Service Expectations

[Onyrlef]

A national manufacturer with national dealers should stand behind both their product and their dealers.

They reimburse their dealers for the warranty work the dealer provides, but dealers have no obligation to do warranty work on RV's sold by competitors. Put yourself in the dealers shoes, if his service dept. is already operating at cost, his attitude is if you can drive 500 miles to buy an RV from a competitor you can use some of what you saved to drive it 500 miles to get it fixed there. I'm not letting you or my competitor make your problems, my problems.

 

[Oldgator73]

They reimburse their dealers for the warranty work the dealer provides, but dealers have no obligation to do warranty work on RV's sold by competitors. Put yourself in the dealers shoes, if his service dept. is already operating at cost, his attitude is if you can drive 500 miles to buy an RV from a competitor you can use some of what you saved to drive it 500 miles to get it fixed there. I'm not letting you or my competitor make your problems, my problems.

People mistakenly think that RV purchases are treated the same as regular vehicle purchases. With RV’s after the sale you are pretty much on your own. In a lot of cases even if you are dealing with the shop you purchased your RV from you won’t get good service. The RV industry doesn’t seem to care too much about reputation and since there are not many, if any, protections for buyers it would be highly recommended to do your research. It’s a heartbreaker to purchase a shiny new RV and plan your trip with the family, everybody is excited, and you can’t even get your new toy out of the driveway. You contact the dealership and are told to bring it in and they might get to it in the next several months. Not trying to scare anyone out of purchasing an RV but folks need to know what they are getting into. By the way, despite the problems we’ve had with RV’s and dealerships, we have had a blast traveling around the country in both our 5th wheel and little TT.

 

[Kirk]

Keep in mind that when any of us comment on a specific person's RV issues, we do so with only the facts as stated by the one making the initial post. As such we must assume that all facts are as stated in that post, which may not always be entirely accurate. Since we do that it is safe to say that there probably are times that we are unfair to the shop, dealer, or manufacturer involved. It is possible that sometimes there is another side to the incident that we are unaware of. I made a career in the customer service and repair industry, though not RVs it taught me that there is sometimes more to the story. I have found that the average skill set of RV techs isn't what it probably should be, but there are some who are honest about that and there are some who are very skilled. The trick is in knowing how to find out which you are dealing with.

 

[Larry N.]

So I thought, but these three things in the post by @Oldgator73 are worrisome about them these days:

(1) No local dealerships would work on it since we didn’t purchase from them

(2) he couldn’t do the other one because the factory stiffed him on the bill (Reason for #1?)

(3) Their fix for it was to send me a new window and tell me they were done with it.

But these complaints are far from unique to Winnebago. Dealers for any make and most any factory is a possibility for those happenings, so that's not a reason, in and of itself, to rule them out. RVs and their service (or lack of) are totally unrelated to what you see and expect in the automobile market. If you choose the above "reasons" to sty away, then you soon find there is no brand you will choose.

And take special note of Kirk's post above, since we often don't get ALL of the details involved.

So with the above you'd do yourself a disservice.

 

[Knobs1]

But these complaints are far from unique to Winnebago. ...

Perhaps, but as @Kirk states (or at least I infer from what he states), they are also not universal.

The one of the three I listed that is most disturbing is Winnie (apparently, from what was stated) washing their hands of the deal while still under warranty.

Referring to my earlier comment, part of the manufacturer supporting their dealers is recognizing that they need to make money, too.

 

[Gary RV_Wizard]

So I thought, but these three things in the post by @Oldgator73 are worrisome about them these days:

(1) No local dealerships would work on it since we didn’t purchase from them

(2) he couldn’t do the other one because the factory stiffed him on the bill (Reason for #1?)

(3) Their fix for it was to send me a new window and tell me they were done with it.


Sometimes people move.

A national manufacturer with national dealers should stand behind both their product and their dealers.

My point is that even the better RV manufacturers fall short of what most people expect for service and warranty. If you rule out Winnebago and go to another brand, you may very well be jumping from the frying pan into the fire!

 

[Kirk]

but as @Kirk states (or at least I infer from what he states), they are also not universal.

You are correct.

