Some very basic questions re. Dish Satellite systems

[jymbee]

We are considering purchasing a Dish Satellite system for our Class A. After some searching around I'm still confused as  to which system might work best for us:

https://www.dishformyrv.com/bundles/

Do the more expensive systems work better (better reception) or is the price difference mainly about features?

How clear a view of the sky does one need in order to get good reception? Completely clear or will it still work in a treed location?

We've had a number of satellite systems over the years going back to the old C-Bands (still have that huge dish!) but have been pretty much out of touch since we got cable at our home.

My thought is that a portable system would be the way to go given we may want to share it between a couple of different locations. Setting the antenna up seems to be pretty straight-forward but it's not clear to me how the signal would be incorporated into our current TV/audio system. I didn't see it personally, but when we had the RV inspected before purchase the inspector when on the roof said that although it had been removed, there was still a connection to what must have been a previous satellite system. Would this likely be what we'd want to connect to somehow-- as opposed to the cable coax connection in the bay area?

 

[John Stephens]

You can break down the kinds of antennas pretty easily and realize that you get what you pay for. You have portable antennas. Separate them into the ones you have to manually adjust to find your satellite and the ones that find the satellite for you. Then you have roof mounted antennas. Again, they can be broken down into manually finding the satellite you want and those that will do it for you. Then, you have the most expensive units that can be used while you're driving on the road because they constantly will change positioning to stay in touch with the satellite.

When I bought my 2005, it had a roof mounted manually adjustable dish. I gave up trying to find the satellites that Dish uses and bought a portable that finds them for me. To me, this is important enough to spend the extra money because I can change from one channel to another that might be on a different satellite and not have to worry about repositioning the dish. My cost three years ago for the antenna and the receiver was about $400 from Camping World when they had both on sale. That was for a Winegard Pathway X2 dish and a Dish 211 VIP receiver. I got the dish for $315 and the receiver for $75 when the list on them combined was about $500. You can go cheaper and get a manual or go more expensive and get the one that constantly monitors reception while you're driving. They run about $1700 but I've seen them on sale for as low as $1200 plus installation. Up to you and how much you want to spend.

There are pros and cons for both portable and roof mount, so keep that in mind before you buy. With roof mount, you're limited to where you park regarding your reception. If you're under trees, you're not going to get a good signal. Where, with a portable and 50 ft of coax, you can set it where you want it, keeping in mind that you might want to secure it so it doesn't sprout legs and walk away. I usually cable mine with locks to the picnic table in the campsite.

Keep in mind that you don't have to have a Dish account or get contracted service when in an RV. They have a month to month plan for anyone that owns the equipment and all you have to do is choose which plan you want.

 

[zulutron]

Do the more expensive systems work better (better reception) or is the price difference mainly about features?

Not necessarily.

Though a manual setup tripod system (https://rvseniormoments.com/tech-docs/dish-tv-for-rvs/1000-2-vs-1000-4-satellite-dishes/) is the least expensive option, it can provide the best results. Tripod setups use open-faced dishes like the 1000.2 or 1000.4 that you can connect ANY dish receiver to one. However, tripods dishes can be a PITA to aim.

On the other hand, portable automatic dishes like the Tailgater and Pathway X2 are easy to set up, but only a few DISH receivers like the Wally or the VIP 211 can be used with automatic dishes. You can't connect DISH's flagship Hopper 3 DVR receiver to these.

The Wally and VIP 211 are DISH's "lesser" receivers -- they only have 1 tuner and can be turned into very limited DVRs by connecting a hard drive to the receiver.

My DISH story . . . I full time and created a home setup in my RV. I use a rooftop Winegard Travler and also carry a tripod dish in case I park under trees. I use a Hopper 3 with two Joeys which allows me to use three TVs. The Hopper 3 is a 16-tuner DVR which means I can record just about any show anytime and play it back on any TV.

Depends what you want.

How clear a view of the sky does one need in order to get good reception? Completely clear or will it still work in a treed location?

Depends. Heavy cloud cover can kill a sat signal. On the other hand, I've successfully aimed tripod dishes in very treed areas . . .

https://rvseniormoments.files.wordpress.com/2015/08/dish_aiming03.jpg

 

[Larry N.]

Do the more expensive systems work better (better reception) or is the price difference mainly about features?

Not really -- the antenna can make a big difference, but the receivers are roughly equal, in terms of reception.

How clear a view of the sky does one need in order to get good reception? Completely clear or will it still work in a treed location?

Because of the very high frequency (read short wave length) leaves can block the satellite signals, which are rather weak as such things go. However, it doesn't take a very large gap to let the antenna "see" through the trees, so clear is best, but often there are available paths through the trees, perhaps even when moving the antenna or coach just a foot or so.

Note that the further north you are, the lower your antenna must point, since the satellites are over the equator.

Then, you have the most expensive units that can be used while you're driving on the road because they constantly will change positioning to stay in touch with the satellite.

