Older Tiffin Class A vs. newer models - advice?

[Isaac-1]

The other alternative is that NADA / JD Powers is useless on older RV's, when I bought my current coach in 2016, I had spent nearly 6 months searching for one of a couple of specific models of coaches within a 1,500 mile radius, in that time I missed out on a couple that sold the same day they were listed for $1,000 - $2,000 above NADA, I considered one coach that was listed at $3,200 above NADA, however it was sitting at a long term site in the Mountains of NC, and had not moved in 2+ years since having its brakes go out getting to the camp ground. In the end I bought my coach for $5,200 above NADA which was $4,500 below initial asking, and I lucked into it less than 48 hours after it was listed, which I consider a bargain given that it had received over $10,000 in upgrade in parts alone in the preceding 2 years (tires, batteries, refrigerator, suspension upgrades, new carpet, new seating, etc.).

 

[Larry N.]

but the ones we've been looking at are all asking 10K plus over average retail.

Unfortunately, inflation, plus the lack of accurate data being used for that "average retail" means that whatever figures you find online for RVs are, at best, out of date or otherwise flawed. A little more useful is actual selling prices on sites such as Used RVs, Motorhomes for Sale, and Consigned sales | PPL Motor Homes who mostly sell on consignments but post actual sold prices. There's other good info there, too.

 

[Gary RV_Wizard]

Gary, while my gut agrees with you, that $26,000 seems excessive for a 20 year old gas class A, and does not seem like a bargain, the reality of the market I am seeing out there disagrees with this.

This similar year & size coach just went up for sale on this site @ $14,500.

Rexhall Vision 2000 27' Motor Home for sale: $14,500 Sebastopol, California

27’ Rexhall (Ford Chassis) Vision (2000) Motor Home: only 30,000 miles. V10 Motor; Queen size bed; 4 person table and seats (folds into second bed) plus lounge chair; Norcold fridge with freezer (electric and propane modes), 3 burner stove, microwave, water heater, double sink, ample in unit and...

www.rvforum.net

 

[Gary RV_Wizard]

Gary, while my gut agrees with you, that $26,000 seems excessive for a 20 year old gas class A, and does not seem like a bargain, the reality of the market I am seeing out there disagrees with this.

Sheesh! I never said "excessive". By saying it's "not a bargain", I imply the price is nearer top dollar than low end, but that's not the same as "excessive", is it? Top dollar is what I meant and I'll stick with that.

 

[rgnprof]

We went and looked at a 2015 FR3 - had a lot of things we liked but overall we weren't impressed and walked away with more questions (it was a PPL consignment and I didn't have a good feeling about the situation). They were asking $55K - really low miles, too low??

I have checked numerous ones against the 'blue book' and most are consistently way over the blue book price. Started looking at Treks and they are really overpriced - at least according to Avg Retail values on JD Power (again, I am aware of the concerns thinking this way about prices, but I just don't have the experience to have devloped a 'price radar'). Some of the Treks are asking for $20-20K ABOVE the average retail values - regardless of the veracity of NADA etc - that price difference seems extraordinary. I did look at the link provided by Larry but I can't find anywhere what those units actually sold for.

We keep coming back around to this Neptune (see link below) - but it is priced $20K above the average retail. What's a reasonable price range here?

https://www.rvtrader.com/listing/2003-Holiday+Rambler-Neptune+30PBD-5025692743

Thanks!

 

[Professor David]

We keep coming back around to this Neptune (see link below) - but it is priced $20K above the average retail. What's a reasonable price range here?

IMO...over priced by at least the 20K...maybe more? Looks rough around the edges from pictures. If I understand correctly...the ad says...always garaged (but then adds...since 2015). Looks about right based on the rust below the basement storage.

 

[Kirk]

What's a reasonable price range here?

With any RV that is 20 years old, or even close to that the condition of the RV is everything. That could be a dream come true or it could be a nightmare or anywhere in between. Until you have seen it in person and/or had it professionally inspected by a certified inspector, you will only be guessing about what might be a reasonable price. The best price is the one that makes both the seller and the buyer happy and keeps them that way.

