No more rent moving to an RV

[DonTom]

Apparently you don't know many servers.

Are you saying they are allowed to keep it, or are you only saying they get away with it?

-Don- Why, AZ

 

[TheBar]

Are you saying they are allowed to keep it, or are you only saying they get away with it?

-Don- Why, AZ

Having come from a restaurant background I believe tip pooling is theft. I help them "get away with it" as much as possible. When they bring the check I have a folded $10 or $20 ready in hand to secretly exchange for the check. Most know how to hand it off and slip the bill into their pocket. Once the server gets to know you your food will arrive quicker and you will get excellent service.

 

[TheBar]

My point is that the tips have nothing to do with getting good or poor service.

-Don- Gunsight Wash, AZ

DonTom, you are welcome to join the real world at any time. Life is better here.

 

[TheBar]

The side of that I don't like is having to create and manage literally dozens of online accounts, with many of those requiring automatic bill pay in place. So what used to be check writing sessions are now online sessions dorking with 2FA, sifting through unique statements and keeping tabs on what gets paid and when. At least with a check there aren't multiple points of access to my account. This construct of 'linked accounts' works great, until it doesn't.

Mark B.
Albuquerque, NM

I've been doing this for 20 years and I can't quite picture the dozens of accounts you are creating. I'm only creating one online account one time for water, sewer, trash, electric, natural gas, cell phone, and the 2 credit cards.

2 credit cards = 2 statements. Pay with 2 credit cards and there are only 2 points of access to your account instead of dozens.

Every check you write has your bank routing # and your account #. Write a check at Walmart and multiple people from the cashier up has your bank info, Use a credit card at Walmart and nobody even sees your credit card number much less your bank account number.

I've had my credit card numbers get stolen several times over the past 40 years. I've never had to pay for what was bought illegally. Not true if a check gets forged.

I don't have to juggle what gets paid when. Many let you choose what day your bill comes due. Being retired my SS and pensions are monthly so it really doesn't matter what gets paid when. Unless you frequently get down to a zero balance during the month.

I even get all my bills by email now instead of paper. Much easier on my old eyes plus I can conduct all my business on a large screen TV using a wireless mouse and keyboard while sitting in my recliner. This is the life of Riley.

 

[TheBar]

I'm even writing this from my recliner. This is the life of Riley.

 

[bigbAZ]

As long as the thread is drifted I'll add my .02. About 20 years ago a business banker advised me to open a separate, deposit only account to keep most of my working capital and transfer from that account what you need to cover your debits in your checking account. At the time I had both contracting business income and rental income. I still have the rental income and in a couple weeks here I will start my Social Security so this just adds a layer of protection for my money.

The bank requires a certain minimum balance and a certain number of transfers each month to remain fee free, and they can also charge if you transfer too much. This has never been a problem as you really only need to transfer a couple times a month which keeps the minimum satisfied and is well below the maximum.

I also have an instant text notification along with an email any time there is a transaction on my CC with the card not present.

 

[DonTom]

DonTom, you are welcome to join the real world at any time.

Some people will tip based on the service they receive, as not everybody understands that in most cases it is shared with the others. But then you are also tipping those who have nothing to do with your service, including the waitresses that stand around BSing all day ignoring their customers.

Are you saying this is usually not true?


-Don- Why, AZ

 

[TheBar]

Some people will tip based on the service they receive, as not everybody understands that in most cases it is shared with the others. But then you are also tipping those who have nothing to do with your service, including the waitresses that stand around BSing all day ignoring their customers.

Are you saying this is usually not true?

-Don- Why, AZ

First, I question your belief that the majority of restaurants have tip pooling. For example, in California, it is illegal for restaurant owners to share or keep employees’ tips. Tip pooling varies widely so you can't make blanket statements.

In states even where tip pooling is illegal it is common for a waitress to tip their bartender if customers order mixed drinks. Or tip a busboy to clear their tables so they don't have to do it. That may be where you get the idea that tip pooling is so common. But that is voluntary tip pooling not forced.

But I believe most restaurant owners have the common sense to not force their wait staff to surrender the majority of their tips.

If you share tips you'll have "waitresses that stand around BSing all day ignoring their customers."

Pavlov's dogs. Reward a wait person with a tip for good service and they will give increasingly good service. It's why share and share alike doesn't work. Real world Don-Tom.

 

[DonTom]

. For example, in California, it is illegal for restaurant owners to share or keep employees’ tips.

How long did that law exist? The reason I ask is around 15 years ago, I knew of a Chinese restaurant whose owner kept all the tips from his employees. It was located in Freemont, CA (east bay area).

