Please measure your RV for us - PLEASE ??

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UK-RV

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Hi Guys

Can any of your help us (RVers in the UK) with a little enquiry :-

If you have one of the following RVs (ideally the latest version) we need to know how WIDE the vehicle is :

The Width needs to measure everything including the awnings, grab rail etc but NOT the mirrors.

Can you let us know if your RV is over 100.39 inches or 2.55 metres wide please.

And then, could you let us know the width of just the body but NOT the awnings, mirrors etc.

It would be really good to help us when we come to register our vehicles in the UK.

Thanks
Paul

Here's the list :-

Coachmen Aurora 3580 TS
Coachmen Concord 235 SO 1-slide
Coachmen Concord 275 DS 2-slide
Coachmen Concord 300 ts
Coachmen Mirada 29 KS 1-slide
Coachmen Mirada 310 DS
Coachmen Mirada 330 DS
Coachmen Mirada 358 TS 3-slides
Coachmen Ramp + Camp 295 TH
Damon Challenger 315
Damon Challenger 328
Damon Challenger 329
Damon Challenger 335
Damon Challenger 348
Damon Daybreak 2750 LE
Damon Daybreak 2960
Damon Daybreak 3062
Damon Daybreak 3270
Damon Daybreak 3275
Damon Daybreak 3285
Damon Escaper 3977
Damon Escaper 3979
Damon Intruder 369
Damon Intruder 373
Damon Intruder 374
Damon Intruder 378
Damon Intruder 390
Damon Intruder 391
Damon Astoria 3465?
Damon Astoria 3579 ?
Damon Astoria 3595 ?
Damon Astoria 3679
Damon Astoria 3773
Damon Daybreak 3060
Damon Daybreak 3272
Damon Daybreak 3274
Forest River Charleston 400 TS
Forest River Forester 2651S
Forest River Forester 3101S
Forest River Georgetown 370GT/375GT
Forest River Georgetown 400TS/400QS
Forest River Lexington 210GTS
Forest River Lexington 235S
Forest River Lexington 255DS
Forest River Lexington 270S
Forest River Lexington 283TS
Forest River Sunseeker 2160S
Forest River Sunseeker 2200
Forest River Sunseeker 2450S
Forest River Sunseeker 2600S
Forest River Sunseeker 2860DS
Forest River Sunseeker 2900
Forest River Sunseeker 2940DS
Forest River Sunseeker 3100SS
Four Winds Citation 21BC
Four Winds Citation 23BA
Four Winds Citation 24BB
Four Winds Citation 26BE
Four Winds Citation 28BD
Four Winds Citation 29G
Four Winds Funmover 27C
Four Winds Funmover 31C
Four Winds Funmover 33C
Four Winds Funmover 34C
Four Winds Funmover 35C
Four Winds Hurricane 30F
Four Winds Hurricane 30Q
Four Winds Hurricane 31D
Four Winds Hurricane 31H
Four Winds Hurricane 32R
Four Winds Hurricane 33H
Four Winds Hurricane 34N
Four Winds Windsport 32R
Four Winds Windsport 34A
Four Winds Windsport 34N
Four Winds Windsport 34W
Four Winds Windsport 35D
Four Winds Windsport 35W
Four Winds Windsport 36A
Four Winds Windsport 36E
Four Winds Windsport 36K
Four Winds Windsport 36Z
Georgie Boy Manufacturing Cruisemaster 2905
Georgie Boy Manufacturing Cruisemaster 3205 GL 1-slide
Georgie Boy Manufacturing Cruisemaster 3512 GL 2-slides
Georgie Boy Manufacturing Landau 2135 2-slides
Georgie Boy Manufacturing Landau 2450 2-slides
Georgie Boy Manufacturing Landau 3525 3-slides
Georgie Boy Manufacturing Maverick 260 SO
Georgie Boy Manufacturing Pursuit 2970 2-slides
Georgie Boy Manufacturing Pursuit 3180 2-slides
Georgie Boy Manufacturing Pursuit 3500 2-slides
Gulf Stream BT Cruiser 5250 2-slides
Gulf Stream BT Cruiser 5290 2-slides
Gulf Stream Crescendo 8356 2-slides
Gulf Stream Crescendo 8386 2-slides
Gulf Stream Enduramax
Gulf Stream Independence 1-slide
Gulf Stream Sunvoyager 8295 3-slides
Gulf Stream Sunvoyager 8357 3-slides
Gulf Stream Sunvoyager 8379 3-slides
Gulf Stream Vista Mini 1-slide
Gulf stream BT Cruiser 5270 1-slide
Holiday Rambler Admiral SE 33ft PBD 2-slides
Holiday Rambler Admiral SE 37ft PCT 3-slides
Holiday Rambler Vacationer 34ft SBD 2-slides
Holiday Rambler Vacationer 37ft PST 3-slides
Mandalay Presidio 39A
Mandalay Presidio 39B
Mandalay Presidio 39C
Mandalay Valencia 36A
Mandalay Valencia 38C
Monaco Camelot 38ft PDQ 4-slides
Monaco Cayman 34ft SBD 2-slides
Monaco Cayman 36ft PDQ 4-slides
Monaco Diplomat 38ft PDQ 3-slides
Monaco Knight 38ft PDQ 4-slides
Monaco Le Palma Diesel 36 WBS
Monaco Windsor 38ft PST 3-slides
R-Vision Trail-Aire Silhouette 281
R-Vision Trail-Aire Silhouette 321
R-Vision Trail-Aire Silhouette 351/352
R-Vision Trail-lite 213
R-Vision Trail-lite 214
R-Vision Trail-lite 225
R-Vision Trail-lite 235-S
R-Vision Trail-lite 236-S
R-Vision Trail-lite 241
R-Vision Trail-lite 25 RKG slide out
R-Vision Trail-lite 25 SB
R-Vision Trail-lite 25 SR slide out
R-Vision Trail-lite 251
R-Vision Trail-lite 252 DS
R-Vision Trail-lite 26 SG slide out
R-Vision Trail-lite 27 1-slide out
R-Vision Trail-lite 28 QS 2-slides
R-Vision Trail-lite 281 2-slides
R-Vision Trail-lite 285
R-Vision Trail-lite 29 RQ
R-Vision Trail-lite 290
R-Vision Trail-lite 31 SL slide out
R-Vision Trail-lite 321 2-slides
Safari Cheetah 36ft PDD 2-slides
Safari Cheetah 38ft PDQ 4-slides
Safari Trek 27 RB
Safari Trek 29 RBD 2-slides
Winnebago Adventurer 33V 2-slides
Winnebago Adventurer 35A 3-slides
Winnebago Adventurer 35U 2-slides
Winnebago Adventurer 38J 3-slides
Winnebago Adventurer 38T 2-slides
Winnebago Aspect 23D 1-slide
Winnebago Aspect 26A 1-slide
Winnebago Aspect 29H 2-slides
Winnebago Brave
Winnebago Journey 32T 2-slides
Winnebago Journey 34H 2-slides
Winnebago Journey 36G 2-slides
Winnebago Journey 39K 3-slides
Winnebago Minnie Winnie 30 2-slides
Winnebago Outlook 27 2-slides
Winnebago View 23H 1-slide
Winnebago View 23J 1-slide
Winnebago Itasca Cambria 23D
Winnebago Itasca Cambria 26A
Winnebago Itasca Cambria 29H
Winnebago Itasca Navion 23H
Winnebago Itasca Navion 23J
 

