RV Kayak.....

[Gizmo]

I also agree with the rent before you buy idea, less chance of making a costly mistake. Renting would be less expensive than buying a cheap kayak, finding you like kayaking, then buying a better and more expensive one, conversely, buying a cheap kayak and finding you do not like it. Renting also gives you a chance to try both sit on and sit in kayaks to determine what you like. In my experience with kayaking, after owning inflatable kayaks, I would stay away from inflatable kayaks as we found it like paddling an inner tube, quite a bit of your paddling effort is absorbed by the flexible nature of inflatable kayaks, making it a slow and exhausting experience. The benefit to inflatable kayaks is for those with limited storage capacity or those who do not want to bother with loading on and off a roof rack. If this is the case a much better option are the portable kayaks which come in sections and packed in a bag for easy storage and transport. The advantage of these over inflatable is they are hard sided and have framing structure, making them paddle as easily as traditional hard sided kayaks. As far as sit on vs sit in - this is a personal choice, but a couple thoughts. As previously mentioned, if you intend to fish a sit on is likely the better choice. For general paddling around, either will work but you may find the sit on style is likely easier to get on and off, though unless physical limitations are an issue, sit in can easily be entered and exited with a little practice. For longer paddle adventures, touring and sea kayaking, sit in is the best choice. When we bought our first kayaks, as we had very limited storage capacity we bought inflatables, had we been aware of the portable kayaks I mentioned earlier, that would have been a much better and more enjoyable option. When we later had the space and means to store and carry kayaks we bought traditional hard sided kayaks and since have used them much more and have found much more enjoyment.

 

[Great Horned Owl]

After reading all of this thread, I surprised that nobody (besides me) has mentioned the canoe as an option. I probably shouldn't be surprised, because for some strange reason, everybody seems to want kayaks. You can even buy a kayak (although not a very good one) at Walmart.

As a man who has taught paddling, and who has paddled, designed, and built canoes for 64 years, and kayaks for 59 years, I feel qualified to address the question of which is better for any given purpose. As a side note, I built my first (whitewater) kayak in 1964 from fiberglass, in a borrowed mold. There were very few commercially available kayaks at the time, and no whitewater kayaks. I still own that kayak.

I will take a suitable kayak into grade IV rapids, where I wouldn't dream of taking a canoe. I will also take a touring kayak into ocean waters where I also would not take a canoe. Except for those two special purposes, I can see only one advantage of a kayak over a canoe. Most anybody can learn to be a fairly competent kayak paddler rather quickly, whereas it can take several years to become a good canoe paddler.

Look at the various advantages:

Weight
For two boats of the same length, and constructed of the same material, the canoe will generally be about 50% lighter. It doesn't need either a deck or a double hull.

Cargo
For two boats of the same same length, the canoe can carry a lot more gear. I've camped out of a canoe for six days. That would be difficult in most kayaks. It's also easier to access your gear without exiting your boat. I clip my camera to a thwart so that it's instantly available. That's difficult in many kayaks

Transport
A kayak often requires a fairly expensive specialty rack, while any old rack will work for a canoe.

Carrying
If the canoe has had a yoke installed, one person can throw it on his shoulders and walk away. If a sit in kayak is light enough, one person can rest the edge of the cockpit on their shoulder. Sit ons and heavier sit in need two people tocarry them.

Comfort
In a kayak, you are stuck in the seat, an (depending on the design) may have your feet and/or your knees up against foot braces or knee straps. I can paddle one for about four hours before I start getting leg cramps. In a canoe, you can alternate between sitting on the seat and kneeling.

Fishing Platform
The ability to move around in a canoe makes it a much better fishing platform.

Paddle Length
I have canoed some paddle trails in the Everglades, and a few other places, where the trail was so narrow that it was difficult to find room to insert the paddle into the water. It only worked at all, because the paddler sits in thr narrow ends of the boat. I watched the kayak users getting their paddles so tangled up in the vegetation, that they gave up, put stowed their paddles, and pulled themselves along by tugging on the vegetation. Watch out for the plants with thorns.

Ease of Entry and Exit
Canoes and sit on kayaks are easy to get in and out of. Sit in kayaks are much more difficult.

Availability
This is one other area where kayaks have some advantage. To purchase a decent canoe, you need to go to a specialty shop, whereas you can find kayaks all over the place. However, if you want a salesman who knows what he's talking about, you still need a specialty shop.

Tipping Over
If you tip over in a canoe, you pull it to shore, empty it, and get back in. It is possible to lift it over another canoe, drain the water, and climb back in, hopefully without tipping it over again especially in deep water.. If you tip over in a kayak, you may also need to pull it to shore. Some sit in kayaks can be rolled back up, but it takes quite a while to master that skill. A sit on kayak, can be rescued by lifting it oer another boat, just like a canoe. Getting back in can be trickier if in deep water.


the bottom line is that anybody who wants to start paddling, should seriously look at canoes as well as at kayaks.

