No longer a Forest River owner

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Bill Nourse

Active member
Joined
Apr 20, 2021
Posts
35
Location
Bloomfield, NM
Buyer beware. On March 26th, 2021 I purchased a 2021 XLR Nitro 321 toyhauler from Ram Motors and RV in Rio Rancho, NM. A credit app was completed and Uriah the finance officer completed the financing and we signed all the contracts. I was told by Uriah, the finance officer, that the interest rate was 5% and that payments were $560 a month. A week later on April 2nd, I picked the unit up and took a 1,000 mile trip with it. I found a couple of minor issues with the unit and returned it to Ram Motors for repairs which they indicated would take a few weeks. On May 5th, I became concerned that we had not received a payment book. I called Uriah and was told that there was a problem with the financing and it had to be redone. When I arrived at the dealership later that day, I was told that the original finance company now wanted $7,000+ down to maintain the 5% interest, but I could get 6.0% from a different company with $3,700 down or I could get 6.5% with 0 down and a raise of about $70.00 per month in payments. I argued that the mistake was not mine and that I had bought and taken possession in good faith and had signed all the proper contracts. I was told by Uriah that if I put $3,700 down my payment would remain about the same as the original, but with a higher 6% interest rate. I felt this was unreasonable and offered to compromise and pay $1,500 of the $3,700 and the dealer pay the balance. This was not acceptable to the dealer and they offered no compromise, just indicted that it was take it or leave it. I subsequently refused the deal and returned the unit even though I had been in possession and had used it for over a month. I had this unit for more than a month and thought everything was fine until I called because I had not received a payment book. In that time I had never been contacted about any problem. If there had been a rejection, why was I not notified for over a month and then only when I became concerned about payments. I am guessing that Ram is going to try and resell this unit as new when in fact it has been used. If you buy this unit VIN#4X4FXLH23MF167981 from Ram Motors just know that it is not new. I have slept in it, ate in it and the black water tank has been used. I intend to take my concerns to Forest River, the manufacturer of this unit, the BBB, Social Media and an attorney is under consideration. We have bought many things for this unit, bedding, dishes, linens, TVs and more that we now do not need. I plan to contact Forest River, but I don't hold out much hope of gaining any satisfaction.
 

msw3113

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Joined
Aug 9, 2017
Posts
357
Location
New Hampshire
Stories like this are disturbing. The phrase "we signed all the contracts" is meaningful and, should it get that far, would carry weight in court. Walking away seems like the best move; I hope you aren't out of pocket by more than the supplies you bought.
 

Jayflight

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Joined
Jan 22, 2021
Posts
278
For a start, contact your state's DMV and see if any paperwork was processed. If this is the case, then it can't be sold as new. And if this is the case and the contract and paperwork was signed and you have a copy, I doubt that the dealer can win on this issue. There is instances of a very short period of time to withdraw from a contract. This can vary from state to state of course. But it sounds like that time has passed. RV dealers seems to be worse than a buy here pay here used car lot.
 
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Old_Crow

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Nov 20, 2016
Posts
2,395
Location
Mammoth Lakes, California
My kid had basically the same thing happen when he and his wife bought a new Jeep a few years back. They ended up securing their own financing though her credit union at even a better rate than the first rate offered by the dealer.
 

Gary RV_Wizard

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Feb 2, 2005
Posts
73,527
Location
At our Silver Springs FL home
The finance contract is typically separate from the vehicle sales contract, but it's still a contract. Probably has some weasel words in it somewhere about being contingent on acceptance by the lender, though. Failure to deliver the contracted service voids the finance contract, but you still have the vehicle sale contract to contend with. But failure to pay the agreed amount voids the sales contract too, so the seller takes the vehicle back unless the buyer chooses some other financing to complete the deal. Bad business for all concerned, but hardly fraudulent. Really sloppy business practices, though. Acceptance by the lender should have been confirmed before the vehicle left the sales lot.
 

Utclmjmpr

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Sep 14, 2009
Posts
5,084
Location
Cedar City, UT
I am wondering what Ram's position would have been if they did not have possession of the unit,,as Gary said,, very sloppy business dealings verging on fraud and "bait and switch".>>>Dan
 

Gary RV_Wizard

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At our Silver Springs FL home
Hold onto your pants, cause it's not inconceivable that Ram will attempt to bill you for the usage you "enjoyed", i.e. some sort of rental fee. If so, then the legal status of your sales and finance contracts will get a lot of attention. A lawyer will be very much needed.
 

Gary RV_Wizard

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At our Silver Springs FL home
If you think this is rotten, see what three customers at General RV in Utah discovered about their financing contracts.

 

Bugford

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Joined
Sep 15, 2018
Posts
89
Location
Hamilton Ohio

Skookum

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Dec 19, 2018
Posts
190
Most dealers already have their butts covered with wording in their purchase orders/contracts that say if your financing isn't approved, you agree to make them whole, or give back the vehicle. Gary's right ... better find out if you're on the hook for anything else. This is one of the caveats of taking delivery before the loan is actually written.
 

A Traveler

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Joined
Aug 25, 2014
Posts
276
I’ve had dealings with General RV on incompetently performed hydraulic system repairs. I had to go to the HWH factory to get the repairs completed properly. HWH actually used my coach in a mini-clinic for all their techs as an example of how NOT to repair their systems. The lead tech told me he was amazed that I didn’t have a fire.

I would not buy a roll of toilet paper from General RV. Are they still family owned? If so, the family sure has gone down the wrong road.
 

