Roof troubles - your opinion please

[kgasmart]

Hey all, new to this forum, we owned a pop-up for several years when we lived "up north," have owned a 24-foot Starcraft Autumn Ridge Outfitter for 5 years - and now I've got a problem.

Sometime over the past year something punctured our roof membrane and water got in. This was discovered during our annual roof inspection at the dealer, who quoted us a price of $8,900 to replace the roof - just under half of what we paid for the entire camper. Shoot me now.

On the advice of another potential roof repair guy I filed an insurance claim. Now Progressive is telling me they need to have the roof peeled back to see the extent of the damage before they determine whether it's covered or not. From what the claims rep is saying, it sounds like more damage = the less likely they are to cover it as it may indicate seepage rather than limited damage at the spot of the hole.

My problem (one of many) is this: If I haul this down to the dealer, they peel back the roof and Progressive says "Nope, not covered," I'm over a barrel - either I have to cough up the $8,900 then and there to have the dealer do the work, or I have to somehow get the camper with the ripped up roof back to home base to ponder the next move.

Wondered if anyone has faced such a dilemma, and if so what you did. We've gotten quite a bit of use out of this camper for the past five years, but boy, it sure went from asset to liability very quickly!

 

[John From Detroit]

Progressive talks a good talk but they run you around like the blazes when you file a claim. (Reason #1 why I switched to another company.,. there are other reasons).

You mentioned "This was discovered during our annual roof inspection at the dealer," This will work in your favor when it comes to arguing with Progreedy insurance as if it was long term seepage over years.. The dealer would have found it last year or the before year.

 

[Onyrlef]

Do you see any water damage? How big is the tear?
If you've been having the roof inspected yearly then there's been less than a year for the roof to have leaked.
There's a good chance the damage, if any is minimal. Were it mine and there is no visible evidence of water damage I'd patch it and carry on.

 

[SpencerPJ]

I would look for a mobile rv tech to come and give his opinion. Just Google that and your zipcode.

 

[Mark_K5LXP]

You need to explore the option of someone other than the dealer to do the work. Maybe they're the only facility the insurance works with for estimates so you're kinda stuck there for the claim, but they're not the only game in town for installing camper roofs if it's not covered. Consider doing it yourself, there's not much to these things. It doesn't have to be ideal or pretty. Try to keep things in perspective, this is a camper not an exotic collector car restoration. Spending 9 grand is no different than taking a 9 grand hit on the back end at sale time, meanwhile the thing is depreciating. You would be money ahead to patch the thing up and go camping. My take on it would be to let the dealer do their assessment then transition to a plan B if that goes sideways.

Mark B.
Albuquerque, NM

 

[Domo]

I'm with @Onyrlef, partially because the BEST solution for the DEALER is to replace your roof.

Photos would certainly give the forum members a better grasp of the size of the issue.

If you see no staining/leaks inside and there is no rotted/moldy smell I'd bet that a few pieces of Eternabond might to the job just fine.

Of course, a second opinion from some other repair facility will help you decide on a course of action.

 

[kgasmart]

Thanks all. Pic of the hold/puncture "wound" itself attached. It almost looks as if someone took a ballpoint pen and punched it through the membrane.

The roof feels very "soft" at the front of the camper where this hole is located; I have no idea how long it's been there (or if the dealer somehow missed it during previous inspections) but the softness of the roof suggests the damage may be fairly significant. The Progressive rep got on the roof and said it seemed to her we need two new panels.

We did get one drip inside the camper in a light fixture - that was the first clue something was wrong, right before the most recent roof inspection.

We've also been through two hurricanes and a very rainy Florida wet season since the last roof inspection.

So bottom line neither I nor the dealer nor Progressive knows how bad the damage is and the only way to find out for sure is to peel back the membrane and take a look. And then have Progressive tell me it isn't covered, and then have the dealer say - so what are you gonna do?

It may indeed be the better plan to try and get a moble RV tech in here to assess and do the work. Or, to just patch it and go camping.

 

[Onyrlef]

Thanks all. Pic of the hold/puncture "wound" itself attached. It almost looks as if someone took a ballpoint pen and punched it through the membrane.

The roof feels very "soft" at the front of the camper where this hole is located; I have no idea how long it's been there (or if the dealer somehow missed it during previous inspections) but the softness of the roof suggests the damage may be fairly significant. The Progressive rep got on the roof and said it seemed to her we need two new panels.

