PD9260C Charger No Longer Working Correctly?

[bilmet01]

Hello. I have a PD9260C converter that I believe was originally installed in my 2015 Forest River Forester MBS. I have noticed since beginning of last fall time frame that it is putting out only "normal mode" charging ( 13.6V-13.8V ) no matter how long I am hooked up to shore power. Also, I have not seen any 14.4 volt charging when first pugged into shore power either like I used to see ( only when running generator or engine ). I had monitored during winter storage with RV plugged into shore power and was never seeing drop down to "storage" mode ( ~13.2V ) so I continually disconnected / connected shore power ( using in house switch ) to avoid any chance of over charging batteries to much.

So my question is is this a sign that my converter is on the way out and that I should think about installing the latest PD9360V model from Progressive Dynamics? Also, since I will be start camping soon including a 3 week trip with campground hookups ( in between 14.4 charging while engine is running ) do I need to be concerned that continual 13.8V charging at campground will hurt my ~4 yr old AGM batteries?

 

[Rene T]

I’m leaving this to the experts. The only input I would have is did you try a different meter?

 

[Kirk]

From the Progressive Dynamics website:

1 Converter Output Voltage Test​

1. Using a 5/32 Allen wrench, loosen the screw and disconnect the Negative Battery wire from the RV converter Negative Output Terminal (see below).
2. Connect 120 VAC Shore Power to the RV.
3. Connect a Digital Voltmeter to the proper Positive and Negative terminals on the front of the converter.
4. The voltage should read 13.6-volts (14.6 for Lithium models) +/- .3-volts DC. If the voltage is in this range, the converter is good.

 

[John From Detroit]

It has been a while since I looked at the manual but I think if the battery is full. or near full it won't go to "Boost" mode for over 20 hours (Then only for like fifteen minutes,, Equalization/disulfate mode)

If the batteries are reading full charge even after 30 minutes of Converter disabled (and normal "Standby loads only" I'd worry not.

Hey Saturday I was in Marshall MI (First time in a decade at least) and pulled off into a lot to make sure I was on the correct road.. Soon as I looked at the building I knew right where I was

Old US-27 (not called 227) and Industrial.. The Sign on the building... Progressive Dynamics (Enter off Industrial by the way)

 

[DonTom]

"normal mode" charging ( 13.6V-13.8V ) no matter how long I am hooked up to shore power.

Sounds about right to me, I would expect around 13.3 to 13.6 VDC max on a lead acid when fully charged up and still connected to the converter.

Let the battery discharge a bit and then you should see well above 13.8 VDC as then then you will have some real charging voltage.

Unplug your converter AC input for a few hours and use ONLY the battery. Then after a few hours, plug it back in and see some real charging voltage.

IOW, you get less voltage on a fully charged battery that is connected to the converter.

You can also disconnect the battery from the converter for an hour and measure the battery only voltage and you will most likely see it is fully charged at 12.7 VDC

Do not expect a fully charged battery to have as much voltage connected to the converter when fully charged. You cannot charge a fully charged battery so do not expect your converter to do such. It's job then is to keep it charged.

-Don- Tonopah, NV

 

[DonTom]

It has been a while since I looked at the manual but I think if the battery is full. or near full it won't go to "Boost" mode for over 20 hours (Then only for like fifteen minutes,, Equalization/disulfate mode)

If the batteries are reading full charge even after 30 minutes of Converter disabled (and normal "Standby loads only" I'd worry not.

Hey Saturday I was in Marshall MI (First time in a decade at least) and pulled off into a lot to make sure I was on the correct road.. Soon as I looked at the building I knew right where I was

Old US-27 (not called 227) and Industrial.. The Sign on the building... Progressive Dynamics (Enter off Industrial by the way)

We were typing our replies at the same time. It sounds to me like there is nothing wrong other than the testing procedure and expecting a fully charged battery to have more voltage than when it is really charging. If the battery current was left as high at a full charge, the battery would not last long, so the voltage drops at full charge when still connected to the converter.

-Don- Tonopah, NV

 

[bilmet01]

Thanks for the input. I had already confirmed that the voltage coming out of the converter terminals was at 13.8 ( matching what is seen at the both the AGM batteries as well as at the solenoid ). It may be very true that no longer seeing ~14.4V when first plugged into shore power simply because the batteries have been close to fully charged since winter. Mainly concerned about not seeing switch to "storage mode" ( ~13.2 ) from yesterday afternoon shore plug in to this afternoon with no loads on the batteries. I thought maybe after 11 years the converter might just not be functioning properly.

I double checked notes I had kept from winter and it looks like I did actually record one time the voltage ~13.3V after being plugged in for at least a couple of days? I also did read something from Progressive about 24-30 hrs before entering storage mode for PD9260C? I had called Progressive support earlier today but just got recording to leave message and no call back so far. :-(

So I am currently plugged into shore power again after 1st verifying fully charges batteries at ~12.7V. Will wait at least couple of days to see if charging goes down closer to ~13.2V.

