability of services is limited. I spoke to one of the service managers and discussed the issue I'm having. They did the high speed balance on a machine with the wheels off the truck. It uses a laser which would find any high spots, etc on the tires he said. He did mention the road force balancing but says there is no one in Cortez that offers that. Also, they don't do drive train service there. Ford's drivetrain warranty is 60,000/5 years. So I have 5,000 miles left on the warranty. My plan now is to go to a Ford dealer to have the drivetrain checked to see if they can find anything wrong. They also should be able to do the road force balancing if it may be needed.

I'll update when I find out anything further. Thanks for everyone's comments/suggestions, I appreciate all the info