We did get one drip inside the camper in a light fixture - that was the first clue something was wrong, right before the most recent roof inspection.

We've also been through two hurricanes and a very rainy Florida wet season since the last roof inspection.

So bottom line neither I nor the dealer nor Progressive knows how bad the damage is and the only way to find out for sure is to peel back the membrane and take a look. And then have Progressive tell me it isn't covered, and then have the dealer say - so what are you gonna do?

It may indeed be the better plan to try and get a moble RV tech in here to assess and do the work. Or, to just patch it and go camping.

You’ve got insurance and a leak. Time to have a come to Jesus moment with your carrier. It’s not your responsibility to do the adjusters job. If she says she thinks there’s damage and during the repair you find further damage the claim can be amended. If you think there’s damage and choose to forego a claim you may not be able to collect down the road. Sometimes you have to speak to folks in a language they understand.

Your a/c will do better if you clean the roof up.

 

[CharlesinGA]

The problem with replacing part of a roof, is that, and I was told this by the Dicor tech support people, that you cannot apply their (or most other brands) of adhesive, over old adhesive. It is water based and needs somewhere for the water to go. Normally it absorbs into the wood, but if it has old adhesive on it, it seals the wood and prevents the water from absorbing into the wood and the adhesive will not cure. The normal fix is to add thin 1/8 thick Luan plywood to the roof over the existing wood. This is retained with construction adhesive and short nails or staples into the old roof wood. Then the new EDPM or TPO is applied over this, and........ none of the old trim fits properly after that.

What I did was strip the roof of the old wood, which was 3/8 OSB which is heavy, and replaced it with 11/32 plywood which is stronger and lighter. I sistered the trusses while is was opened up and it looked real nice after I was done.

There are a few pics of it HERE, the last 12 pics or so is the roof work.

Charles

 

[gwinger]

This is typical Progressive BULL. Hidden damage should also be covered after it's discovered. The adjuster has no idea just by looking at the roof.
It's the same as damage to a car from an accident. Some damage may not be visible until parts are removed.
One reason I dropped Progressive. Their coverage language needs a lot to be desired. They just give you a run around when calling them.

 

[Derby6]

With prices you’re talking they may total it, so keep that in mind.

 

[kgasmart]

With prices you’re talking they may total it, so keep that in mind.

At this point I'd probably welcome that

 

[Gary RV_Wizard]

There is a very low cost option: put a patch over the hole, e.g. Etarnabond tape, and wait and see if any further problems develop. While it's certainly possible that mold or wood rot has or will occur, it's not a foregone conclusion either. Probably no worse than 30% chance. I've handled several small leaks that way, with no further problems. Ventilate the area well after sealing the source up top. Maybe remove ceiling fixtures or trim pieces to promote air circulation, and focusing a fan into the area as well. Give it 2-3 days to dry up, not just an hour or so.

Option 2 is to cut out a square of the rubber (?) membrane and peel it back enough to see the surrounding wood. A 12"x12" piece is sufficient to see the immediate area and not difficult to replace, despite the adhesive issue that Charles explained (use different adhesive type). However, if water has been running down the sidewall or has gathered in a distance place, you still won't know. Look for places where something can be removed to check for clues of water damage, e.g. lift a carpet or laminate edge to see if water trickled down to the floor. You might also try a moisture meter and push the sensor pins into ceiling and walls to get an idea if anything is still wet.

Insurance covers water penetration due to accidental penetration or wind-driven water. Not wear & tear or normal aging. That neat hole certainly did NOT occur due to normal wear & tear, though it's hard to imagine what did make it (looks like a nail!). But failure to take reasonable action to prevent further water damage is also your responsibility and that is highly subjective.

 

[Professor David]

With prices you’re talking they may total it, so keep that in mind.

I agree. They may total it. If they do, take the money and patch the hole. Check back here for advice on a diy patch. There are really good products out there to repair this. From ur pic it seems minor. In fact seal that up as soon as you can. Maybe with a temp tape fix that you can remove for the insurance adjuster. U do not want more water coming in.
My experience with insurance companies of late is they say no until you are persistent with pics and/or a second opinion. Then they have always covered things for us eventually.