 

[Isaac-1]

Since you bring up Treks, let me post this as an example of what is wrong with NADA / JD Powers:

2001 Safari Trek Series M-2830-Vortec Wide Track Prices

2001 Safari Trek Series M-2830-Vortec Wide Track Prices and Used Values | J.D. Power

www.jdpower.com

Note the $108,000 MSRP and the $10,700 average retail (was $15,150 from at least 2016-2021, then went up a bit)

Now compare that to an entry level Fleetwood Flair of similar vintage with a $59,000 MSRP and the same $10,700 average retail price 1998 Flair-Fleetwood M-27R (Chevrolet) Prices

What these 2 coaches have in common is they are both built on the P30 series chassis are under 32 feet long, and don't have any slides, JD Powers lumps all coaches with these traits together and give them one arbitrary price.

The Fleetwood Flair being an entry level coach with vinyl graphics, particle board cabinet work, plastic plumbing fixtures, rubber roof, etc. compared to the Trek which was one of the few higher end gas coaches of the era, has full body paint on an aircraft aluminum body, either Filon or aircraft Aluminum roof, hardwood cabinet work, either solid surface or Fiberglass plumbing fixtures (which are far less likely to crack with age), etc.

There is a reason that when new the Trek had an MSRP of nearly double the Fleetwood Flair, and that same reason should reflect in used selling prices for 2 coaches in good condition today, perhaps more importantly you are far more likely to find a Trek in good condition than a Flair, simply due to it being built with more durable materials, real metal sink faucets vs plastic, full body paint vs vinyl graphics, etc.

 

[Gary RV_Wizard]

I don't think the price is out of line if the condition is excellent, but it would be top dollar. If there are shortcomings, it could just as well be $10k-$15k overpriced. You can't tell just looking at photos, an eyes-on inspection is required. The price difference between "great" and "average" is on the order of $5k-$7.5k. I think you would be hard-pressed to get a decent diesel pusher class A under $30k.

The Neptune wasn't a high end model to begin with, but all the HR/Monaco coaches were pretty nicely equipped and furnished. And if you want a used diesel pusher under 34 ft your choices are going to be limited - there simply weren't that many sold originally. That fact alone tends to add value IF you are that buyer. Conversely, the relatively low demand for shorter DPs might give you some negotiation leverage with the seller.

 

[Isaac-1]

I agree there is a certain price premium on those shorter diesel pushers, all you have to do is look at the asking prices for those brands that offered 32, 34 and 36 foot coaches in the same model family, and you will see that the shorter they are the higher the asking price, which is exactly backwards from their MSRP new prices.

 

[rgnprof]

Ok - thought I would provide a brief update (in case any of you were sitting on the edge of your seat - ha!).

I took someone's advice on here (I think - Isaac??) - we researched and researched and settled on just a couple of models. We decided floor plan was most important and started prioritizing from there. We settled - mostly - on bunkbed models, and particularly the Fleetwood Storm 32H or 32BH.

We have found several but are working with a private seller in CA...the interesting part here is that they just had a brand new motor put in the rig - from the Ford Dealership, for $18k+. It's got the Ford V10 Triton and they sent me the invoice from the work. The work order indicates a blown piston #3 and they also replaced the intake manifold. They have only put maybe 20 miles on it since then. Evidently, they were planning on selling it already, discovered the blown motor and decided to fix it (I think they've already bought a newer, bigger coach).

Would this cause any of you worry? The price is in our ballpark and compares nicely to the JD Power values (not like a lot of the others discussed previously in this thread).

BTW, the odometer reads 46,000 on the coach. The only thing that "worries" me - 30 amp service with only 1 AC. Seems undersized for a 32 ft coach. Not sure how hard (costly) it would be to upgrade to 50 amps, or if it's even possible.

Thanks for reading!
ryan

 

[Isaac-1]

It depends on the cause of the initial failure, as I recall some years ago there was a Workhorse 8.1L coach I think taken to Brazels in Washington with a bad engine (I think it was a Safari Trek), they replaced the engine and within not many miles it blew as well, and a 3rd engine was needed, somewhere around this point it was discovered that the underlying cause for the engine failures was a bad MAF sensor, which was not replaced with each new engine, causing them to go lean and destroy pistons.

The 1 air conditioner and 30 amp service in a 32 ft coach is a bit worrying to me as about the only reason to do this is to cut cost, and I have to wonder where else cost was cut, ie particle board cabinet work held together with staples? So sure a single air conditioner may be fine for a 32 ft coach if you live in norther / cooler climates, however if you don't you will likely not be comfortable, our 28 ft coach has a single (recently replaced) 15K btu air conditioner, as well as 50 amp electrical and is better insulated than many coaches, yet even this week in Missouri with highs in the upper 80's ours struggles to maintain temperatures inside in the mid 70's in the daytime when parked at a site with little shade. Putting awnings out, and magna Shade screen on the windshield does help some with this, but that is not always practical.

