onan generator wont start

[ogtwizsfv]

excited greetings to everyone-
the generator in my 95 Southwind Storm - the onan microlite 4000 model to be precise - has just started giving me a little ( i hope ) bit of a problem - well taken care of with one previous owner keeping up with proper maintenance, had approx 500 hours when I took ownership and is now at 1210 running hours. model# 4kyfa26100B serial# f943166583
problem-
when i started it earlier in the day i had the engine on so it was a bit noisy so i wasnt certain but it sounded as it was having a irregular time turning over and eventually (after a not so ordinaryly loud crashing bang) and started up as far as i could tell like normal.
but after about 2 hours runtime ran out of fuel and shut off.
later that evening (at least 6 hours later) now refueled - i attempted to use the starting switch inside the coach on my dashboard - and nothing. no clicks or attempts to turn over. worried - i quickly went outside and opened it up to give the other starting button a go ( it also made no progress either ) but once i removed the hood - or the outer panel of the generator - there appeared to be smoke had been made recently. so i was thankful i acted so quickly instead of trying to coerce some life out of the inside button by pressing it a few (dozen ) more times.
now before going any further i thought i would read up on - anything i havent already learned so far troubleshooting everything as it occurs - before going back out and narrowing it down precisely.
any thoughts ?
- i seen first off people going for the battery and/or electrical for such a starter related problem. which seems the best place to start especially with possible electrical caused smoke produced when attemtping to start the generator. and as far as i know my coach batteries are close to - if not fully - charged. i say this because my current and always present daily priorities include : eating, sleeping, walk dog, generator fuel, but also extra fuel for the engine which needs periodic running to charge the batteries enough to keep not only the fridge running through the night, the gas detector, but power for the generator as well. besides my coach battery charging problems they should be properly charged at the time .
-but also something caught my eye - someone mentioned having too thick of oil - which concerned me ( as well as gave me even more questions ) because just the other day - perhaps 2 - i topped off the oil as i normally do after every so often days runtime - but having finished the previous , and recommended, bottle of 10/30 oil, topped it off with a few splashed of 10/40 i had. i didnt notice the difference at the time and was under the asumption it was another bottle of 10 / 30, but like i said only filled a few slashed in to top it off and it wasnt all that much to cause me any worry. until seeing someone mention thick oil
but before i decide to go the wrong way troubleshooting and change the oil i think i will check under the hood for electircal smoke near the batteries , before moving onto closer inspection of the inside components of the onan.
thank you to anyone that even possess the attention span required to read my ramblings all the way through - and are able to lend me any knowledge towards fixing this problem

 

[ogtwizsfv]

update
after conducting my first inspection in attempt to narrow down exactly what the cause may be- after checking battery charge and any clues such as burnt wires and such, i took out the air filter to take a look at it and noticed what appears to be oil? all over not only the outside cover but inside the air filter compartment ( around the filter itself on the plastic entrance inside the engine or wherever air travels to after passing through the filter ) gave the filter a few taps on the ground - the recommended technique for cleaning such a filter , so ive read, opposed to using air or air compressor with high powered air to clean the filter. but the filter - as it is everytime i attempt to clean it using the tap method - left no discharge behind whatsoever, leaving me to believe it can be nothing other than clean.
-except not being able to recall any previous issues with oil - or oil like substance- in this oil free zone before, added to my newly read concern regarding oil being too thick - has me a bit worried.
closer inspection reveals behind and below the air filter, inside the generator compartment to be saturated- almost dripping- in the same oil-like liquid. becoming close to being very worried now.
underneath the generator compartment below the RV i can see droplets forming underneath in the very back on the wall - lining of the generator compartment / structure. so there is a abundance of what appears and what i can only assume to be oil inside the generator housing and condensing in such a way as water would condense its way to the outside of the very same structure.
has anyone encountered a problem like this ?

 

[darsben]

I read your post. I am no help at this moment. but thinking

Your service manual is at
https://www.manualslib.com/manual/1271955/Onan-Microlite-4000-Series.html#manual

 

[SpencerPJ]

If you ran it out of gas, it will take a bit of cranking to get gas back too it.
Is it possible the plugs are fouled?
Did you try and start it with air filter off?

 

[skydivemark1]

If there's oil all over the gen compartment, first thing I would do is try to find the source of the oil - and check the oil to be sure it didn't run low and seize. Some have low oil shutdown, some don't.

 

[ogtwizsfv]

running it out of fuel is a daily occurance,  i re route the gas line to hang down into a seperate 5gallon gas can to just simplify things. so it usually fires up after fuel starts flowing in the line again
but now its not cranking or clicking or any signs of life whatsoever when i attempt to start it...

and as far as the oil... i dont know if im just noticing things that have always been like they are now only im worried and seeing everything in a new negative light. but the oil in the air filter im certain hasnt occured like this before. and the oil was never out or running low, i always top it off every so often so it hardly ever gets to half way full.
..

