Possible Converter Damage After 50 Amp Power Issue

[garyb1st]

Kirk, it's has 50 amps.

Picked up a 5 amp Schumacher battery charger with a lithium profile. Plugged it in and nothing. Rewired the batteries so they were separate and connected to both separately. Still not able to charge them. So, either the battery charger is defective or we have a problem with the batteries. It's possible the power surge damage the batteries BMS. I'm going to reset them and see if that helps. We're still able to charge the batteries via the engine alternator. So until I can get a replacement Converter, we're going to be very aware of battery usage.

 

[DonTom]

It's possible the power surge damage the batteries BMS. I'm going to reset them and see if that helps. We're still able to charge the batteries via the engine alternator

If you can charge by your alternator, it proves the BMS is fine, The BMS is inside each battery pack and has no way to tell what you're using to charge it with.

-Don- Auburn, CA

 

[garyb1st]

Want to replace the converter with a Progressive Dynamics unit. Anyone able to provide a model number. Our WFCO is a 65 amp converter with what they call AD. Supposedly it's able to detect whether or not the battery is Lithium. It's never charged on the lithium basis since we've had it. IIRC, Progressive Dynamics makes one with a switch so it can change from Lead Acid to Lithium. Anyone have experience with that model?

 

[DonTom]

Want to replace the converter with a Progressive Dynamics unit. Anyone able to provide a model number. Our WFCO is a 65 amp converter with what they call AD. Supposedly it's able to detect whether or not the battery is Lithium. It's never charged on the lithium basis since we've had it. IIRC, Progressive Dynamics makes one with a switch so it can change from Lead Acid to Lithium. Anyone have experience with that model?

The PD 4590 (90-amp) has a LA/ LI battery switch. It is what I have in my 2022 Class A. And I went from LA to LI and changed the very small switch that is right in front.

For just the converter section, see here.

I am not sure what style yours is and that can make a big difference.

I have a new Li-time 60-amp converter that is designed for Lifepo4 batteries only, and it seems to be a decent one. Not knowing what you have, that could be the easiest to install. Mine is NOT installed. I just use it for when I want to charge up a loose uninstalled Lifepo4 battery.

You can also get them in other currant outputs. Here is an 80-amp.

-Don- Auburn, CA

 

[TheBar]

Picked up a 5 amp Schumacher battery charger with a lithium profile. Plugged it in and nothing.

The Harbor Freight charger is the only remaining analog charger I've seen. The newer ones have a microprocessor that won't charge until it thinks the battery needs to be charged. I'd rather have the option to make that decision myself.

 

[bigbAZ]

Microwave dead. Pulled it out, tested the ceramic fuse and it was still good. But it will not start.

I have not seen this addressed thus far. If the microwave and the converter do not work but all other 120 volt stuff works there is a chance, albeit small, that there is a breaker tripped. Often the converter will share with another circuit. Sometimes a tripped breaker, especially an old one, does not look tripped and can be tricky to reset.

However the burning smell leads me to agree with @Lou Schneider, that the most likely scenario is that there was an open neutral, however brief, which took out the microwave and the converter which are the 2 most sensitive items to over voltage that you have.

 

[DonTom]

I have not seen this addressed thus far.

I kinda did, when I asked him to check for the 120 VAC on the input of the converter. I had the same thought then, that it could be something simple such as a tripped breaker.

Never heard a reply to that. Perhaps he doesn't have a VOM there.

A VOM is an item I would never travel without in any vehicle, but especially not in an RV.

-Don- Auburn, CA

 

[DonTom]

However the burning smell leads me to agree with @Lou Schneider, that the most likely scenario is that there was an open neutral, however brief, which took out the microwave and the converter which are the 2 most sensitive items to over voltage that you have.

That is one reason why to be extra sure the pedestal tripper is off when plugging in or unplugging, especially on 50-amp RVs.