 

[rgnprof]

Thank you Isaac. I forgot to mention that the new engine comes with a 3 year unlimited mileage warranty...

And I've seen a ton of similar 32ft rigs with the same - or really close to the same - layout, with only 1 AC, and not just by Fleetwood.

From what I've read, converting from 30 to 50 amp is an expensive task - maybe a little cheaper if 50 amp was offered as an "option" on this model, but I can't seem to find that information.

 

[Laura & Charles]

For me, 32’ and one A/C unit would be a nonstarter. Our first coach was 38’ and two A/Cs and it didn’t manage mid 80s good enough for our comfort. We added window awnings to driver’s side and that helped some. (We admittedly like it cooler than most.) Current coach is 44’+ and has three A/Cs and manages to keep us cool in most all climates. (Though we certainly feel it in our wallet when we’re at a place with metered electric service.)

 

[Professor David]

Would this cause any of you worry? The price is in our ballpark and compares nicely to the JD Power values (not like a lot of the others discussed previously in this thread).

BTW, the odometer reads 46,000 on the coach. The only thing that "worries" me - 30 amp service with only 1 AC. Seems undersized for a 32 ft coach. Not sure how hard (costly) it would be to upgrade to 50 amps, or if it's even possible.

Yes, the engine going even with an 18K engine replacement would have me concerned. I would be questioning why it went out at such low miles.
Also, upgrading to 50 amp and the purchase of an additional AC unit could be quite costly. You might want to keep looking.

 

[Onyrlef]

Thank you Isaac. I forgot to mention that the new engine comes with a 3 year unlimited mileage warranty...

And I've seen a ton of similar 32ft rigs with the same - or really close to the same - layout, with only 1 AC, and not just by Fleetwood.

From what I've read, converting from 30 to 50 amp is an expensive task - maybe a little cheaper if 50 amp was offered as an "option" on this model, but I can't seem to find that information.

I noticed you're in OKlahoma, a 32' w/1 15K A/C in that territory would mean you're going to have to make some adjustments. If you plan to travel and camp in this neck of the woods (I'm not far from you) during summer just be advised a 15K in a 30 amp coach, out of the box, isn't going to keep your coach habitable from about 3pm - sundown and you won't be able to run the a/c while operating most any other appliance with any appreciable amp draw.

 

[_Rusty_]

I would just like to add that my '04 Tiffin Allegro Bay is great! Bought in '15 I have probably had my share of failures, but so far so good. I shy away from "New car prices", and same here. Keep looking until you find what you want!

 

[Bo Walker]

rgnprof, We once owned a 34 foot 1996 Winnebago Adventurer. It had two AC units. It was a 30 amp. But we could run one AC (either) while on shore power. We could run both AC units using the generator without shore power.​

 

[rgnprof]

Just wanted to come back and post a follow-up. We drove out to CA last week and drove home with the 2015 Fleetwood Storm 32H. Did a lot of upfront work before we left - talked to the dealer who installed the new engine, confirmed the 3 year, unlimited mileage warranty, etc. My 2 major concerns BEFORE the purchase were the 1 AC and the generator cutting off when it overheats (due to proximity to engine). Drove the coach 1400 miles home with no problems, and we are very happy with our purchase. Just had a good feeling about the couple we bought it from and that was confirmed once we got there. Pretty extensive maintenance just completed last summer - oil, transmission, power steering, brake fluid, coolant, front wheel bearings, 2 new AGM house batteries, etc. Coach is really in great shape!

We did notice a few things on the way home - the tendency to downshift and run at 4000-4500 rpms can be a bit unnerving and I am 'considering' the 5 star tune. Hate the jack knife and already have plans to replace, and we're having to get used to the absorption refrigerator all over (we had converted to a residential in our class C and installed a 2000 watt inverter). Wife really liked the old fridge...considering a replacement, but not sure where and how I would route an inverter.

I know there's a kit to help the generator problem - but I can't find it anywhere. And installing a 2nd AC is very doable, if needed. The breaker box is ready to be upgraded to 50A and the wires are there for a 2nd AC, although we were quite pleased with the AC performance on the way home (granted, we didn't run in to 100F weather...)

Thanks!