Questions on buying a 4 season Travel Trailer

[Sportsman227]

We are planning on buying a 4 season Travel Trailer to live in for a few years while our house is built. The plan is to purchase a new trailer in the Spring of 2025. We will be living in a RV park with full hookups and a laundry facility. We live in Arkansas and it does get below freezing sometimes so a 4 season trailer is a must. Max spend is around 50k.

We have been researching on the internet and going to many RV stores like Camping World, Moix, and Blue Compass, looking at Travel Trailer brands.

So far we are looking at the Grand Design Reflection 296RDTS and Alliance Delta 292RL. We are leaning more towards the GD Reflection because of the R value and Artic protection package and the wife likes the layout. The Alliance is nice also and says it’s certified for full time living. The Alliance salesman says it has a similar 4 season package also, but I’m having a hard time finding info on Alliance website on the R values. Just would like to know everyone’s opinions on these 2 trailers and any others brands we should look at it the 50k price range. We have plenty of time to look at and research until next spring. Any help is appreciated.

 

[Gary RV_Wizard]

It's been my experience that an "Arctic Package" is just marketing speak for "we charge extra for the insulation we left out of the base model". The more upscale rigs don't have an Arctic Package option because decent insulation is standard. Sadly, much RV advertising is long on superficial claims and short of specifics like R-values. And of course none of them mention the numerous gaps around plumbing & wiring or spots where there is no insulation at all. Or the ceiling vents and skylights that let heat flow in/out at will.

Sorry - I have no data about Alliance that would help you decide between those two..

 

[SC_RVer]

Do you ever plan on towing it anywhere and using it as a "normal" camper?

If not, a more permanent solution and probably more comfortable living trailer would be a park model like this:

https://www.rvuniverse.com/listing/...52SX4cbjlA9yt2FmGBhoCN3YQAvD_BwE&gad_source=1

 

[Sportsman227]

Thanks Gary. We did notice the quality is not the greatest on RVs, but kind of knew that going in. I’m a retired aircraft mechanic, so I’m good at fixing things unless it’s a major issue.

 

[Sportsman227]

Do you ever plan on towing it anywhere and using it as a "normal" camper?

If not, a more permanent solution and probably more comfortable living trailer would be a park model like this:

https://www.rvuniverse.com/listing/...52SX4cbjlA9yt2FmGBhoCN3YQAvD_BwE&gad_source=1

Would rather have a normal Travel Trailer. After the house is built we would maybe sell it or maybe take it camping in the future. Just concerned about the 4 season living since it might be a few years that we would need to live in it. The RV parks that we looked at are year around. We might stop in a few and see if any of the owners would talk to us about it. Might get some great info that way.

 

[Tulecreeper]

We just moved from Mansfield, AR back in March. I'll tell you, I would not want to have to spend a winter in an RV in that area. There was always a week or two in Jan or Feb when the temps dropped below 0° F and there isn't a trailer made that will keep you warm through that unless you light it on fire.

 

[Derby6]

If campground will allow you to skirt the trailer. I’m not so sure 4 seasons is needed. 4 seasons has a little more insulation and often heated tanks.
Being it Arkansas, it’s not gonna be frigid cold for long periods. If you can skirt and insulate and run PVC piping to dump I think that would suffice and you could focus more on price, quality, and floor plan you like. The floor plan that suits you guys being VERY important to live in for a few years.

 

[Tulecreeper]

If campground will allow you to skirt the trailer. I’m not so sure 4 seasons is needed. 4 seasons has a little more insulation and often heated tanks.
Being it Arkansas, it’s not gonna be frigid cold for long periods. If you can skirt and insulate and run PVC piping to dump I think that would suffice and you could focus more on price, quality, and floor plan you like. The floor plan that suits you guys being VERY important to live in for a few years.

I guess you've never lived in Arkansas. And I guess it depends on what you consider 'long periods'. In west Central AR, about 15 minutes from the OK border, there is a period every year when the daytime temp never gets out of the mid-20's, and the nighttime temps will drop below 0°. A long enough period of time where any water tank or hose connection will freeze solid and not defrost for a couple of weeks, and no amount of RV insulation will keep it remotely comfortable. Usually also several times when an ice storm moves through, coats everything like a skating rink, bringing down trees and power lines, cutting off power and shutting down traffic for a couple days.

Arkansas is not cypress trees and Spanish moss like down in Louisiana.

 

[Tom]

So far we are looking at the Grand Design Reflection 296RDTS and Alliance Delta 292RL. We are leaning more towards the GD Reflection because of the R value and Artic protection package and the wife likes the layout. The Alliance is nice also and says it’s certified for full time living. The Alliance salesman says it has a similar 4 season package also, but I’m having a hard time finding info on Alliance website on the R values. Just would like to know everyone’s opinions on these 2 trailers and any others brands we should look at it the 50k price range. We have plenty of time to look at and research until next spring. Any help is appreciated.

We have a GD Reflection 367BHS with the Arctic Four season package. We use it through the summer on our lot in Wyoming, and put it in covered storage here for the winter.

Temps here get 'low' during late summer nights, but rarely much below freezing. All I can say is that the insulation on this Reflection (with 4-season package) is significantly inferior to that on our Monaco Motorhome (without a 4-season package).