Joel

 

[Great Horned Owl]

I forgot to list the most significant difference between canoes and kayaks. If you're a couple, you will probably need two kayaks, but only one canoe. There are some two person kayaks, but learning to paddle one of those takes a lot of teamwork, and lots of practice. Otherwise, you will constantly be crashing your paddles together.

Two person kayaks are also very heavy, expensive, and hard to find.

Joel

 

[Great Horned Owl]

If you can find a dealer who is close to a body of water. They will not only have knowledgeable sales people, but will often have demo boats that you can try out.

One of the best is Rutabaga Paddle Sports in Madison, Wi. If you don't live too far, Rutabaga sponsors Canoecopia every spring. It's like an RV show, except better. Unlike RV shows, they also have seminars, lectures, and loads of other programming. My daughter goes every year, and spends two full days. I go every few years.

Joel

 

[PancakeBill]

Just a note on inflatable kayaks. The better ones are not like paddling an inner tube. Big advance is the drop stitch technology. I have one and it is quite stiff and easy to paddle, I also have an Otter hardside, and it is better on flat water with a breeze.

I had a canoe, but had to trim down my flotilla, so sold it.
To flip one over and use the yoke, I used to be able to do it, but I aged a couple years and it attacked me. Told my wife i needed to get a Kevlar canoe. Or join a gym and take those TV supplements.

 

[Great Horned Owl]

Mine is kevlar. 18' long, and only 45 lbs. Those photos of me flopping it onto my shoulders were taken when I w3as 76 years old.

Joel

 

[Cameodon]

I would strongly suggest joining one of the many paddling clubs in Florida. Florida Paddle clubs.

Next, learn something about the effects of shape, hull, some of which are counter intuitive.

Some hulls are very efficient, and easy to propel, while others can feel like trying to push a bathtub through the water. Surprisingly, the longer the hull, the easier it is to paddle. Generally, anything less than about 14' or 15' will be very inefficient, and exhausting to paddle very far. The entry lines and )to a lesser extent) the exit lines are also important with respect to efficiency. Good lines require a complex curve, which can't be done in either a short hull, or an inflatable hull of any length.

Another consideration, is that an efficient hull will tend to track in a straight line, put will be a bit harder to turn. The less efficient hulls will be easier to turn, but will tend to wiggle back and forth.

Stability is another factor. Beginner paddlers tent to like flat bottomed hulls, because the impart a feeling of stability. They are quite stable when sitting flat in the water. This is called initial stability. However, when leaned a bit, they loose stability quickly, and can flip very suddenly. In short, they have terrible final stability. A hull with a shallow arch cross section, is just the opposite. They have little initial stability. sitting flat in the water, they tend to rock back and forth. This can feel rather scary. However, they fave very good final stability. As they are leaned over, they actually become more stable. I can lean my canoe far enough to get a little bit of water, just trickling over the gunwale. A flat bottomed hull will flip long before it gets to that point.

Another factor to consider, is weight. My 18', kevlar canoe weighs 45 lbs. Similar canoes made from some molded plastics can weigh 100 lbs. Weight isn't as significant a factor as some others when paddling, but I can throw mine on my shoulders and carry it. Once, when a sudden thunder storm came up, I carried it half a mile.

Finally, have you considered a canoe? I have two kayaks that we use for paddling whitewater, but for lakes or fla****er rivers, I would choose a canoe every time. Canoes are also easier to get in and out of, and they can carry a lot more gear.

I've attached photos of how I carry the canoe by myself (which is more difficult with many kayaks), and also how I carry it while pulling my 5th wheel.

Joel

Very difficult though to carry a 14-18 ft canoe on a 5th wheel trailer. Don’t get me wrong Iove a good light weight canoe, but whatever way we go I feel the max length must be MAX length 12’ and that is pushing it. They must be carried on a hitch on rear of 5th wheel. Hence I’m thinking 12 ft. 2 so if wife doesn’t enjoy it I’m not paddling around a 2 person rig alone!!

 

[Oldgator73]

They must be carried on a hitch on rear of 5th wheel. Hence I’m thinking 12 ft. 2 so if wife doesn’t enjoy it I’m not paddling around a 2 person rig alone!!

I hav a two person kayak and am usually the only one in it. It is much more stable than a single for me.

 

[Great Horned Owl]

Very difficult though to carry a 14-18 ft canoe on a 5th wheel trailer. Don’t get me wrong Iove a good light weight canoe, but whatever way we go I feel the max length must be MAX length 12’ and that is pushing it. They must be carried on a hitch on rear of 5th wheel. Hence I’m thinking 12 ft. 2 so if wife doesn’t enjoy it I’m not paddling around a 2 person rig alone!!

