No longer a Forest River owner

[steveblonde]

A dealership of any sort be it car,bike,boat, or rv is not going to let someone use a rig for 6 weeks unless they have all the paperwork done correctly. Here in Canada you cant take it and plate it without the bill of sale which means if there is a loan its registered against the title. I know in the states its a different process. But never the less 6 weeks is a long time to let someone use something they are not legally entitled to. Why would someone give it back if they had the signed paperwork. Im not accusing Bill of any wrong doing but it doesn't add up.

 

[Bill Nourse]

A dealership of any sort be it car,bike,boat, or rv is not going to let someone use a rig for 6 weeks unless they have all the paperwork done correctly. Here in Canada you cant take it and plate it without the bill of sale which means if there is a loan its registered against the title. I know in the states its a different process. But never the less 6 weeks is a long time to let someone use something they are not legally entitled to. Why would someone give it back if they had the signed paperwork. Im not accusing Bill of any wrong doing but it doesn't add up.

I gave it back because it was in their possession at the time as I had it at the shop for some minor issues. If I had been in possession when they pulled this, they would have been looking for it for the next 10 years. I had the choice of leaving it or agreeing to a new loan contract that would have an interest rate jump from 5% to 6.5 (A considerable sum over 15 years). I refused to agree to a new contract with higher rates. They let me take the unit and didn't even notify me of the loan problems until I questioned them about why I hadn't received any documentation or payment book from Bank of America. I questioned this almost 6 weeks after the deal was done because I didn't want to miss a payment. It doesn't add up to me either, but I can post a pic. of the unit behind my truck in a couple of different locations if it will put your mind to rest about whether they let me take it. I guess I could also post the contract, and my proof of insurance for the unit, but I'm not going to. I took the drive out plate off of it, so I guess I could post you a pic of that. They let me take it because it was a done deal. Then when I took it in for repairs someone saw it and offered them more money for it is my guess. It was resold on the 6th, one day after I left it. Does that add up.

 

[Bill Nourse]

The finance contract is typically separate from the vehicle sales contract, but it's still a contract. Probably has some weasel words in it somewhere about being contingent on acceptance by the lender, though. Failure to deliver the contracted service voids the finance contract, but you still have the vehicle sale contract to contend with. But failure to pay the agreed amount voids the sales contract too, so the seller takes the vehicle back unless the buyer chooses some other financing to complete the deal. Bad business for all concerned, but hardly fraudulent. Really sloppy business practices, though. Acceptance by the lender should have been confirmed before the vehicle left the sales lot.

I was assured that the loan had been approved, though of course I would have no way of knowing or any reason to question it at the time. And the loan contract does have the weasel words you speak of. Gives you 48 hours to back out and return the unit. This is all happening nearly 6 weeks after the fact.

 

[Bill Nourse]

A dealership of any sort be it car,bike,boat, or rv is not going to let someone use a rig for 6 weeks unless they have all the paperwork done correctly. Here in Canada you cant take it and plate it without the bill of sale which means if there is a loan its registered against the title. I know in the states its a different process. But never the less 6 weeks is a long time to let someone use something they are not legally entitled to. Why would someone give it back if they had the signed paperwork. Im not accusing Bill of any wrong doing but it doesn't add up.

Guess I could send you a pic of the refund check for 3,200 that I made them give me for the extended warranty.

 

[Gary RV_Wizard]

A dealership of any sort be it car,bike,boat, or rv is not going to let someone use a rig for 6 weeks unless they have all the paperwork done correctly. Here in Canada you cant take it and plate it without the bill of sale which means if there is a loan its registered against the title. I know in the states its a different process

The process isn't materially different in the states. Bill already stated he drove it away on a temporary tag provided by the dealer, so it was never plated. And the loan was never completed, so no loan lien registered anywhere (and nothing to put a lien on if the title was never issued).

Six weeks sounds impossiblyly long, but there is a lot of room for delay in these systems and dealers sometimes take advantage of it. They can sit on the DMV paperwork and they can avoid reporting the sale transaction so that their floor plan (inventory loan) doesn't come due. They had other lenders willing to write the loan and probably never dreamed Bill would "walk" over less than $2000 or a mere 1.5% (in their view, anyway). Shear arrogance and I bet they were surprised, but you can see they justified in thinking they could sell that RV again in a heartbeat. They got their sale and the money from another customer, so why should they worry. They lost Bill as a potential customer forever, but the fact is that few RV buyers are repeat customers, so that doesn't carry much weight.

 

[Skookum]

Keep us posted. Something is awry here.

Any reason you didn't just provide your own financing? Credit union, community bank, commercial bank? They usually have great rates for excellent credit.

I wonder if the dealer actually had to take possession of the title for one reason, which might explain why it "sold" the day after you returned it. Or maybe it went home with a higher bidder. That would be pretty dirty of them.

 

[steveblonde]

The process isn't materially different in the states. Bill already stated he drove it away on a temporary tag provided by the dealer, so it was never plated. And the loan was never completed, so no loan lien registered anywhere (and nothing to put a lien on if the title was never issued).

Six weeks sounds impossiblyly long, but there is a lot of room for delay in these systems and dealers sometimes take advantage of it. They can sit on the DMV paperwork and they can avoid reporting the sale transaction so that their floor plan (inventory loan) doesn't come due. They had other lenders willing to write the loan and probably never dreamed Bill would "walk" over less than $2000 or a mere 1.5% (in their view, anyway). Shear arrogance and I bet they were surprised, but you can see they justified in thinking they could sell that RV again in a heartbeat. They got their sale and the money from another customer, so why should they worry. They lost Bill as a potential customer forever, but the fact is that few RV buyers are repeat customers, so that doesn't carry much weight.