 

[workinonit]

After buying a 5er I can't imagine in my wildest dreams anyone that is not proficient in the art of using tools and having mechanical and electrical ability owning one of these things. Just the upgrades that mine needed (or maybe some that I wanted) were daunting not to mention expensive. I don't hand off repairs and work very well when I know more about the work than the person that I am hiring. And so far that's the case at these dealers. The techs I've run into know enough to keep their RVs going but they aren't knowledgeable about all of the systems on RVs. It's a very unusual industry and business model. Yet these things are rolling off the lines in record numbers. Go figure.

 

[Oldgator73]

We can only relate our experience. There always comes a time when somebody says “Why didn’t anybody tell me!”.
Our first RV was a 37’ triple slide 5th wheel. We purchased it a year before I retired from the AF. We fulltimed in it for five years. We had problems within the warranty period. The front cap delaminated, tires were going bald and the entering wiring harness burned up. It was a Thor. We took it to the factory and they gave us a bit of a hard time saying the middle axle was bent and it was my fault. After explaining to them that it would be near impossible to bend the middle axle without damaging one or both of the other two. They agreed to fix it. I also told them that since this was our house they were going to pay for a hotel room while they repaired it. We traveled back and forth across the country for five years. Despite the ominous beginning to our adventure we loved every minute of it.

 

[workinonit]

Yep. And honestly if someone would have told me all of the horror stories I would have still bought mine, for several reasons.

 

[Knobs1]

I'm not naïve about the RV industry, having owned a couple over the past decades (including a Winnebago in years gone by), but...

General comment (i.e. not replying to any post in particular)...

It would seem that a forum like this one would be where one could voice complaints about, lobby for changes, point out bad actors, etc., in the industry rather than just say c'est la vie ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

(Or, even just yell at the clouds!)

 

[rvlifer]

After buying a 5er I can't imagine in my wildest dreams anyone that is not proficient in the art of using tools and having mechanical and electrical ability owning one of these things. Just the upgrades that mine needed (or maybe some that I wanted) were daunting not to mention expensive. I don't hand off repairs and work very well when I know more about the work than the person that I am hiring. And so far that's the case at these dealers. The techs I've run into know enough to keep their RVs going but they aren't knowledgeable about all of the systems on RVs. It's a very unusual industry and business model. Yet these things are rolling off the lines in record numbers. Go figure.

I dont find it unusual at all. Seems like there are a lot of similarities with autos, motorcycles, and houses.

1st motorcycle i owned started having problems and wouldnt start. Took it to the dealer i bought it from and they kept saying it was water in the gas. they charged me a lot of money for labor to drain the fuel tank and busted the fuel tank doing a pressure test. Turned out to be the battery.

I got into doing my own work on houses cause the companies doing that work charged tons and too many times sent guys who didnt know what they are doing. In too many cases there was no way to justify what they were charging when you knew how much the materials cost and how much labor was needed.

The rv industry has a couple of interesting wrinkles. Poorly built rvs seem to be the accepted norm and they cant keep up on the service work. Companies that try to build a better rv and do the right thing are at a disadvantage and too often dont survive.

 

[rvlifer]

I'm not naïve about the RV industry, having owned a couple over the past decades (including a Winnebago in years gone by), but...

General comment (i.e. not replying to any post in particular)...

It would seem that a forum like this one would be where one could voice complaints about, lobby for changes, point out bad actors, etc., in the industry rather than just say c'est la vie ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

(Or, even just yell at the clouds!)

Its worse than that. There is the tendency to blame the buyer/owner when they post issues. Happens everywhere, including this forum.

 

[Kirk]

(Or, even just yell at the clouds!)

Sometimes that seems to be the only way.

Poorly built rvs seem to be the accepted norm and they cant keep up on the service work. Companies that try to build a better rv and do the right thing are at a disadvantage and too often dont survive.

In my years of experience, I think that RVs, more than most other high cost items, are purchased based more on price than any other factor by the majority of the customers. Since quality control is something that costs the factory a lot of money with little or no return in the RV industry, few RV manufacturers have much of it until you get into the million dollar RV market where price is no consideration. I suspect that is partly due to the fact that the majority of RV sales are to people who will only use them occasionally and do not live in them much. The way that I see it, the poor quality of the majority is the fault of we buyers who are unwilling to pay what it costs to have effective quality control.

There is the tendency to blame the buyer/owner when they post issues. Happens everywhere, including this forum.