 

[Onyrlef]

I agree. They may total it. If they do, take the money and patch the hole. Check back here for advice on a diy patch. There are really good products out there to repair this. From ur pic it seems minor. In fact seal that up as soon as you can. Maybe with a temp tape fix that you can remove for the insurance adjuster. U do not want more water coming in.
My experience with insurance companies of late is they say no until you are persistent with pics and/or a second opinion. Then they have always covered things for us eventually.

Many of them have a standing policy to deny. They know a % of customers will go away before putting up a fight. United Health Care has an AI program which denies almost all first claims, gets 80% of those wrong and they're good with it.

 

[Onyrlef]

Ins That neat hole certainly did NOT occur due to normal wear & tear, though it's hard to imagine what did make it (looks like a nail!). But failure to take reasonable action to prevent further water damage is also your responsibility and that is highly subjective.

I thought phillips screwdriver. It appeared too perfectly round for a tree limb.

 

[kgasmart]

There is a very low cost option: put a patch over the hole, e.g. Etarnabond tape, and wait and see if any further problems develop. While it's certainly possible that mold or wood rot has or will occur, it's not a foregone conclusion either. Probably no worse than 30% chance. I've handled several small leaks that way, with no further problems. Ventilate the area well after sealing the source up top. Maybe remove ceiling fixtures or trim pieces to promote air circulation, and focusing a fan into the area as well. Give it 2-3 days to dry up, not just an hour or so.

Option 2 is to cut out a square of the rubber (?) membrane and peel it back enough to see the surrounding wood. A 12"x12" piece is sufficient to see the immediate area and not difficult to replace, despite the adhesive issue that Charles explained (use different adhesive type). However, if water has been running down the sidewall or has gathered in a distance place, you still won't know. Look for places where something can be removed to check for clues of water damage, e.g. lift a carpet or laminate edge to see if water trickled down to the floor. You might also try a moisture meter and push the sensor pins into ceiling and walls to get an idea if anything is still wet.

Insurance covers water penetration due to accidental penetration or wind-driven water. Not wear & tear or normal aging. That neat hole certainly did NOT occur due to normal wear & tear, though it's hard to imagine what did make it (looks like a nail!). But failure to take reasonable action to prevent further water damage is also your responsibility and that is highly subjective.

There is a huge tarp over the entire camper at this point & will seal the hole with Eternabond this weekend.

 

[kgasmart]

I agree. They may total it. If they do, take the money and patch the hole. Check back here for advice on a diy patch. There are really good products out there to repair this. From ur pic it seems minor. In fact seal that up as soon as you can. Maybe with a temp tape fix that you can remove for the insurance adjuster. U do not want more water coming in.
My experience with insurance companies of late is they say no until you are persistent with pics and/or a second opinion. Then they have always covered things for us eventually.

There's another factor in play here, which is - while we have had our roof inspected by the dealer every single year since we've had it (bought in 2019), they have never documented those inspections. "It never generated a work order for repairs until this last time, so there are no work orders." The service manager has told Progressive verbally and in writing that we got it inspected, but they have no paperwork to prove it. Neither do we, and of course we should have demanded something at the time. But we're the stupid consumers, they're the "experts."

Make it easier for Progressive to deny the claim.

 

[Professor David]

There's another factor in play here, which is - while we have had our roof inspected by the dealer every single year since we've had it (bought in 2019), they have never documented those inspections. "It never generated a work order for repairs until this last time, so there are no work orders." The service manager has told Progressive verbally and in writing that we got it inspected, but they have no paperwork to prove it. Neither do we, and of course we should have demanded something at the time. But we're the stupid consumers, they're the "experts."

Make it easier for Progressive to deny the claim.

I would just be persistent. Be patient with ur insurance contact person. They are just following orders from higher up bean counters.

 

[Onyrlef]

There's another factor in play here, which is - while we have had our roof inspected by the dealer every single year since we've had it (bought in 2019), they have never documented those inspections. "It never generated a work order for repairs until this last time, so there are no work orders." The service manager has told Progressive verbally and in writing that we got it inspected, but they have no paperwork to prove it. Neither do we, and of course we should have demanded something at the time. But we're the stupid consumers, they're the "experts."

Make it easier for Progressive to deny the claim.

Just from the looks of the roof in your pic. you may want to give it a good cleaning and after 5 years the vents, roof jacks, etc could need attention.