Our on-board LPG tanks empty quickly if we use them for heating, so we use the built-in electric "fire" and a couple of portable electric heaters, one in the bedroom and one to supplement the electric fire. If you can install a large external LPG tank on your lot, it will keep you toasty.

 

[Jkoht]

Look into ice houses like glacier, yeti, ice castle, or grey wolf. They are all over around here in northern MN and you can use them all year round. They are insulated for winter use, high end models have summer features as well like AC and awnings, and most feature water packages for toilet, shower, and sink that are insulated against the cold.

 

[IBTripping]

There are RV owners who live fulltime in trailers in Canada. So, it can be done because there are a number of things that can be done to make winter camping more comfortable. For instance, skirting the trailer with an electric heater under the trailer. Other strategies include covering the windows and window frames with reflectix, putting insulated pads in the ceiling vents (Amazon), and covering the slide out with foam board. If I had the resources, I'd pay for a 4 season trailer such as Outdoor RV (ORV), LANCE, Grand Design with the 4 Seasons package, Artic Fox, etc. However, you'd still need to do extra winterizing with any of the 4 season trailers.

There are some good YouTube videos that describe various ways to set up a trailer for successful winter camping. Here are a few:

 

[Edd505]

Works for TT or 5W

 

[Kirk]

We did notice the quality is not the greatest on RVs, but kind of knew that going in.

My son bought an Alliance travel trailer last spring and has only good things to say about it and the company. It is his fourth trailer. Here is a YouTube video comparing Grand Design and Alliance by a couple who have owned both.

As to the so called, 4 season packages, what really matters is R value of insulation in walls, ceilings and also the floor, are tanks insulated and heated, and the size of the furnace. Alliance just builds the RV and does not have an extra 4 season package. Here is a link to the Alliance Owner's Group on the internet,

 

[Derby6]

I guess you've never lived in Arkansas. And I guess it depends on what you consider 'long periods'. In west Central AR, about 15 minutes from the OK border, there is a period every year when the daytime temp never gets out of the mid-20's, and the nighttime temps will drop below 0°. A long enough period of time where any water tank or hose connection will freeze solid and not defrost for a couple of weeks, and no amount of RV insulation will keep it remotely comfortable. Usually also several times when an ice storm moves through, coats everything like a skating rink, bringing down trees and power lines, cutting off power and shutting down traffic for a couple days.

Arkansas is not cypress trees and Spanish moss like down in Louisiana.

Long periods is months, not days or weeks — and not seeing above single digits or teens.
As others have shown folks have and still do it in MUCH colder areas. Skirting and a small elec heater under trailer won’t keep it balmy, but keep it from freezing. And because it’s only necessary for 2 weeks- 2 months (at extreme most) it’s affordable.
Ice storm effects anyone and everyone. At least trailer easy to hook to a generator.

 

[Tulecreeper]

Long periods is months, not days or weeks — and not seeing above single digits or teens.
As others have shown folks have and still do it in MUCH colder areas. Skirting and a small elec heater under trailer won’t keep it balmy, but keep it from freezing. And because it’s only necessary for 2 weeks- 2 months (at extreme most) it’s affordable.
Ice storm effects anyone and everyone. At least trailer easy to hook to a generator.

Agreed, but I wouldn't want to deal with it even for a week. Also, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't want to put an electric anything under the trailer for fear of it shorting out and causing a fire. Too damp under there when the snow melt, or after a rain so I'd need to constantly be pulling it out and putting it back in again (that's what she said!).

 

[Bearcatrp]

Look into ice houses like glacier, yeti, ice castle, or grey wolf. They are all over around here in northern MN and you can use them all year round. They are insulated for winter use, high end models have summer features as well like AC and awnings, and most feature water packages for toilet, shower, and sink that are insulated against the cold.

Saw my 1st ice castle 5th wheel this year. Big one. No way I would put that beast on the ice. This would be your best bet for winter living. Not cheap but they are true 4 season. These so called arctic packages are nothing more than extra insulation underneath where the pipes come down. Also, stay as far away from camping world as possible. All they care about is a sale. Go to a smaller local rv dealer. They will take care of you allot better. Good luck on your plans. Keep us posted as you go down this path.

 

[DutchmenSport]

If you are really interested in a Grand Design and how functional they are in cold weather, then you need to visit the Grand Design RV forum.

https://www.mygrandrv.com/forum/

Over there, you'll get straight-up answers from actual owners of the Grand Design who will have first hand experience with that model.

I do know, my Montana High Country is suppose to be rated for zero degrees. When it's near zero, yes .... the pipes do not frees up. But, I run through a 30 pound propane tank about ever 24 hours. 50% of the heat the furnace blows, goes under the floor. The furnace runs and never shuts off when it gets that cold. But, the pipes do not freeze .... and the tank heaters MUST be turned on. But, that still does not stop the end of the sewer discharge pipes from freezing. So, it's REAL important that all the water is drained when dumping and the hoses are disconnected between dumps.

 

[Sportsman227]

Thanks everyone for your replies. We currently live in Arkansas so we know how winter is sometimes. I will checkout the videos and will definitely stay away from Camping World.

 

[Kirk]

Keep us posted as you shop and feel free to ask more questions.