-Don- Auburn, CA

 

[Kevin Means]

Sorry about the problem Gary. I'm with Lou though - it sounds like a bad neutral ground connection. It happened to us and the symptoms were very similar to what you've described. Nothing happened until I turned on two roof-air units, at which time the power imbalance caused by the broken wire sent 240 volts to several AC appliances - including our Inverter/converter unit, the residential fridge, one of the roof-air units and the washing machine. Fortunatly, the inverter shut down and protected itself, but not so with the other appliances. Even our expensive surge protector/power management device didn't help, because it was a portable unit - not hardwired. Portable unit's can't detect a bad neutral ground in the power cord's plug, because it's downstream of the device. Needless to say, it's now hardwired.

 

[John From Detroit]

Nothing happened until I turned on two roof-air units, at which time the power imbalance caused by the broken wire sent 240 volts to several AC appliances - including our Inverter/converter unit, the residential fridge

I had that happen (sort of) in a campground my "Surge Guard" said "Open neutral" as I recall (or open ground I forget which) the problem was park-side of the plug. I reported. they fixed.

One of the reasons I strongly recommend one of the better systems. Surge Guard or Progressive Industries. Not only did it "Save my bacon" as it were.. But I've had a few other times it diagnosed the problem (Well it fed me an error code that to me meant something significant)

I will admit to using some knowledge of electricity and electronics to figure out the code

 

[DonTom]

I had that happen (sort of) in a campground my "Surge Guard" said "Open neutral" as I recall (or open ground I forget which) the problem was park-side of the plug.

The way I do it, is start with the pedestal CB off. Next I plug in my Surge Guard into the 14-50R without the RV plugged into anything. Then turn on CB, check the LEDS for correct operation and then turn the CB off again.

Then I plug the RV into the protector and then turn on the pedistal.

FWIW, I have yet to find an issue at any RV park. But I realize there can always be a first time.

-Don- Auburn, CA

 

[garyb1st]

From what I've read on Google AI, an analogue charger can possibly damage lithium batteries. If true, I'd rather have a Lithium specific charger. Walmart sells several including a cheap 10 amp charger for $20.00. 14.6V 10A LiFePO4 Battery Charger for 12V Lithium Iron Phosphate Batteries – Fast Charging, High Efficiency, LED Indicator, Durable Design with Overheat Protection - Walmart.com

They also sell a LiTime charger for $112.98. LiTime 12V 20A Lithium Battery Charger, 14.6V LiFePO4 Smart AC-DC Charger for Lithium LiFePO4 Deep Cycle Battery - Walmart.com

Since this is a temporary fix, I'm inclined to go with the cheaper Walmart model. However, it occurred to me that rather than replace my converter, I could just buy the more expensive LiTime charger and use that as a work-a-round. Not sure what I'm losing by not having a working Converter.

Thoughts???

 

[DonTom]

From what I've read on Google AI, an analogue charger can possibly damage lithium batteries. If true, I'd rather have a Lithium specific charger. Walmart sells several including a cheap 10 amp charger for $20.00. 14.6V 10A LiFePO4 Battery Charger for 12V Lithium Iron Phosphate Batteries – Fast Charging, High Efficiency, LED Indicator, Durable Design with Overheat Protection - Walmart.com

They also sell a LiTime charger for $112.98. LiTime 12V 20A Lithium Battery Charger, 14.6V LiFePO4 Smart AC-DC Charger for Lithium LiFePO4 Deep Cycle Battery - Walmart.com

Since this is a temporary fix, I'm inclined to go with the cheaper Walmart model. However, it occurred to me that rather than replace my converter, I could just buy the more expensive LiTime charger and use that as a work-a-round. Not sure what I'm losing by not having a working Converter.

Thoughts???

If you normally have shore power, such as at an RV park, the cheap $20.00 one should work well. If you want to charge by using the genny, then you will want the more expensive ones that can do even more than 20 amps. Then it is the more the better if you do not want to run the genny all day long. But when plugged in 24 hrs a day, or doing a lot of driving where the converters are not used, then the cheap ten amp one should be fine.