Yuk. a 12ft. canoe will paddle like a tub.

I carry my 18 ft. canoe while towing my 5th wheel. I have photos earlier in this thread (#19). That front bar goes to a front hitch. The upright and cross bar are available from several vendors. I use the Thule 997 Goal post.

Joel

 

[Cameodon]

Yuk. a 12ft. canoe will paddle like a tub.

I carry my 18 ft. canoe while towing my 5th wheel. I have photos earlier in this thread (#19). That front bar goes to a front hitch. The upright and cross bar are available from several vendors. I use the Thule 997 Goal post.

Joel

Very interesting!! Got me to thinking now!!! Thanks!

 

[migo_ylanan]

I recently purchased a ladder rack for my truck with a 6.5" bed. will a canoe contact the TT while turning? i was thinking of getting a 13-14' canoe.

 

[Cameodon]

I recently purchased a ladder rack for my truck with a 6.5" bed. will a canoe contact the TT while turning? i was thinking of getting a 13-14' canoe.

did you look at pics in post #19 by Great Horned Owl? You should be fine....

 

[Great Horned Owl]

did you look at pics in post #19 by Great Horned Owl? You should be fine....

These really aren't comparable situations. He's talking about a 13' to 14' canoe. Mine is 18'. He has a 6-1/2' bed, while mine is 8'. I use a single roof rack and a second rack on the front hitch. He is using two ladder rack, so both of them will be mounted on the bed rails.

That being said, I think that he will probably be ok. It may depend on how long the trailer tongue is.

Btw, unless we're talking about a narrow solo canoe, a 13 footer will paddle like a tub. A 14 footer will be a little bit better.

Joel

 

[migo_ylanan]

did you look at pics in post #19 by Great Horned Owl? You should be fine....

Yes, I saw those pics. The rack I got sits on the truck bed. I think i might have to move the canoe a little forward, over the cab more. Thank you

 

[migo_ylanan]

These really aren't comparable situations. He's talking about a 13' to 14' canoe. Mine is 18'. He has a 6-1/2' bed, while mine is 8'. I use a single roof rack and a second rack on the front hitch. He is using two ladder rack, so both of them will be mounted on the bed rails.

That being said, I think that he will probably be ok. It may depend on how long the trailer tongue is.

Btw, unless we're talking about a narrow solo canoe, a 13 footer will paddle like a tub. A 14 footer will be a little bit better.

Joel

Thank you Great Horned Owl

 

[Cameodon]

These really aren't comparable situations. He's talking about a 13' to 14' canoe. Mine is 18'. He has a 6-1/2' bed, while mine is 8'. I use a single roof rack and a second rack on the front hitch. He is using two ladder rack, so both of them will be mounted on the bed rails.

That being said, I think that he will probably be ok. It may depend on how long the trailer tongue is.

Btw, unless we're talking about a narrow solo canoe, a 13 footer will paddle like a tub. A 14 footer will be a little bit better.

Joel

BUT!! You're pulling a 5th wheel leaving MAYBE 4' of your 8' bed. He's pulling a trailer meaning the full bed length PLUS a couple ft behind truck available. Nothing says the canoe has to be centered over his racks if he pulls it a ft or two forward (which he can) he will be fine.
I like your advice, well most of it. the 13-14' part about paddling like a tub is way wrong. I've paddled many 12'-14 ' canoes and they are great.It's all about shape of the hull. I will have nothing over 14' max, but thats my tastes.

 

[Great Horned Owl]

BUT!! You're pulling a 5th wheel leaving MAYBE 4' of your 8' bed. He's pulling a trailer meaning the full bed length PLUS a couple ft behind truck available. Nothing says the canoe has to be centered over his racks if he pulls it a ft or two forward (which he can) he will be fine.
I like your advice, well most of it. the 13-14' part about paddling like a tub is way wrong. I've paddled many 12'-14 ' canoes and they are great.It's all about shape of the hull. I will have nothing over 14' max, but thats my tastes.

I said that my situation and his, are so different from one another that any comparison is essentially useless. I also said I thought that his arrangement would work.

I agree that there a few, very narrow, solo racing canoes in the shorter lengths that paddle well. Most of them are very asymmetrical, and tend to feel rather unstable. However, other than those, if you think that 12' to 14' canoes paddle well, I wonder if you've ever paddled an 18' cruiser, or an 18-1/2' racer.

Joel

 

[Cameodon]

As I said, to each their own, I have no use for an 18 foot canoe.

 

[bzerull]

Good point, but isn’t the “sit-in” more stable, no?

no, that is another reason i have a sit on that i love. A sit on has a flatter bottom than a sit in, which adds to more stability. i strongly suggest you try both.

 

[bzerull]

If you have a crew cab you can carry them on your trucks roof.

The problem for us older folks is getting the kayaks on and off these kinds of racks.