Its very very different here. If you get a loan its registered by the loan company within minutes the loan holderthen sends you a computor generated firm you must then take the document the loan holder sends you along with a bill of sale to dmv to get a plate. There is no temporary tag and have a plate within minutes.
Case in point my daughter bought a new car on Wed 3.30 pm it was ready to be picked up Thursday morning 9.00 insurance was transfered as was her old plate and the new registration lists bank of nova scotia as the lienholder as its a brand new 2021 hyundia venue. She took the old plate off her old car put it on the new one. Done

 

[SpencerPJ]

She took the old plate off her old car put it on the new one. Done

Here in many of the states, we have lines to discuss what lines to get in, and meetings to discuss other meetings that should be. Sarcasm aside, where I live in Indiana, it's one of the better processes we have, as you describe. That would not happen here, the Dealers interact live with the dmv, pretty slick system.

 

[steveblonde]

Here once you have that bill of sale in your email or hand whatever its a done deal end of story. What happened to you is so messed up on so many levels.
We bought a new rig on April 16 on April 15 i had made a payment on the old loan on April 20th we picked it up. NEW PLATE NEW REGISTRATION and the insurance was flipped over with the bank registering the loan, my old loan was gone and showing a zero balance owing under the old number and a new balance was showing under the new number. And the adjustments had been made and a credit deposited to my account.

 

[SpencerPJ]

To the OP: sorry for the mess. Good luck getting the trailer you desire and the loan rate you feel you should as well. Sometimes things happen for a reason, maybe a good reason in this case. I'm not sure if you are out of pocket any money? If not, personally, I'd move on, lawyers are not cheap, and the trailer you once had is gone. Good luck

 

[Bill Nourse]

Here is an update on my issue. I posted this on FB and asked all my friends to share. I had 74 shares in one day. I also contacted the BBB who in turn has contacted the business. In addition I filed a complaint with the NM Attorney General's office. Today I was contacted by the owner of the business who advised that he had been out of town when this transaction took place and was unaware of what transpired or it would never have happened the way it did. He made a new deal with me where he discounted the unit the full amount of the down payment and secured an interest rate of 5.5%. As I am out of town right now he sent me a text with a picture of the new offer and guranteed that it would be good until May 30th. He assured me that the unit is still available and that it has my name on it. I don't know if his excuse is true or if the BBB and social media had an impact on his decision. Under present availability considerations (We cannot find this unit or another similar anywhere in the U.S. without a 90+ day wait) we are going to take the deal and move on. I am scheduled to pick it back up on May 14th when I get back in town.

 

[Oldgator73]

I hope it all works out in your favor. May the RV Gods reign down on you.

 

[Larry N.]

Here's hoping it works out well for you.

 

[Ray-IN]

Here in many of the states, we have lines to discuss what lines to get in, and meetings to discuss other meetings that should be. Sarcasm aside, where I live in Indiana, it's one of the better processes we have, as you describe. That would not happen here, the Dealers interact live with the dmv, pretty slick system.

We bought this MH from Camping World of Indianapolis, on consignment. It took CW 6 weeks to get us a title (paid cash), then only after I returned there and asked in a loud voice how to contact the state Attorneys General office. I got action right away, had title in hand 3 weeks later, and a rep from Attorneys General office business card handy.

 

[Old_Crow]

Make sure they've fixed the problems you brought it in for in the first place.

 

[SpencerPJ]

We bought this MH from Camping World of Indianapolis, on consignment. It took CW 6 weeks to get us a title (paid cash), then only after I returned there and asked in a loud voice how to contact the state Attorneys General office. I got action right away, had title in hand 3 weeks later, and a rep from Attorneys General office business card handy.

Wowze. as soon as you said Indy Camping World I felt your pain. Glad you got it sorted out. Many in the Indy area after they have been to either of the CW's, don't go back. I've learned a long time ago to never pay off anything without the title ready to transfer, keeps all parties on their toes. I'm surprised Camping World let you pay with cash, they are all about the loans.

 

[Bill Nourse]

Make sure they've fixed the problems you brought it in for in the first place.

They have assured me that it will be ready. I just think they thought I would roll over and when I went to Social Media, BBB and the Attorney General's office they decided it might be a good idea to try and make me happy.

 

[scottydl]

One more reason I avoid dealerships and financing at all costs.

 

[Gary RV_Wizard]

If you get a loan its registered by the loan company within minutes the loan holderthen sends you a computor generated firm you must then take the document the loan holder sends you along with a bill of sale to dmv to get a plate.

I think you missed the main point here - Bill never actually got a loan. He thought he had an approved loan, but it was a fiction. No loan, so nothing to register. Whether inadvertently or intentionally, the dealership let him drive away without a verified loan. That was made possible by the existence of a temporary state tag, an accommodation intended to facilitate legitimate business on nights & weekends or when there are unavoidable delays in paper transfers. Nothing wrong with that unless abused, but it was in this case. With no loan, the dealership never applied for a title in Bill's name, so the New Mexico DMV never got involved. The process should have come to a screeching halt when the loan was rejected, or at worst when the temporary tag expired (30 days after issuance in New Mexico). Not clear why that didn't happen until 6 weeks later. Malfeasance or incompetence?

I think you will find that a similar thing conceivably could have happened in Alberta if the dealer had arranged for a temporary "in-transit" permit until the final paperwork was completed. As I understand it, an Alberta in-transit permit can be issued for a test or demonstration period up to 7 days (most US states allow up to 30 days on that sort of permit). That's probably not "business as usual" in Alberta, though. Maybe that's a good thing!

 

[Lou Schneider]

Notice you'll rarely see trade-in RVs on a Camping World lot. Their business model is to go after new RVers, not more experienced ones who know better.