Anyway, I realize it varies greatly. I made an assumption that they were mostly pooled as the few I heard about have been that way. I assume NV is mostly pooled.

Let me check:

Yes, tip pooling is common and legally permitted in Nevada, especially in the hospitality and restaurant industries, including Las Vegas casinos and hotels.

Key points about tip pooling in Nevada:

• Employers may establish mandatory tip pools as long as they do not keep any of the tips for themselves.
• Only employees who customarily and regularly receive tips (e.g., servers, bartenders, cocktail staff, bussers) may participate.
• Managers, supervisors, and owners are prohibited from participating in tip pools, even if they perform tipped duties.
• The pool must be distributed fairly among eligible employees, often based on hours worked or job role.
• While some establishments may allow pooling across front-of-house staff (e.g., servers sharing with bartenders), back-of-house workers like cooks or dishwashers are typically excluded.
• Nevada law does not allow employers to take a tip credit toward minimum wage, so all employees must be paid the full $12.00/hour minimum wage, regardless of tips.

 

[DonTom]

Having come from a restaurant background I believe tip pooling is theft.

What do you think about the countless restaurants that add a 20% "tip" to the bill for parties of five (or whatever number) or more?

I was in a few such places in the last couple of weeks here in CA.

How can that have anything to do with the service received? And how could that not be considered tip pooling?

-Don- Auburn, CA

 

[TheBar]

What do you think about the countless restaurants that add a 20% "tip" to the bill for parties of five (or whatever number) or more?

I was in a few such places in the last couple of weeks here in CA.

How can that have anything to do with the service received? And how could that not be considered tip pooling?

-Don- Auburn, CA

I don't agree with automatically adding a tip and I didn't do that in my restaurant. But I do understand it because many large groups either split up their check and forget about the tip, or get distracted and don't realize nobody left a tip. Or because they don't realize she might get a $10 tip from the large group but could have made $50 from separate tables during that time she took care of the large group.

Many also underestimate how much a server makes. In the 1970's when I was a restaurant manager in OKC it was not unusual for a top server in a nice restaurant to make $800 a night from tips. What is $800 adjusted for inflation today? What did a server in NYC make? I know the servers made way more than I did as manager.

I attend a retired managers lunch every month with around a dozen of us. Where we meet does not ad a surcharge for our large group. Rather than leave the tip to chance I suggested we all throw a few dollars into a pile on the table when we get up to leave. Many of us throw a 5 or 10 so our server gets more than a 20% tip which she deserves.

Tip pooling is unrelated to automatically adding a tip. Pooling is where management takes tip money away from the server to add to the cooks and dishwasher support staff salary. They do this to keep from paying competitive wages to the support staff and increase their own profit. If all that money actually goes to the support staff instead of the managers pocket.

Pooling is stealing from the server in my opinion. When most people leave a tip it is because they got great service. Not because the dishes were clean. If customers feel the food was prepared beyond normal expectations it is not uncommon at all for customers to forward a tip to the chef in finer restaurants.

 

[Gary RV_Wizard]

Like TheBar, I have some experience in the restaurant business and my daughter worked most of her life as a server, bartender, and later manager. In restaurants, nightclubs, & pubs running the gamut from high class to dive. Everything Bar says matches my own - and her - experience and views. Especially about the typically poor tipping from large groups, even though they consume a lot more service time & effort.

 

[DonTom]

. But I do understand it because many large groups either split up their check and forget about the tip, or get distracted and don't realize nobody left a tip

Things like that are why I think the tip should always be put into the price.

I find the service to be great overseas in places where they do not expect tips. That is in most of the world. Even has a big advantage, IMO, use any waiter at any time.

Another thing I am noticing these days is that every restaurant, when getting food to go, will ask for a tip in one way or the other. Usually by needing to sign a credit card where they are asking to add on a tip. Or at least have a jar to add tips. IOW, pay the tip even when no service.

FWIW, I noticed the local Jack in the Box here does that with the sales tax. The price on the menu is the price that is paid to the penny.

-Don- Auburn, CA

 

[TheBar]

"Things like that are why I think the tip should always be put into the price."

Tips encourage the server to go the extra mile and build comradery with their customers. To the point I had customers quit my place and follow a server to a competing restaurant.

At our favorite restaurants I always leave a generous cash tip. I palm a 10 or 20 to them when handing them my credit card. You can tell if they have tip pooling because they know exactly how to slip the bill into their pocket unnoticed. Kind of like reverse pick-pocketing.

We eventually have a waiter or two that we get to know. They memorize our order and make sure we get generous portions prepared properly.