Tom

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That's a tall order Paul, but hopefully some folks can provide the info. Do you have a large caliper we can use? Last time I saw a caliper that approached anything that size was when I worked at British Steel in the 60's.

FWIW there's something not right with one of the Monaco numbers. FYI the 'Q' in PDQ means quad slide and 'T' in PST means triple slide. So the Monaco  Diplomat 38ft PDQ can't be 3-slides, although I think it's irrelevant to the overall width since both the 'Q' and 'T' versions will have at least one slide on each side. The other data point you might need in all this would be model year - I don't know if dimensions change from year to year. In the case of Beaver, their trademark flush slideouts have changed for 2006 and are now outside the main body like the rest of the Monaco line. That probably adds an inch to the total body width.

If you don't get any/many responses, you could also contact the manufacturers and they'd probably supply actual dimensional drawings. When you call, ask for tech support. However, I'm not sure they'd send the same person lots of drawings of all their models, but the tech very well might give you the info you need right over the phone. I've found Monaco to be particularly helpful in this respect. Their web site with contact info is Monaco Coach Corporation.

FYI Monaco also makes Holiday Rambler, Safari and Beaver since they bought out the three companies and consolidated all the manufacturing into existing Monaco factories.
 

UK-RV

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;D - I dont think the calipers are needed, just a tape measure would do.

Oh, Im not asking you all to run around campgrounds with tape and list to hand - just to measure your own coach if it's on the list and you have the spare 5 mins.

Regarding the list, I didn't actually read thru the list checking for errors, as it's the official list used by UK Government agencies? :eek: :eek:

Thanks go to Mick for obtaining the list from them - a list they originally denied existed.

