Propane Tanks & Dogs ?

[24theroad]

I mentioned in my intro that we had questions. Our first is about the propane tanks. We have 2 30lbs, located in the front of the 5th wheel. Are there trucks that come around to re-fill the tanks, or, as we are assuming, do we hoist them in and out ourselves. If hoisting is the answer, is there a trick to doing this? Please advise.

Another query is about dogs. I've been doing research and have found many "pet-friendly" sites, but I would like your opinions. Our guys are older, and very calm/quiet. We realize they'll have to be tied (new to them, as we live on a 3 acre farm and they wander about), but we'd like to know more about the what-not-to-do thing.

Thanks in advance, and it's great to be here.

Cheers,
B&G

 

[Ned]

Some parks allow outside propane trucks to come in and fill tanks, others don't.  It will be cheaper to take your tanks to a propane station for filling.  Companies get a premium for onsite delivery.  No trick, they aren't that heavy for most people to carry.

Some parks have restrictions on pets, either not allowed (uncommon) or a separate area for pet owners.  However, some rules are always in effect:  use a leash; pick up after them; don't leave them outside unattended, ever.

And welcome to our friendly forum.

 

[Steve CDN]

B&G,

To help draw attention to both issues in your posting, I modified the Topic.? You may find it more effective to limit each posting to one subject, so that your Topic Title can reflect the subject.? You can post as many queries as you wish on the Forum...no need to combine topics {smile}

Though there are propane delivery trucks bringing propane to homes and businesses, they will charge you a premium or minimum delivery charge if you have them come to your home.? Depending on where you are, there may be a drive up propane dealer in your area.? The least expensive propane on the road is at the Flying J truck and RV stops.

In Canada there are Flying J's in Napannee, London and in Dorion Quebec along the 401.? Get a Flying J RVers card for the RV discount on fuel and propane.?

Flying J Locations and Prices

What is the difficulty you have in removing the tanks from your rig?? Remember the locking nut on the tank is a reverse thread.

There are numerous pet restrictions in effect and they vary depending on where you go.? Sometimes the restriction has to do with the number of pets, other times it is the size and or weight.? ?Pets should be leashed on a short leash and poop and scoop should be done to maintain good relations with your neighbors, even if the local regulations don't demand it.

Barking dogs are a nuisance in campgrounds, because sound generally travels easily in these areas.? Dogs left inside an RV which bark, and the owner gone are especially annoying.

What other issues regarding your pets are you concerned about?

 

[24theroad]

Hi Again Steve,

Thanks for the hints! No more issues with the dogs. They're older and very quiet, can't forsee any problems.

As to the propane tanks, I'd mentioned the trailer is an '86. The tanks are in the front, under the...uh oh...part that goes over the truck? Wait, Bruno says it's the "overhang". It's a tight space, and we can't lift with our knees, and we'll be kneeling on them. Make sense? That's why we're asking for hints.

Sheesh, Bruno is now dictating to me...Here goes.." Is there such a thing as an adapter that can be installed between the tanks and the regulator for us to be able to fill them in place"?

 

[BernerGran]

Hi - BernerGran here again sticking in my 2 cents!

We, too have traveled with between 1 and 3 dogs over the years.

We now travel with 2 Bernese Mountain Dogs - one nearly 7 (old for a bernese) and we are about to intorduce our not quite 3 mo old puppy to our grand lifestyle.

All the remarks on dogs should be helpful to you. As we show our dogs, they have learned to be crate trained. If we need to leave them inside for a bit, they are always crated. Now, I don't think that will work with your guys. So, I would recommend being careful where the trash is - we sometimes stick ours in the shower or potty. Because they will undoubtedly be somewhat stressed, it is always best to keep the surprises to a minimum when you return. We are careful with everything now anyway because of the puppy.

We also take with us what is called an X pen. I'm sure you've seen them. They're just large sections of wire which hook together and form a pen. If your kids don't want to be attached to a leash while you're hanging out at your site, perhaps they would tolerate the pen? One can always hope, right?

When we're sitting around our site, we have made it a practice to either leash them and attach them to one of us, or use the pen.

But you know, just use common courtesy. Y'all behave as you would like others to. There are so many dogs in the campgrounds, and they make great ice breakers with others.

Just enjpy!
BernerGran

 

[Jim Dick]

Hi Again Steve,

Thanks for the hints! No more issues with the dogs. They're older and very quiet, can't forsee any problems.

As to the propane tanks, I'd mentioned the trailer is an '86. The tanks are in the front, under the...uh oh...part that goes over the truck? Wait, Bruno says it's the "overhang". It's a tight space, and we can't lift with our knees, and we'll be kneeling on them. Make sense? That's why we're asking for hints.