 

[ogtwizsfv]

after closer inspection - update
realizing no one in their right mind would be able to offer much help going off entirely reading my convoluted, mostly off topic , boarderline rantings that i had initially posted last night- after seeking a second opinion to help inspect the genset - hopefully i will be able to steer this thread back on track so it can obtain a successful outcome, or at the very least feel productive.
So im still completely dead in the water. the start button(both of them) produce absolutely zero response. No cranking, no life at all- not good. The oil has never ran low or empty - if anything it looks quite the opposite- there is oil everywhere. i have taken a rag before and wiped surfaces clean( cleaner at least) and soaked up oil collecting, pooling in the bottom pan- and have since noticed a slick shine. but having seen the air filter with oil inside, i am now noticing much more oil than before. again pooling down in the pan beneath the generator components, and sprayed ( im assuming by the fan ) all over everything else on the inside. even making its way onto the outer casing of the genset.
-So still stuck and baffled to why i am getting no response when trying to crank the engine on- i have stepped back to attemp to figure out the cause to the problem altogether which i think is the oil leak that must be occurring somewhere inside this expensive, important, even vital box of lawnmowers that i must restore back to working order.
unable currently ( because its nighttime , and the little fact i dont have the exact knowledge how or even what tools ) to pull the generator out from its mount on the RV, hopefully as i begin to clean everything i am able to reach and search to uncover the next clues to my problem - hopefully during that time someone will be able to throw their hat in the ring and have the answers i really need. im at zero, wanna be my hero? lol but seriously you guys are great thank you for not deleting my post last night for pure lack of sanity . thanks

 

[john owens]

Probably not gonna be of too much help but...two things come to mind on my end..PERHAPS your chassis batterys are of insuffient charge to crank up the genny..Number 2 is maybe the genny has TOO much oil in it..and its spitting it out where it can. Or else maybe the seals are shot and your leaking oil out. Try and get a blow up drawing of your model and look for oil seal locations. Good Luck let us know what you find out.

 

[darsben]

first step Is to figure out if you have power to the 2  big cables that come to the Genny from the battery.
If yes does your Genny have a glass fuse on the Genny to protect the starting circuit? Is it good?

Can you pull a plug easily and check it's condition? That may tell volumes

The oil might be blowing into the compartment because the crankcase ventilation is plugged. Check the service manual.
Those might be good place to start without pulling the whole Genny.

In the manual I referred to previously look on page 75 section 8-8 tell me what you think.

 

[ogtwizsfv]

ok that could be helpful - because my initial thought lead me to search for any electrical issues i could see from starter over to the chassis batteries - and all connections and cables in between. but i was not able to find any visible issues that i would say caused my problem. and the batteries themselves do have enough charge to start the generator - im assuming, short of using a volt meter, but because i strive to keep them charged so my refrigerator, water pump occasionally, and inside lights are usable throughout the night - but also most importantly still leaving enough charge to crank the RV engine in the morning to start the charging cycle all over again.

but your idea of looking for diagrams to locate any seals and such is real helpful for my search for this oil leak i must have.

as far as i can tell the connections from the batteries to the generator are in working order. but i am currently in the process of checking the spark plug as you mentioned - but i am having to learn how to do it on youtube first, of course.
ok and i am looking at the crankcase section of the manual too you pointed out, so i will report back with any progress as it is made thankyou

 

[John From Detroit]

If it is not cranking, not clicking, not making any sound at all.. One of 3 conditions exist and without knowing more about the Generator I am not sure of the 3rd (And most expensive) one.

In suspect order
One: No 12 volts to Generator (Dead battery tripped breaker bad connection see below)
Two: Switches defective or a wire has come loose inside the Unit (The start wire)
Three: Bad control board in generator (This is the one I do not know about).

To test.  Somewhere on the generator should be a big wire terminal with a RED cap (At least on mine it has a red cap).  now you can use a 12 volt test light or you can use a volt meter

Meter from that connection to the generator chassis. if nothing or very low reading meter to the motor home chassis (Could be bad ground on genny to RV). 

if still bad. Then check the battery itself.  IF good. follow the 12 volt line from the battery (Biggest one most likely) and keep going along this line till the light goes out.

IF YOU HAVE.. An Intelletec Battery Control System

AUX is the house battery.. MAIN is the main engine chassis battery.. GENERATOR is the house (Liights. Furnace. Water pump. Control systems) and the Generator. 

THere may be a pair of PUSH TO RESET (push very hard to reset) Circuit breakers in the BOTTOM (THey stick out through the bottom) of that box (The BCC boc) if you have one. 