To the best of my knowledge, only certain dome-type antennas offer this. I'm not aware of any regular dish types that work in motion. But the automatic dishes often can see multiple satellites at the same time, where all the domes I know of can only see one at a time.

I'd also note that the dome types are more susceptible to loss of signal from the rain, since the actual antenna inside the dome is smaller than the others.

 

[John From Detroit]

Sat TV 101.D (Dish only)

The "Dish" is a reflector the bigger the dish the more signal it can REFLECT into the LNB (Ths stronger the signal all else being equal) Price is not a factor only the size of the dish.

A Tripod mounted "Dish" can often be set up with a clear view when the RV's ROOF is tree blocked.

Trees WILL block the signal

Domes and most "enclosed" systems have a very small reflector plus they can only see ONE satellite at a time.. And Dish uses 3 so if you are watching one show and your lifemate another. might not work.
NOTE: A roof top dome can record while going down the highway at least some models.

A Regular "House" type Dish on a tripod has a triple LNB so it can see all 3 sats at the same time.

 

[Gary RV_Wizard]

How clear a view of the sky does one need in order to get good reception? Completely clear or will it still work in a treed location?

It is very hard to describe a clear path in human terms.  Only the actual path followed by the radio wave need be clear, and even a single leaf can interfere.  However, it is entirely possible that a tiny gap in the foliage will let the signal get through.  I've had a usable signal when the day is calm and have it go away altogether when a slight breeze starts up.  In general, figure that you will need a wide clearing in the direction of the satellite. What direction is that, you say?  There are smart phone apps that will enable you to locate the appropriate satellite from your campsite, and you MAY be able to move the RV or set up the dish such that it can "see" through any nearby trees. If you don't have a smart phone or tablet, you can get approximate directions (azimuth and  tilt) from a website.

 

[jymbee]

With roof mount, you're limited to where you park regarding your reception. If you're under trees, you're not going to get a good signal. Where, with a portable and 50 ft of coax, you can set it where you want it, keeping in mind that you might want to secure it so it doesn't sprout legs and walk away. I usually cable mine with locks to the picnic table in the campsite.

I think portable will work best for us but I had thought about the potential of it "walking away". I tend to watch some late night TV and often click on the news early in the morning. Having to put the dish away and then reset things up wouldn't be very convenient and I wondered just what the actual risk of theft would be. Of course one could just be trusting and have no issues for a dozen camp sites then have everything disappear at the next one. Probably a cable wouldn't be an absolute deterrent but might dissuade a spur-of-the-moment thief. I suppose I could just tie out dog near it to stand guard-- but he's more likely to lick a stranger to death then threaten 'em.

Keep in mind that you don't have to have a Dish account or get contracted service when in an RV. They have a month to month plan for anyone that owns the equipment and all you have to do is choose which plan you want.

Not sure I understand... Wouldn't the month to month plan have to come from Dish?

 

[Alfa38User]

Not sure I understand... Wouldn't the month to month plan have to come from Dish?

It does!! AFIK Direct TV does not have an equivalent plan.


https://www.dish.com/programming/packages/pay-as-you-go/

 

[jymbee]

My DISH story . . . I full time and created a home setup in my RV. I use a rooftop Winegard Travler and also carry a tripod dish in case I park under trees. I use a Hopper 3 with two Joeys which allows me to use three TVs. The Hopper 3 is a 16-tuner DVR which means I can record just about any show anytime and play it back on any TV.

Depends what you want.

Impressive! There's a part of me that's tempted to go "all in" like that myself, but at least for this first effort I'll probably restrain myself and go with a more modest option. 

 

[ferfer]

Jymbee,

In addition to the antenna dish or dome you need to contract service with Dish and get receivers.  Dish has the Wally or Hopper with Joey.  The Wally is what is offered in the referenced bundles but I think not what you want. The Hopper 3 and Joey are the what is current and desired.  The Wally can not record anything.  The Hopper 3 will record 16 shows at same time with 2T storage.  Depends on what you want. 

Then there are the channel packages you need to study to find the one that is best for your viewing preference.  If you go Pay As You Go, you will have to buy the receivers and pay full programming rate- since you do not sign up for 2 year contract you do not get the initial discount. 

We are in the process of upgrading our satellite system and thinking of changing from DirecTV to Dish for house and motorhome. (Customer service (CS) for either not a positive).

Replacing the roof mounted Dome antenna with an RF Mogul Eagle antenna ( https://rfmogul.com/eagle_dish_network.html ).  This is turning out to be the easy part.

If you mention Hopper 3 and RV - Dish CS melt down and tell you it will not work and Wally only.  Dish will not support the Hopper 3 receiver and Joey for RVs, only the Wally.  Also appears Dish allows one Hopper 3 per customer so some creative talking may be required (for guess house?) if 2nd required.

For those who have the Hopper 3 and Joeys in your RV how did you convince Dish.  Did you buy instead of lease? 

Jennifer

 

[shorts1]

We bought our own because Dish kept telling us that we couldn?t use it in an RV. And that was in 2016.