Thanks,
Bill

 

[DonTom]

charging ( 13.6V-13.8V )

My batteries are fully charged, being at the RV park overnight. So I just checked their voltages under "normal" conditions, still connected.

My house battery measures 13.65VDC (two six volt LA batteries in serries). IOW, about same as yours for voltage.

My engine battery is a single 12V LA, measures 13.35 VDC.

They are both charged in this motohome. Even the roof solar charges both batteries in this rig,

-Don- Tonopah, NV

 

[bilmet01]

UPDATE: I checked my voltage at the batteries after 2 days of continual shore power from my house and do see it at 13.38V ( down from initial 13.7V two days ago ). Not the ~13.2V I was expecting but I guess close enough.

I also got a call back from Progressive dynamics technical support yesterday and he confirmed from the PD9260C manual that charging should go into "storage" mode ( ~13.2V ) after 36 hrs with no loads on the batteries but that as long as charging stays at most "normal" mode ( 13.6-13.8 ) then my batteries should not be harmed. I did mention that I used to see initial "boost mode" ( 14.4V - 14.6V ) when I first hooked up to my outside outlet ( in addition to currently when my generator or RV engine is running ). He said it is possible the PD9260C converter is no longer working as designed but recommended I check check the AC voltage coming from my outlet. But I did test the charging with an extension from an outlet in my basement last fall and did not see initial "boost" mode then either?

Anyway, it looks like I should not have to worry about upgrading my converter at this time at least. Note: I believe during my last camping trip last fall I was seeing "boost" mode at first hookup to 30amp so when I am on my 1st RV trip of this year ( next month ) I will be interested to see if I get "boost" mode again at initial 30 amp hookup. Thanks again for all the input.

Bill

 

[DonTom]

I checked my voltage at the batteries after 2 days of continual shore power from my house and do see it at 13.38V ( down from initial 13.7V two days ago ). Not the ~13.2V I was expecting but I guess close enough.

The correct way to test a battery's full charge is to disconnect the battery and wait an hour or so (or longer) and then measure the voltage on the battery. A full charge on a 12V lead acid will be 12.7VDC.

-Don- Tonopah, NV

 

[bilmet01]

Hi Don. I was actually testing the "charging" voltage from the converter at the batteries while hooked up to shore power. When I want to confirm actual full charge of the batteries themselves I do wait for at least a couple of hours after shore power disconnect with no battery loads.

 

[DonTom]

Hi Don. I was actually testing the "charging" voltage from the converter at the batteries while hooked up to shore power. When I want to confirm actual full charge of the batteries themselves I do wait for at least a couple of hours after shore power disconnect with no battery loads.

But if your batteries are fully charged, it indicates the converter is working well, so you're then checking both. Expect the charging voltage to vary with the SOC as well as with the mode the converter is in at the time.

When I tested my PD converter, I was surprised to discover it was just timers for the different charge rates. So if it is unplugged and plugged back in a few minutes later, it goes back to the full charging voltage for quite a while. It really knows nothing about the battery's SOC.

See my message here.


-Don- Tonopah, NV

 

[Mark_K5LXP]

Here's a graphic of the PD charge stages:

The 4 hour absorption phase might be either timed or initiated by the battery reaching some specific current level near full charge. The graph doesn't go into that detail. Switching to storage mode may also be predicated on operating conditions that could push that point out. The only way to conclusively test this is to start with a battery that needs bulk charging and let it cycle through with no loads connected. Measuring current is an important data point because a battery with an issue could influence conditions the converter is monitoring to switch between phases.

Mark B.
Albuquerque, NM

 

[DonTom]

The 4 hour absorption phase might be either timed or initiated by the battery reaching some specific current level near full charge. The graph doesn't go into that detail.

When I did my experiments it was four hours regardless of anything. Just unplug the AC side of the converter for a minute and the four hours starts again every time in the boost mode when plugged back in. Perhaps if that is done every 3 hours and 50 minutes or so, it would probably ruin the battery from overcharging in a day or two.

-Don- Tonopah, NV

 

[John From Detroit]

For a period of time I was on limited 120vac (20 amps) so I plugged in JUST the PD-9180 +wizard.
NOTE the unit was a plug in type (Optional plug in power cord) so I could do that easily (Good design by the way A feature they should do more often)

If I wanted to make coffee I had to go kick it into "Boost" mode by pushing the button on the wizard


Side note: A few Sundays ago I was at an event at Detroit's Huntington place.
Watching news as I type... Video (Security camera type) of a man spreading gasoline about before dropping a match.... In spite of his concealing clothing someone said "I know him" buzzed the Fuzz (For you younger folks that means Called the Police) and "Suspect in custody"

Fire suppression system worked, Minimum damage to facility likely fully repaired as I type .