Bill Nourse

Active member
Joined
Apr 20, 2021
Posts
35
Location
Bloomfield, NM
Additional clarification: I bought this unit on March 26, 2021 and had to wait until April 2 to pick it up as it had to be serviced and prepped. I signed loan papers and all other contracts. All of this paperwork is in my possession. The loan papers stated 5% through the Bank of America for 15 years with no down. The loan papers were signed at this time and I was told that I had been approved. This was done on March 26th. On April 2 when I picked it up there was no mention of any issues and the dealer put a temporary NM plate on it and I left on a 1,000 mile trip. On this trip I found a couple of minor issues and took the unit back to get them corrected. Left the unit for 2 weeks. Still no mention of issues. On May 5 my wife became concerned that a payment should be about due and we had not received a payment book or had any contact with Bank of America. I called the dealer to inquire, at which time he told me there was an issue with financing, but that it wouldn't change anything. When I got to the dealer, I was presented with another contract that had raised the interest rate from 5.0 to 6.5 with a jump in payments from 550 to 610. Or I could get 6.0 and 560 payments if I put 3,750 down. The dealer said there was a clause that said if financing didn't go through I had 48 hours to refuse the deal. This is all taking place almost 6 weeks after the signing of the original deal. I told him that this was unacceptable and it was their oversight and mistake and not mine, but that I would be willing to pay 1,500 of the 3,750 down if they would pick up the rest. In other words, I would pay the 3,750 down, but they would discount the purchase price by the difference, which would have been 2,250. So I offered to pay for almost half of their mistake. They kept saying they wanted to work with me, but they would not budge on any offer I made at compromise. This morning I am having a friend contact them and see if they are trying to sell this unit as new which if they are I believe violates NM State law. I am also turning this over to the NM Attorney General's consumer fraud division and am contacting a private attorney.
 

Bill Nourse

Active member
Joined
Apr 20, 2021
Posts
35
Location
Bloomfield, NM
According to the OP's description,, he never was an "owner".>>>D
I might not have been the owner, but I had a drive out license in my name, my signature on a pile of paperwork and I had possession for nearly 6 weeks, not to mention that I had insurance on it from my insurance company. If I had not taken this in for service and still had it in my possession when they sprung this on me, they would be having a hell of a time finding it.
 

Gary RV_Wizard

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Feb 2, 2005
Posts
73,527
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At our Silver Springs FL home
It seems pretty clear they misled you about the loan being "approved", though there is always the possibility that the information in your load application was found to be incorrect or misrepresented. Since the dealer probably created the app in your behalf, they may have fudged it a bit. Then maybe BOA balked when the app data couldn't be verified. The dealer would no doubt claim a clerical error, but maybe they do that all the time.

It appears they sent you away with a temporary tag, which isn't the same at all as having title issued. Was there an application for title in your paperwork? Even if you have a copy of a title app, it's possible [likely] the dealer back office doesn't actually file it wth the state until payment was confirmed. If no title was issued, it's still legally a "new" RV; any prior usage of it is similar to it being a "demonstrator" or "show model". Ethically that usage should be disclosed to another buyer, but legally it's a gray area.

For the record, I'm not suggesting you did anything wrong in this debacle. Sounds like shoddy or sloppy business procedures all the way. And the dealer doesn't care, probably because RV sales are hot and he can sell that RV again in a few days or weeks.
 
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Bill Nourse

Active member
Joined
Apr 20, 2021
Posts
35
Location
Bloomfield, NM
It seems pretty clear they misled you about the loan being "approved", though there is always the possibility that the information in your load application was found to be incorrect or misrepresented. Since the dealer probably created the app in your behalf, they may have fudged it a bit. Then maybe BOA balked when the app data couldn't be verified. The dealer would no doubt claim a clerical error, but maybe they do that all the time.

It appears they sent you away with a temporary tag, which isn't the same at all as having title issued. Was there an application for title in your paperwork? Even if you have a copy of a title app, it's possible [likely] the dealer back office doesn't actually file it wth the state until payment was confirmed. If no title was issued, it's still legally a "new" RV; any prior usage of it is similar to it being a "demonstrator" or "show model". Ethically that usage should be disclosed to another buyer, but legally it's a gray area.

For the record, I'm not suggesting you did anything wrong in this debacle. Sounds like shoddy or sloppy business procedures all the way. And the dealer doesn't care, probably because RV sales are hot and he can sell that RV again in a few days or weeks.
My sister called this dealer on the 7th on the pretense of being a potential buyer. The unit was sold May 6, the day after I left it on May 5. When I was removing my property from the RV one of the yard employees asked me what was going on and I told him. He mused that maybe someone had seen it sitting on the lot for repairs and offered more money. Makes you wonder if this sort of thing is the norm for the company.
As far as credit app data being verifiable I have an 848 credit rating. I have a cousin that does some transport work for RV's. He said that if he used the bathroom, sleeps in the unit while on the road, or any other use makes it legally used. Don't know how true that might be. I am guessing a title was never applied for even though it is almost 6 weeks out from purchase. Be that as it may, I just completed a complaint with the New Mexico Attorney General's Office's Consumer Freud Division. Don't know how that will play out, but after that, the next step will be legal action. When I bought this I sold my old 5th wheel, so I am left with nothing at the start of camping season and I'm not sure I will find what I want by the time I go to Arizona for the winter. If I have to go the lawsuit route it will be for a lot of lost usage, mental anguish and I will have a jury trial so the decision is left with the people and not some disinterested judge.
 
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