Another thing I am noticing these days is that every restaurant, when getting food to go, will ask for a tip in one way or the other.

But you do realize when the phone rings the nearest person is expected to answer. Which may be a server who takes the order, boxes up the meal and includes condiments, plastic silverware, napkins, drinks, etc. A to-go order is actually more work and a higher cost than in-house meals. There again, if you are a regular customer and regularly tip you may build a relationship with a server who will recognize your name and make sure your order is correct.

 

[DonTom]

. A to-go order is actually more work and a higher cost than in-house meals.

Sounds like another reason to include the tips into the price.

. A to-go order is actually more work and a higher cost than in-house meals.

Yes, I do realize that. So why do so many people believe we should not tip for food to go?

There is a Vietnamese restaurant near here that I go to about once per week The name of it is "Pho King Good!" And it really is Pho King Good! Anyway, I always dine in and have the Lemon Grass Chicken on noodles, but I also order perhaps as many as three Vietnamese sandwiches to go while I am eating there. I realize those sandwiches are more difficult to make and more time consuming than my dine-in order. So I do tip the entire bill which is around $50.00, or $60.00 with my ten buck tip. So I am not the problem. But many people believe you should not tip for food to go.

Adding it into the price makes it fair to all. If you were running a restaurant, you probably have noticed some people will not tip at all, yet their service was excellent.

I assume you have seen it all. But I think the fairest system is to add it into the bill and that way everybody is tipping without paying an extra tip--as they do in most countries.

-Don- Auburn, CA

 

[TheBar]

But I think the fairest system is to add it into the bill and that way everybody is tipping without paying an extra tip--as they do in most countries.

-Don- Auburn, CA

The reason so many countries don't tip is most of the world has to work to survive. People who don't excel don't have jobs and don't survive. So their work ethic is much higher like the USA was 60 years ago.

Here people can choose not to work at all and still get free food and shelter. Its very hard to find people willing to work at low wages. And most are very unmotivated and self entitled thinking they should be management. We need incentives like tips to get any extra effort from them.

 

[Gary RV_Wizard]

Also, here in the USA the pay scale is adjusted (downward) where tips can be expected. Federal minimum for a tipped position is only $2.13/hr, but most states are higher. Varies by state, but always less than the minimum for a non-tipped job. Our system actually penalizes those who get tips.
As with anything else, some workers try to do an exemplary job, some avoid work like the plague, and most are somewhere in between. Too often I see the attitude that tips are expected rather than earned. And that attitude often shows to the point where they receive lesser tips than others who put some effort into the service.

Even servers who have a good ethic & attitude get some lousy tips (or none at all) and they feel really let down. And when they have to kick in a share of their tip to others who may or may not have helped it hurts. And then there is the "tip out", where the server has to pay a fixed percentage of their gross sales to other staff whether they actually got tipped or not. They actually lose money serving a customer who tips little or nothing.

 

[Larry N.]

And then there is the "tip out", where the server has to pay a fixed percentage of their gross sales to other staff whether they actually got tipped or not.

This should be illegal...

 

[DonTom]

This should be illegal...

Another reason to not have tipping at all.

It should all be adjust to come out the same or very close to it. IOW, the restaurants and employees should not win or lose if we go to no tipping. Everybody should be taking home the same amount or very close to it.

-Don- Auburn, CA

 

[TheBar]

Another reason to not have tipping at all.

It should all be adjust to come out the same or very close to it. IOW, the restaurants and employees should not win or lose if we go to no tipping. Everybody should be taking home the same amount or very close to it.

-Don- Auburn, CA

Not everyone is doing the same amount of work in a restaurant. Most rotate servers so everyone gets a chance at the best tables for tipping. Choice tables generally have a high turnover so the servers work harder the nights they get them. New servers don't get those tables until they have proven themselves. And weekend nights may do 3x the business of weeknights.

Dishwashers are so efficient and automated a chimpanzee could wash the dishes. They typically get a 20 minute break every hour. They are getting paid minimum wage or better for one of the easiest jobs on the planet. They certainly don't deserve tips stolen from the servers.

If you've ever been a restaurant manger in the USA you wouldn't have such a high opinion of everyone's work ethic. I was a manager in the 70's and work ethic certainly hasn't improved since then. For high profile customers I waited tables myself and also to keep in touch with server's problems. Which made me a better manager. I loved the job and was very successful. But the long hours required meant my wife didn't always recognize me and our dog growled at me.

Think of the socialistic communes in the '60s where everyone was supposed to do an equal amount of work. But only a half dozen out of 100 did all the work and the others took advantage of them. The communes didn't last long because of human nature.