Just to explain - this list is for US RVs which have PASSED clearance for registration in the UK, even though it seems only around 5% have actually been examined.

Im simply trying to find out how much over the legal width these coaches are - as I expect at least 95% to be way over.

BTW, the idea of contacting the manufacturers would be fine except that Fleetwood, for instance, list the Expedition at 'maximum 102"' when I measured ours at 99" - their version would be illegal in the UK and my measurement legal.? ::)

Thanks
Paul
 

Tom

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Paul,

Don't know when we'll be at our Monaco to be able to measure it. This is our summer boating season and we're not doing too much RVing right now.
 

Mick & Pat

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Here is a posting off the American RV Magazine forum by one of its members who thought he'd done everything 'by the book' :(

JIMBO say's

In Feb this year I bought a 29R Itasca Sunova from Lazy Days in the USA. Checked on width and as Dudley's were selling the same model thought it must be OK and arranged shipping. It arrived mid April and was refused registration by DVLA as it was 20mm too wide, not including the awnings They are measuring the width on the lateral points (not including wing mirrors) Winnebago give the exact flat side flat side width, not including awnings and slide awning as 2.492m i.e. 8mm under width. I have written to DVLA with a list of grievances, mainly that the dealers are still selling big vehicles and are still in business and still getting vehicles registered. The Policy Group at DVLA replied but only quoted the Construction of road use act and ignored all the references to dealers and that some DVLA offices are still registering vehicles, i.e.,  "not all singing from the same hymn sheet" When my RV went on the boat the DVLA were registering them, now they decide to add, the including handle, awnings etc but not make this information public. I believe the list that the DVLA used was taken from MMM magazine, which does not give accurate figures. As another member pointed out if you RV was on the list then you were OK, now not the case
A Winnebago Sightseer 34 foot is on the list but the DVLA say that even if your vehicle is on the list they will still measure it and take photos in case you have taken off the awnings etc and then put them back on. If you are then stopped by VOSA, the new transport agency they can refer to the original photo and prosecute you. My RV is going back to the USA next week and I proposed to travel with it over there. I am still pursuing the DVLA for answers to my original complaint and depending on their reply I may seek legal advice with a view to take the DVLA to court for failing to implement the law across the whole of the country. I am new to RV?s and have had an expensive lesson on things that can go wrong.

In addition to Paul's request I to would be very interested in just a few measurings just to see how they compair with those put out by the manufacturer.
May I thank all those in advance in providing such information. :) :) :)
 

JohnSandyWhite

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Don't think I'm going to bother with our Newmar. Thinking of shipping it to Spain and parking on a piece of land. Just bought a small camper to journey around in.  ::)
 

Mick & Pat

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I am about to ask what initially you may think is a stupid question ::), How do you accurately measure an RV ???  if you stop and think it isn't that stupid. :)

At the moment here in the UK the DVLA appear to be operating a zero tolerance measuring operation of imported American motorhomes so being 1cm out could cost the owner thousands of ???'s or $$$$'s  :(

In one thread on another forum I have read that the DVLA inspectors may be using plumb lines.

If that is the case I believe you would need at least 6 persons :eek: to get an accurate measurement, one at each end of the plumb line on BOTH sides and two to measure the distance between the two lines at each end of the RV.

Don't forget BOTH plumb lines would have to be parallel to each other and touching the RVs widest points to get an accurate measurement.
 

Tom

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Mick said:
Don't forget BOTH plumb lines would have to be parallel to each other....

Mick, if they weren't parallel to each other, they wouldn't both be plumb. I still think a giant caliper is the best bet.

How do the DVLA folks make the measurement?
 

JohnSandyWhite

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Mick said:
In one thread on another forum I have read that the DVLA inspectors may be using plumb lines.

??? I think that could just be a rumour/myth/legend? As you say. Too complicated and takes too many people. I have had 2 contact me and had their's measured. Once with and one without awnings attached. I just don't fancy taking ALL my awnings off.  :'(
 

olley

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Hi my brave has a ledge on top of the rear lights, so I laid a piece if wood across the back on top of these and sighted down each side of the RV, marked it and measured, allowing for slides but not wheel flairs or the drip rail over the basement lockers, its 100.37" 2mm under on width.

Not exactly scientific but I think its fairly accurate, begs the question how do Dudley's import them without taking the wheel flairs and drip rails of?

Olley
 

Mick & Pat

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olley said:
Not exactly scientific but I think its fairly accurate, begs the question how do Dudley's import them without taking the wheel flairs and drip rails of?
Olley

Olley,

Dudley's latest full page full colour advertisement in the UK American RV Magazine feature both the 2006 Winnebago Vectra and Tour models......... Now the DVLA 'list' clearly places ALL Winnebago Tour & Vectra models in the OVERSIZED list none in the approved list.  Must have friends in high places???????
 