-Don- Auburn, CA

 

[bigbAZ]

From what I've read on Google AI, an analogue charger can possibly damage lithium batteries. If true, I'd rather have a Lithium specific charger. Walmart sells several including a cheap 10 amp charger for $20.00. 14.6V 10A LiFePO4 Battery Charger for 12V Lithium Iron Phosphate Batteries – Fast Charging, High Efficiency, LED Indicator, Durable Design with Overheat Protection - Walmart.com

They also sell a LiTime charger for $112.98. LiTime 12V 20A Lithium Battery Charger, 14.6V LiFePO4 Smart AC-DC Charger for Lithium LiFePO4 Deep Cycle Battery - Walmart.com

Since this is a temporary fix, I'm inclined to go with the cheaper Walmart model. However, it occurred to me that rather than replace my converter, I could just buy the more expensive LiTime charger and use that as a work-a-round. Not sure what I'm losing by not having a working Converter.

Thoughts???

I don't think a standard charger will damage your lithiums, it just won't charge them all the way. The Li needs to be fully topped off periodically to for cell balancing so as long as you have a way to do that periodically by using a Li charger, solar etc you should be OK. If you never top them off then yes, they might suffer some degree of degradation.

My WFCO doesn't go to Li either unless I increase the wire size and I'm not going to do that, instead I balance it regularly with a Victron Li charger. When at camp I often use the Victron to charge my Li, and while driving I use a Victron DC-DC charger. When camped, If my battery is mostly full I either leave all charging off, or I might switch on my converter just so it can keep up with my usage. The converter gets it pretty close to 100% and may even be easier on the battery since it is not keeping it at 100% all the time which most experts say will slightly reduce it's life. Just remember to top balance occasionally.

My field is AC power and not an expert on Li, kind of new to it actually but been studying. If any of my info is erroneous I look forward to hearing from some of our resident experts.

 

[garyb1st]

Yesterday while driving 4 hours, the engine alternator charged the house batteries to 100%. Today they will not charge the house batteries. My research suggests the battery isolator solenoid is bad. Not sure how to determine that and if bad how to replace.

Thoughts and suggestions.

 

[bigbAZ]

Yesterday while driving 4 hours, the engine alternator charged the house batteries to 100%. Today they will not charge the house batteries. My research suggests the battery isolator solenoid is bad. Not sure how to determine that and if bad how to replace.

Thoughts and suggestions.

Check both large posts on the solenoid with the engine running. You should have over 13 volts to ground on each side. If not, the solenoid is not working.

(If you don't have over 13 volts on at least one side that means alternator power is not getting there which points to a problem upstream)

 

[DonTom]

Yesterday while driving 4 hours, the engine alternator charged the house batteries to 100%. Today they will not charge the house batteries. My research suggests the battery isolator solenoid is bad. Not sure how to determine that and if bad how to replace.

Thoughts and suggestions.

How did you determine the house batteries are not charging? What voltage/ SOC% are they at?

-Don- Auburn, CA

 

[Kirk]

Sometimes a tripped breaker, especially an old one, does not look tripped and can be tricky to reset.

To reset any alternating current circuit breaker, move the handle to the fully open position, the close it again. That is the only way to know for sure.

Yesterday while driving 4 hours, the engine alternator charged the house batteries to 100%. Today they will not charge the house batteries.

If the alternator charged the batteries that supply the coach, the battery isolator had to have been closed and passing current. But to test it for sure, you need to get out your multimeter and check. If the isolator is not closed and the engine is running, you should see the voltage from your alternator on one side, probably more than 13V and on the other side you would see the voltage of the coach batteries, whatever that may be, but something less than from the alternator.

 

[John From Detroit]

The breakers ONAN and Tripplite use on their Generators and Invrters the handles are either in the ON or OFF position there is no "Tripped" position (They snap to off)

So when someone ask for help cause half his RV had no 120 volt I had him open the inverter compartment and there they were One \ one / Made them both the same (ON) and everything worked.

The fun part was when his wife ask "Does he think he can fix it " and her husband answered "he already did".

You need a flashlight to see the ON/OFF label on the handle's base unless the light is just right .

 

[garyb1st]

When we got back on the road, the alternator began charging the house batteries again. Fully charged after a short 110 mile trip. Finally at our destination. Mooch-docking at my daughters home since our campground reservation isn't for another 2 days. Most importantly the most stressful part of our 4,000 mile round triper is done.