Sheesh, Bruno is now dictating to me...Here goes.." Is there such a thing as an adapter that can be installed between the tanks and the regulator for us to be able to fill them in place"?

30lb tanks can be a bear to install and remove especially in the front of a 5th wheel. Unfortunately I know of no device that allows filling in place. The hardest part will be getting them back in. Be careful of both the knees and the back!!! It might take both of you together to lift them in place.

 

[Illine]

Hello and Welcome!

I just have to have a little input on the dogs. We have two, an 80 lb. black lab and a 3.5 lb. poodle. We've been full-time for 7 years now. When we first started RVing with the lab, she was NOT happy being kept inside when she was used to having the whole yard when we were not home. The first night out that we left her, she got on the bed and wet it!!! We were not happy campers then! She never used to get on the bed OR furniture when we had a house and she was an inside dog when we were home. In time, she did adjust to it. We just have to remember to raise the bed up when we leave and block off our leather sofa. If we don't she makes that her space while we're gone. She has never had any other "accidents" in the RV. Just give them a little time and they will be fine!

 

[blueblood]

I mentioned in my intro that we had questions. Our first is about the propane tanks. We have 2 30lbs, located in the front of the 5th wheel. Are there trucks that come around to re-fill the tanks, or, as we are assuming, do we hoist them in and out ourselves. If hoisting is the answer, is there a trick to doing this? Please advise.

Another query is about dogs. I've been doing research and have found many "pet-friendly" sites, but I would like your opinions. Our guys are older, and very calm/quiet. We realize they'll have to be tied (new to them, as we live on a 3 acre farm and they wander about), but we'd like to know more about the what-not-to-do thing.

Thanks in advance, and it's great to be here.

Cheers,
B&G

I have found that in several cities it is illegal to leave your pets in the motorhome period. I don't understand this law since I'm sure its not illegal for stick build home owners or apartment dwellers to leave their pets and I see no difference. However, not wishing to spend money fighting it I comply and leave ASAP i.e. do not do mulitiple days in these CG's.

 

[24theroad]

Thank you, One and All! It IS a friendly site! Just came in the house after spending time learning how to move around in the RV. Bruno's having a problem picking up his size 10 feet, the Golden just wants to sit on my size 8S , the Husky has found her spot in the bedroom and the Lhasa follows the Husky. So far...so good. Mind you, it's still in the driveway

I guess I forgot to mention that we're in Canada...Ontario, to be precise. We're looking forward to the whole new world of RV'ing, and maybe meeting some of you helpful people.

Off now to clean the oven, fridge and stove...oops..bathroom too. Ladies, can you recommend a all purpose vacuum? As I'd mentioned, I've been cleaning the unit for a few days now, as the previous owners were elderly and I guess couldn't reach into all the crannies. I (while not super large) have healthy shoulders, and got stuck under the sink yesterday. As Allan Jackson was blasting thru the stereo, Bruno couldn't hear me screaming for help. Taste of things to come? No Sir...his job now, as he has longer arms

Away I go to finish cleaning. Hope to be on the road by Sunday!!! YAHOO

Happy Trails

 

[Steve CDN]

Hope to be on the road by Sunday

What's your destination for the shakedown cruise?

So you're close enough to drive to Dorion/Vaudreuil for your propane if you're going that way.  If you're coming east on 417, at Vaudreuil where the road goes left to Montreal, stay on the bypass toward 401.  The Flying J is at the first exit..you can't miss it.

If you're going west there's one off the 401 at the exit for Napannee.

Must be a place near Alexandria that sells propane...let me know where you finally get it.

 

[John From Detroit]

I have found that in several cities it is illegal to leave your pets in the motorhome period. I don't understand this law since I'm sure its not illegal for stick build home owners or apartment dwellers to leave their pets and I see no difference.

The law, in those cities, will likely say it's illegal to leave pets in an AUTOMOBILE, and a motor home is an AUTOMOBILE

As for a 5th wheel... There is a technicial argument there in that it's not AUTO-mobile unless it's hooked to its Tractor

But I would suspect that is where it comes from... So you know... I used to cook my lunch, in S.E. Michigan, In January, by leaving it on the dash of a white Ford Granada, Parked on the north side of a building facing north.

When I came out for lunch, I'd have to wait for the "heat and eat" meal to cool some before eating it

Now... Imagine how hot a vehicle can get (W/o airconditioning) in say, Nevada, in August.