UK-RV

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Hi Mick, JSW & Olley

I believe the reason that the dealers are able to register their imports is because they have registered as "responsible" import dealers and have been issued with all the relevant forms to do the registration themsleves "as long as they have a safe place to store the forms".

That information is readily available online - I cant remember exactly where at the moment but I will dig it out.

So, they can register the vehicles no problem - it only becomes an offense when you actually drive the vehicle.

Paul

PS - this will make you laugh - as we will have our UK car and the RV when we get back (and nothing set-up for towing) I am even looking at the legislation surrounding the movement of "wide loads". For the limited UK miles we would be driving, we could place a "wide load" sign on the back of the RV and Ann-Marie could drive the Fiesta as the escort vehicle. Simple really isnt it !! At least then I could leave the awnings in place.
 

Mick & Pat

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Paul,

I've seen the web site you are on about the below link isn't it is it?

http://tinyurl.com/nj9a9  Sorry Paul just read the web site again and it's for imports from EU countries.......  Doh ::)
 

Mick & Pat

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Just to get the ball rolling,

A British Monaco Cayman 36 PDQ owner Dick Kingswell has just measured his RV and found it's width to be the same as on the DVLA list.

Width 2.55m wall to wall not including awnings and slide-out toppers so have ALL the American RVs on the DVLA list been presented for inspection with their awnings,handles & slide-out toppers removed?


Length was 37'-02"  same as DVLA list.
 

UK-RV

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Hi Mick

No, thats not the one.

The one Im refering to is the "Automated First Registration and Licensing (AFRL) system."

Take a look at section 10 on form V100 (the form is too large to attch here).

I will find the url and add it later - here it is http://www.dvlni.gov.uk/vehicles/vehicle_forms/v100.pdf

This system appears to apply for new registrations only, so Im not sure how they manage with oversized used vehicles they're selling.

Regards
Paul

Just thought of something else - you could always do your Freedom Of Information trick again and see if the dealers are registered for that scheme - you could even ask for a list of vehicles (not keepers) registered in past 6 months by the dealer using AFRL - it would certainly explain things wouldn't it.

BUT, I still stand by my statement made to you before - what will any of this achieve. It would perhaps cause the dealers a lot of grief but would it change the law to allow us all to import wider RVs - I doubt it.

 

UK-RV

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OK - here goes - how about this solution ;D :-

Firstly, your RV does need to be under 100.39" body width - not including removable awnings etc as they are to be classed as a "load".

In my case, if I wish to register (and have measured) the RV in Bristol, all I need do is email the Abnormal Load Officer 2 days prior to driving in Avon & Somerset Police area.

I simply advise him that I intend to drive my vehicle with attached load (removable awnings etc) of (say) 5" extra width, between A and B.

If he doesnt reply, you can drive the vehicle OK.

If the vehicle is less than 4.6m wide, in line with National Standards, you dont need an escort vehicle - just a couple of signs on the "load".

I cant see how the Testing Station can then fail your RV, nor can you be stopped and proscecuted along the way.

See - it is simple really.? ;D

Paul

Of course, it would be fun contacting every Police force for a UK tour.

 

Tom

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Sounds like a creative solution Paul. Let's hope it works OK for you.
 

Mick & Pat

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Paul,

You ask what I hope to achieve?

Well at the moment Monaco say their Diplomat (for example) is 100.5" wide,the US dealer could also measure it at 100.5" and provide a statement to that effect, if I measure it and get 100.5" and the DVLA list gives 2.55m.

But if when you arrive in the UK and the DVLA decide to do a random inspection and its OVER 2.55m does all the above evidence over rule the measurement??


So the answer is some way of getting a guarantee that if an RV is on the list the DVLA will honour it.
 

UK-RV

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Mick

I understand what you are trying to achieve, but until they change the maximum width Law, you will ALWAYS face a problem.

The list you obtained is full of errors and will, at some point, be overuled and replaced - what with, who knows !

The other problem with the List is that you may be able to import your vehicle (which is currently OK on the list) but when you later come to sell it, the list may have been updated and your vehicle is suddenly banned.

When it comes time to update the paperwork with new owner details, what's to say the vehicle isnt called for re-inspection.

I just hope you sell the coach to a little bloke with no nasty friends, as I wouldnt fancy someone coming after me for a hundred grand, thinking Ive ripped him off.

Paul


 
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