Vicki

 

[zulutron]

If you mention Hopper 3 and RV - Dish CS melt down and tell you it will not work and Wally only.

Dish will not support the Hopper 3 receiver and Joey for RVs, only the Wally.  Also appears Dish allows one Hopper 3 per customer so some creative talking may be required (for guess house?) if 2nd required.

A lot of mis-information . . . first, if you want a Hopper in your RV, find a local sat installer who will do it. That may take a bit of looking because dealers generally don't like working in RVs, but it's better than going to DISH directly. The CSRs there generally follow a script that says "Wally good, Hopper bad" for RVs. So go to a local installer.

Generally, there is no need for two Hopper 3s. That's 32 tuners! However, people do get that 2nd Hopper 3 just in case their other Hopper 3 fails. And, yes, you would have to purchase a 2nd Hopper 3. When the Hopper 3 first came out in 2016, DISH wouldn't allow you to have two Hopper 3s. Now it appears to be different.

For those who have the Hopper 3 and Joeys in your RV how did you convince Dish.  Did you buy instead of lease?

I've had a Hopper in my RV since 2012, so it was no big deal. However, if you're getting a Hopper for the first time, contact a local DISH installer, not DISH directly. And I lease my one Hopper 3.

 

[ferfer]

Vicki,

Thanks, I was coming to the conclusion purchase is the way to get the Hopper 3 and joeys in the motorhome but confirmation is priceless.  We will check with the installer prior to final decision.

We need a Hopper 3 in house and one in motorhome = 2 Hopper 3 + joeys

Jennifer

 

[zulutron]

We need a Hopper 3 in house and one in motorhome = 2 Hopper 3 + joeys

Why don't you just get one Hopper 3 in your house and then move it back and forth between your house and RV?

Then there's no need to buy one.

 

[NY_Dutch]

Note that leasing your equipment from Dish requires a 2-year contract and your account will not be eligible for pay-as-you-go starting and stopping. PAYGO requires all purchased equipment...

We have two purchased 3-tuner Hopper 2's and one Joey, one Hopper is permanently installed in our fulltime motorhome, and the other is installed in our Adirondack family vacation cottage. The Hopper 2's, as are the Hopper 3's, are equipped with built-in Sling capability that lets us stream our programming, including recordings, to anywhere we have good Internet service from the cottage Hopper. With that setup, sometimes we don't bother using our tripod mounted triple LNB dish for overnight stops, although it normally only takes me about 15 minutes to set up and aim it.

 

[NY_Dutch]

How clear a view of the sky does one need in order to get good reception? Completely clear or will it still work in a treed location?

The first photo below is a treed location where aiming our dish at the three western arc satellites Dish uses would have been very difficult, although hitting one or maybe two of them would have been possible with enough fiddling. Fortunately for me, the second photo shows a view of the three eastern arc satellites Dish uses from the same spot. Having that choice has meant the difference between getting service or not at a number of locations.

 

[jymbee]

The first photo below is a treed location where aiming our dish at the three western arc satellites Dish uses would have been very difficult, although hitting one or maybe two of them would have been possible with enough fiddling. Fortunately for me, the second photo shows a view of the three eastern arc satellites Dish uses from the same spot. Having that choice has meant the difference between getting service or not at a number of locations.

Very illustrative images! I suppose campgrounds frown on chainsaw use...  ;D

 

[NY_Dutch]

Very illustrative images! I suppose campgrounds frown on chainsaw use...  ;D

Those are screen captures from the "DishPointer" app I use to find the best location for my dish on campsites. And oh yeah, campgrounds very much frown on chainsaw use!   

 

[zulutron]

Note that leasing your equipment from Dish requires a 2-year contract and your account will not be eligible for pay-as-you-go starting and stopping. PAYGO requires all purchased equipment...

We have two purchased 3-tuner Hopper 2's . . .

Yeah, I purchased a Hopper 2 also. However, we leased our current Hopper 3 two years ago, and our Hopper 2 has been in permanent storage ever since, a boat anchor.

Since I full time, I didn't have a problem with DISH's 2-year contract requirement. In fact, even I didn't full time, the requirement would not be a big deal.

 

[NY_Dutch]

Yeah, I purchased a Hopper 2 also. However, we leased our current Hopper 3 two years ago, and our Hopper 2 has been in permanent storage ever since, a boat anchor.

Since I full time, I didn't have a problem with DISH's 2-year contract requirement. In fact, even I didn't full time, the requirement would not be a big deal.

"jymbee", the OP, was talking about a month-to-month PAYGO account, which of course does not allow leased equipment. Later on Jennifer, "ferfer" brought in the need for both RV and house use, where a contract could be used, so I thought it worthwhile covering all the bases. We started with a Dish PAYGO account as part-timers with a single VIP211k, and then later on upgraded to two Hopper 2's. Later as fulltimers, we found it worked well for us if we left one of the Hoppers permanently hooked up at our "exit plan" Adirondack cottage for use with DishAnywhere from the road, but we're still on the same PAYGO "Outdoor" account.