My the citizen arsonist become an UpStanding citizen and may the Judge he is Up Standing in front of him not only tell him how long he has to think about it but how much it cost the facility to undo thew damage and how much custom they lost during repairs.

 

[bilmet01]

When I tested my PD converter, I was surprised to discover it was just timers for the different charge rates. So if it is unplugged and plugged back in a few minutes later, it goes back to the full charging voltage for quite a while. It really knows nothing about the battery's SOC.

That is why I was am questioning if my converter is still working as designed because it used to always start at "boost" mode after disconnect / reconnect of my power source but only starts up in "normal" mode now. Sorry if I did not emphasis that. However, I do see " boost" mode ( between 14.4V and 14.6V ) every time I start my generator so it may be an issue of my outside power hookup which Progressive support thought could be the issue.

I am actually having an appt to have my RV serviced next week for a few things and will be asking them to verify what they see as the startup charging mode using their power source.

 

[DonTom]

However, I do see " boost" mode ( between 14.4V and 14.6V ) every time I start my generator

The AC to DC converter should see NO difference between the genny and the shore power. Have you checked to see the AC input voltage on the converter when using the genny vs. shore power?

My first guess is the switching to the genny causes a slight interruption to your converter that makes it restart to the boost mode.

Test by comparison to shore power my disconnecting the AC for a few minutes and then plugging it back in and your converter should then (likewise) restart in the boost mode. And you then have four hours to see it in the boost mode, so take your time.

Or perhaps there is something screwy with your shore power. But by your own words, there is nothing at all wrong with your converter.

-Don- Tonopah, NV

 

[John From Detroit]

My first guess is the switching to the genny causes a slight interruption to your converter that makes it restart to the boost mode.

Nailed it. yes the transfer switch is a "Break before make" type relay, for if it was not. Very bad things would happen. Thus there is a slight (fraction of a second) of no power.

Even a "UPS" may do this.. normally not enough to notice even with electronic gear but.. Sometimes notice is taken I had one device that noticed.

 

[Bigfootford]

The PD 9200 series needs to see about 12.2vdc to switch to boost mode.
If you have the Wizard you can switch the mode to boost by using the button.
Solid flash= boost
flash every few seconds = Absorb 13.6
Flash every 30 sec or so = Float
To make it/see it, go through the different modes do the following:

If it is flashing in Absorb, one push of the button and release the PD will go into Boost. You should see 14.4vdc.
Depress and hold the button down you will see the led start flashing like it is in Absorb, continue to depress and the PD will drop into float. You can release the button when you want to get the PD into Absorb or Float.

If you do not have a Wizard then to see if it will go into Boost you have to disconnect the battery and disconnect shore power for about 30 seconds.
Hook the battery back up, you will hear and see a spark, then the shore power.
You should see the Boost voltage at the battery.

AGM batteries inherently have a higher resting voltage.. FWC batteries usually sit at 12.6-12.7. AGM's sit at 12.7-12.8 or 12.9.
This difference in voltage makes the PD act just a bit different. I will not get into the details of it now.

AGM's state of charge voltages are different. You have to discharge an AGM further down in SOC to get to the Boost voltage switch point of 12.3.
Here is a chart to show you.
Jim.

 

[canam175]

Hello. I have a PD9260C converter that I believe was originally installed in my 2015 Forest River Forester MBS. I have noticed since beginning of last fall time frame that it is putting out only "normal mode" charging ( 13.6V-13.8V ) no matter how long I am hooked up to shore power. Also, I have not seen any 14.4 volt charging when first pugged into shore power either like I used to see ( only when running generator or engine ). I had monitored during winter storage with RV plugged into shore power and was never seeing drop down to "storage" mode ( ~13.2V ) so I continually disconnected / connected shore power ( using in house switch ) to avoid any chance of over charging batteries to much.

So my question is is this a sign that my converter is on the way out and that I should think about installing the latest PD9360V model from Progressive Dynamics? Also, since I will be start camping soon including a 3 week trip with campground hookups ( in between 14.4 charging while engine is running ) do I need to be concerned that continual 13.8V charging at campground will hurt my ~4 yr old AGM batteries?

My motor home converter blew the coach fuse to the 12V system drove me crazy for a while till I found the fuse located in the engine compartment? Since Lithium batteries have become so reasonable I decided to install four up two from the original, lithium batteries require a higher charge voltage so I changed the coach converter to a higher capacity and an optional charge switch for either standard or the lithium batteries require. I found a replacement on Amazon which was not only reasonable but also had a cooling fan to improve the durability, so far have been very happy with the replacement.