That is why the law.... If you know of a city like that they need to put in an exception for Rectional Vehicles with air conditioning (Operating of course, or furnance, depending on the weather)

 

[quapaw]

A couple of things.  First, I didn't understand what the post about "reverse" threads was.  POL fittings are no longer used and they were left handed thread.  If you have these type fittings on the tanks, you will need an upgrade to them and to your connections to the regulator.  The new ones are totally different.  The hold down bracket is generally a 1/2 inch bolt with a wing nut to tighten and I have never seen a left handed thread on one.  As to filling 20#, 30# or 40# bottles or tanks in your unit, it is not allowed and shouldn't be done.  First, they will not fill them in a confined space such as you have on your fiver and they also fill by weight not gallons.  I have yet to see a tanker that is equipped for weighing the tanks.  That said, I have seen dealers that filled these tanks away from the units and using the old method of opening the 80% valve in the side of the valve and letting vapor escape until liquid appeared.  Used for years it has been discontinued because of the danger of overfilling of tanks and the danger of that valve loosening and leaking LP gas while in transit.  Motorhome tanks are very different and are filled with a different adapter.  They are commonly filled directly from the tanker, at a premium price.  LP gas is very volitile and should only be handled by professionals.  If you cannot handle the weight of the tanks on your unit, perhaps you can get someone to assist you.  Are you certain you can handle all of the chores required for setting up a unit and towing it.  There is a lot more than just getting out of the tow vehicle and into the trailer.  I know in my own instance it "ain't" as easy as it used to be. 

 

[Gary RV_Wizard]

First, I didn't understand what the post about "reverse" threads was.  POL fittings are no longer used and they were left handed thread.  If you have these type fittings on the tanks, you will need an upgrade to them and to your connections to the regulator.

That isn't quite so, quapaw.  As you say, the external Acme thread on the new OPD tank is a right-hand thread, but the tank valve still has internal threads that will accept POL connectors. That's a necessity, since most existing connections in RVs and house that use portable tanks have POL connectors on them and the tank would be useless without a way to accept POL connections. And the Overfill Protection Device still works fine - it is not dependent on connectiing via the new thread type.

 

[quapaw]

20#thru 40# LP tanks have an opening for the valve that is 3/4 inch IPT (internal pipe thread) and the new approved valve has both the external threads to accomodate the new right hand hand tightened nut or cap plus an internal POL acceptable fitting.  However, the old style rubber hoses with the POL fitting do not appear to be available any longer.  I tried my suppliers when I had the recent problem with leaking hoses which I noted in a couple of earlier posts.  As I have my tanks filled in only 3 or 4 locations and all have filler valves that no longer use the POL opening for filling, I can only assume the older ones have been eliminated or soon will be.  The new valves do have the old 80% fitting in the valves but as I understand federal law, are not to be used.  They defeat the 80% system now required in small tanks.  Filling these tanks too full can allow liquid LP gas to enter the RV system and cause much damage.  When using LP gas for motor fuel one uses liquid rather than vapor into a converter unit which in turns vaporizes the liquid.  That unit has to have a heat source to vaporize the liquid.  Most use the coolant in an engine but some air cooled engines use manifold heat to do so as some generator systems do.  Just a couple of years ago I watched a tanker filling 30# bottles in which he created too much pressure in the tank and hose which in turn blew apart the hose and "burned" the operator severly.  Freeze burn as LP vaporizes at about 34 below zero F.  Fortunately the valve on the tanker slammed as it is supposed to do in instances such as that and no major leakage was created.  Their drivers had been instructed not to fill small bottles (tanks) from the truck tank but the driver either forgot or ignored the instructions.  I suspect he was making a few extra bucks cash and payed the price.  Motorhome tank valve use the same filler valve that the larger 100 up to several gallon tanks use and also are installed into the tanks with IPT, generally 3/4 inch but in some cases larger.  Some small tanks were converted with a valve that still accepted the POL valve without the newer external fittings during the first or second year of the new regulations but it wasn't any cheaper.  All tanks have to be re-certified in a 10 year or so period.  Most RVs do not keep the units that long so many don't realize it.  Many LP dealers never check the stamp on the tanks until they were caught.  Many even "re-certified" the tanks and never inspected them, just putting on a new date in the ring.  There seems to be unscrupulous people everywhere.  A quick note on the availability of the old style hose and POL fittings.  I was told by Marshall Brass' legal team that the reason the older type neoprene hose and fittings were not used was cost.  The RV and grill people won't pay the extra cost of the (IMO) better hoses.  I assume people have problems trying to figure out right and left handed threads as how can you tell someone clockwise and counter clockwise when everyone wears a digital watch.  :  LP gas is too dangerous to be blase about.  If you have ever seen the remnants of a RV that has burned you will understand.  Regulators should be check regularly to ensure they are reducing the pressure to the proper amount and no obstructions such as spider webs etc are in the system.  Wax (paraffin) build up is possible though I've not encountered in in an RV.  I have in motorfuel systems.  It would be a wonderful idea for every dealer to take the time to explain how the systems in an RV work, all of them.  Too many people out there that don't have a clue on what they are doing and some of them are RV salesmen.  Time to get off as I have been on too long now and I will probably start stepping on some toes pretty quick. 