 

[ogtwizsfv]

Ok that?s good stuff I?m going to go test the 12 v, I already have in mind the red cap you are referring to. But also , this is dumb, when I was saying ?no clicking? I was referring to during the cranking process when I hear it normally . With that said when I press the start button I get a single click and that is it, unless I press the start switch again then I receive one more single click. So with that being said would I still want to assume the switch itself could have gone bad, or one of its connections ?
Also - this battery control system your talking about, is this the same that I have on my dash next to my steering column that says ? battery disconnect? with two switches : aux / main? Could hitting one of those off be causing it? But then I probably wouldn?t have lights or anything inside the coach, and in the past that button would turn the genny off if it was running , I?m not sure about keeping it from turning back on tho...

 

[captsteve1]

Im not completely familiar with that model but if there is an easy way to get to the flywheel, I would see if I could spin the engine by hand and make sure it is not seized.

 

[ogtwizsfv]

Ok so I took off the crank case cover , the reed blowback valve plate thing looks to be fine no damage whatsoever, and the breather hose is clear. Appears to be in working order , which I?m not sure why you sugggested to check because there was oil coming out of my air filter so that would lead me to believe it was already doing it?s job- but oh well now we know. The only thing I would question is the fact there is no type of seal between the crank case and the cover - I was looking to inspect it to find leaks but come to find out there isn?t one ? Is there supposed to be one?

Besides that I am starting to think I topped it off recently with a bit too much oil; and perhaps too thick as well, ( 10/40 instead of the usual 10/30) but when I did so I hardly put any at all to make me think something like this would happen... could happen ? I know too much oil or too little can **** the genny down, but then keep it from cranking back on? So I drained as much of the oil as I could with a tube and my mouth piece , as good of a redneck oil change as I can manage without removing the whole thing from the RV? I?m going to continue to put this back together and put some cleaner 10/30 oil back in there, carefully measured of course, and attempt to clean the rest of the oil from everywhere that I can reach. We will see what happens

 

[darsben]

I was thinking that the tube from the crankcase ventilation  goes back to the carb for the gasses etc to be burned. I thought maybe if the reed was sticking the tubing would carry oil spray back to the filter area giving you the oil on the filter. Plus a common cause of seal leakage is the crankcase ventilation not working and pressurizing the system.

 

[SpencerPJ]

Ok so I took off the crank case cover , the reed blowback valve plate thing looks to be fine no damage whatsoever, and the breather hose is clear. Appears to be in working order , which I?m not sure why you sugggested to check because there was oil coming out of my air filter so that would lead me to believe it was already doing it?s job- but oh well now we know. The only thing I would question is the fact there is no type of seal between the crank case and the cover - I was looking to inspect it to find leaks but come to find out there isn?t one ? Is there supposed to be one?

Besides that I am starting to think I topped it off recently with a bit too much oil; and perhaps too thick as well, ( 10/40 instead of the usual 10/30) but when I did so I hardly put any at all to make me think something like this would happen... could happen ? I know too much oil or too little can **** the genny down, but then keep it from cranking back on? So I drained as much of the oil as I could with a tube and my mouth piece , as good of a redneck oil change as I can manage without removing the whole thing from the RV? I?m going to continue to put this back together and put some cleaner 10/30 oil back in there, carefully measured of course, and attempt to clean the rest of the oil from everywhere that I can reach. We will see what happens

All fine and dandy, but has nothing to do with it not cranking.
My bet is that a wire has come loose, or connection.  Next take a small hammer and tap the starter, while hitting the start button.  My bet is the starter, or starter solenoid, or red positive connection to the starter, or ground.

 

[ogtwizsfv]

hmmm okay so tried everything so far and still not getting any engine cranking ,,
while trying the tap the started remedy while pressing the start switch - which is very difficult and not possible for me at least to strike firm enough because of its placement at the very back of the generator and the low clearance reaching all the way to it- but i wont know because only hitting it a little and trying to start it was causing a bad burning odor that really concerns me , so could this be the starter burning out - or something else. either way i am not making much progress, despite my capabilities and determination so i might have to bite the bullet and have someone look at it because luckily its been nice and cool this weekend, but monday is forecasted to return to normal scorching heat which doesnt work out.
but i do appreciate everyones thoughts and ideas very much thankyou 

 

[SpencerPJ]

'Bad Burning Odor'  not good.  Could be starter, could be starter solenoid, and I feel uncomfortable telling you how to bypass the solenoid to test it.  I would get some local professional help.  Good luck.

 

[sc4668]

Have you removed the spark plug and see if the cylinder is full of oil. The fact that engine will not turn over and the starter smokes tells me the engine is frozen up either cylinder full of oil or something broken internal to engine. If the cylinder is full of oil leave the spark plug out and try to crank the engine.

 

[Deano2002]

on my onan genset you can turn the engine over (if you have room) with a large allen wrench at the end of the generator side of the unit. If it was running just fine when it ran out of gas or you shut it down, I doubt the engine is locked up. Have you tried to hook direct to a spare battery by passing the coach batteries? That will eliminate some concern, if the engine was locked up the starter solenoid should still click when trying to start it.