While that does happen at dealerships far more than it should and sometimes by the factory when a dealer tries to help it's customers. I have only rarely seen the person with an issue blamed for it on RV forums that I visit. I am also sure that there are incidents where a problem was caused by the RV owner, but doubt that it happens very often and when it does, that could have been caused by a poor walk-through by the dealer personnel. The best delivery walk-through I have had was at a dealership where it was done by the service department and they told customers to expect it to take about 3 hours.

 

[Onyrlef]

There's a difference in posting legitimate issues with a dealer or mfg'er and making accusations they're engaging in illegal activity or even borderline illegal activity, usually based on nothing more than the complainants supposition.
Meantime, "I haven't been on my RV's roof in 5 years, it's leaking now, so the both the dealer and mfg'er are bums" isn't likely to elicit much sympathy hereabouts either.

 

[Onyrlef]

The way that I see it, the poor quality of the majority is the fault of we buyers who are unwilling to pay what it costs to have effective quality control.

Nope, it's simply greed. Boeing fired and or sidelined QC because it cut into production and consequently profits. Many RV mfg'ers take the same approach. I'm pretty sure "We'd have made a passenger plane that wouldn't fly itself into the ground like a yard dart if you'd paid more" wasn't something the TSA was looking to hear.

 

[Kirk]

Nope, it's simply greed.

Your opinion is fine, as opinions are neither right or wrong, but I don't agree. The problem has been in the RV industry for far longer than any Boeing problems. Those who have been RVing for years know that the history of the RV industry is littered with names of companies that stuck to quality products and failed due to poor sales.

 

[rvlifer]

Sometimes that seems to be the only way.

In my years of experience, I think that RVs, more than most other high cost items, are purchased based more on price than any other factor by the majority of the customers. Since quality control is something that costs the factory a lot of money with little or no return in the RV industry, few RV manufacturers have much of it until you get into the million dollar RV market where price is no consideration. I suspect that is partly due to the fact that the majority of RV sales are to people who will only use them occasionally and do not live in them much. The way that I see it, the poor quality of the majority is the fault of we buyers who are unwilling to pay what it costs to have effective quality control.

While that does happen at dealerships far more than it should and sometimes by the factory when a dealer tries to help it's customers. I have only rarely seen the person with an issue blamed for it on RV forums that I visit. I am also sure that there are incidents where a problem was caused by the RV owner, but doubt that it happens very often and when it does, that could have been caused by a poor walk-through by the dealer personnel. The best delivery walk-through I have had was at a dealership where it was done by the service department and they told customers to expect it to take about 3 hours.

There are certainly bad customers contributing to the problem. Another part of the problem is the marketing. So much of it is deceptive at best. Much convinces unsuspecting buyers that things are better than they are.

Probably close to or more than half of the threads here have responses questioning the op. I was brutalized in my transport thread as one example. Other threads had comments about the op being a scam artist.

I disagree that opinions are not right or wrong. A lot are mild and it doesnt matter much whether they are right or wrong. Others are brutal and matter quite a lot. We are in a period where facts dont matter very much.

The rv business has always been tough. More and more companies seem to be buying into the mindset that they have to do the wrong thing to compete and some are blatantly doing illegal and immoral things to make a buck. It is definitely buyer beware.

 

[Onyrlef]

Your opinion is fine, as opinions are neither right or wrong, but I don't agree. The problem has been in the RV industry for far longer than any Boeing problems. Those who have been RVing for years know that the history of the RV industry is littered with names of companies that stuck to quality products and failed due to poor sales.

Thanks for the permission. Otherwise, by that token then, there are only two kinds of RV mfg'ers. Those that build quality RV's most can't afford and those that build affordable RV's that aren't quality.
In Robert Fulghums " Everything I Need To Know I Learned In Kindergarten" he tells of the cobbler he took a worn out pair of shoes to. When he picked the shoes up, unrepaired, inside was a wrapped cookie and a note. "If it's not worth doing, it's not worth doing right".

 

[rvlifer]

By that token then, there are only two kinds of RV mfg'ers. Those that build quality RV's most can't afford and those that build affordable RV's that aren't quality.
In Robert Fulghums " Everything I Need To Know I Learned In Kindergarten" he tells of the cobbler he took a worn out pair of shoes to. When he picked the shoes up, unrepaired, inside was a wrapped cookie and a note. "If it's not worth doing, it's not worth doing right".

Life just isnt that black and white