 

[John From Detroit]

LP gas is too dangerous to be blase about.? If you have ever seen the remnants of a RV that has burned you will understand.?

TV show NCIS.  Man is holed up in a trailer with his dog and a gun has NCIS folks pinned down

"Tony" (one of the NCIS types) is ready to call for SWAT,  GIBBS (Tony's boss on the show) said, I have a better idea, whistles for the dog, which comes running, and tells his team "you might want to cover your ears"

He double tapps the LP tanks.

Once the smoke clears Tony says "I think you got him boss"

This, is of course fiction.... But I've seen what happens when LP blows and trust me, that part they got right (Nothing left of that Airstream but it's frame)

 

[quapaw]

Oddly enough I saw the remnant of a travel trailer that had caught fire as it was being towed.  The driver saw the smoke, pulled into a farm field drive way and unhooked the unit and drove a distance away and watched it burn leaving only the metal frame and 4, yes 4, 20# LP tanks, 3 of them which were full or nearly so.  Two were hooked up to the trailer and the other two were being transported in the trailer.  Badly scorched but still full after they cooled enough to be handled and the pot metal handles melted away, for some unknown reason they didn't vent nor blow.  Up here is cold country it has been known to get temperatures below 35 degrees below zero.  Making certain there were no leaks, people have started fires next to the 500 gallon or 1000 gallon tanks to warm them so the LP would vaporize.  Having used LP for many years I probably did some dumb things but not that.  I have changed tank valves with the temps in the minus 20 degree and in a remote area.  You lose some gas but not as much as you would think.  I would aways try and release as much pressure as possible.  These were small tanks up to 35 gallons or so.  We used them for motor fuel. 

 

[Gary RV_Wizard]

Use of the POL fitting does not defeat the OPD (80%) safety device - that is a function of a float-operated shut off valve and does not in any way depend on the type of output connection.  However, the POL connector does defeat the Excess Flow feature which is also built into the most of new OPD valves.  This feature, which requires a compatible connector,  limits the flow of LP in the event a regulator bolws out or a hose is cut but still allows enough LP to fuel BBQ grills and other common aplications. The flow may be insufficient for some heating and industrial applications, however, and special valves are available to provide greater flow for those purposes.

I haven't heard that the POL connectors are ilegal to sell, though that may vary by the codes in effect in any given area.  As I understand it, the code update (NFPA #58-1998) that requires OPD protection does not require Excess Flow protection as well, but I haven't studied all of it.  Retailers are probably dropping the POL connectors because they are not used on new BBQ grills (as required by an ANSI standard for portable grills) and consumers hate them and love the large knob and right hand thread on the Acme connectors.  If you had to replace a connector, why stay with the old POL type?

 

[John From Detroit]

Though it can be difficult to find POL stuff these days it's still very much in use.  For example if you have a motor home with a fixed tank, I'll bet that the fitting is POL (mine is, 2005.5) and if you have a 100lb bottle outside your house like the ones I grew up with, Again, odds are they are POL, 25 lb bottles  for your grill, OPD but the bigger, teh more likely to be Prest-o-Lite (POL)

That said,,, It was mentioned that using a POL fitting defeats the excess flow device... I obtained a Marshall Brass "extend-a-stay" device for my Motor home... The one I have consists of a POL pass through, a "propane bottle" type "Accessory" outlet and another fitting for connecting an external gas bottle to "extend your stay" without haveing to drive to the refill station.

It has all the necessary check valves and shut off valves and.... AN EXCESS FLOW VALVE  built into it.

Seems to allow everythign that needs gas to use gas, but if the pressure on the outlet side dropps suddenly... Shut off time.

YOu can remove the "Dust plug" (Brass plug designed to keep dust out) from the inlet, soap it and no bubbles

And of course w/o a hose or other adapter screwed into the outlet there is no flow there either.

I'd say this thing does everythign but make the coffee... However if I use an old fashion range top perkerlator on the stove in the MH to make the coffee... Well, then it's going to be involved since it will pass the gas to the stove

The moral is POL is out there,,, You may have to look for it.

That said, I don't think I saw much in the way of POL/hose assemblies last time I looked (Other than the Extend-a-stay/Extend-a-flow  stuff)

 

[24theroad]

Great info. We've practiced and can haul them in and out ourselves. Bruno read all your comments and says thanks a lot.

I'm sorry I "double subjected" originally, but just to let you know, the dogs are handling RV life just fine. They never make a sound, and understand that the big thing with wheels is their temporary home. HOWEVER....we got home last night and they barked their silly heads off.....knowing it was allowed here. Maybe they're smarter than I thought 

Roll On

 

[Steve CDN]

Glad to hear things are going well!